Handwriting just not the same.. nor is memory.

[ppearl214]

Hi all,

Ok, I'll get this going... I have noticed, for me... that not only is my short-term memory outta whack, so is my handwriting.  If I write a check (sorry, not writing you all blank checks... )..... or signing my name on a document or such... I have to take an extra minute before the pen touches the paper.  Seems sometimes my mind, in concentrating on writing something, moves faster than my hand.... and may turn out as "chicken-scratch"  handwriting or I make too many hand-written errors and have to scratch out what I wrote.

You all run into this... or other cognitive issues besides the 2 I noted?

Phyl

[Jeff]

I have these issues too. I used to have a great memory. Now, I have had to try to get into the habit of using tools to help me remember. Part of my responsibility at work is kind of acting as a "help desk" for computer and network problems. It used to be that people would tell me a when we met in the hallway, the things that they need help with, I would remember.  Now, if I don't write them down or record them electronically, I forget.   So I use more tools to remember.

My fine motor control is lacking too. Thankfully, I am right-handed and my left side was affected by my stroke/brain resection. But typing now is a joke. I just can't touch type at all - not that I was very good before.

Jeff

[LADavid]

Same here, Phyl.  When I go to sign something, I have to think about how to do it.  Once I get started, it's fine.  But it takes a moment to get started.  I also have this thing with mouse clicks.  I pause before I click it because I occasionally don't remember what I'm doing.  And as far as the hand-writing -- I used to get compliments on it -- now it's a mess.  And one other thing that really has me bothered -- either they made the questions on Jeopardy tougher after my surgery or there's something wrong with my memory.  I used to be able to "run the board".  Now I'm lucky to get an answer or two right.

David

[Mark]

Handwriting - I would say mine has slipped as well both in terms in readibility as well as errors. Similar sense of the brain moving faster than the hand. However, I'm not convinced it's AN related as much as the simple fact that my practice of writing has been reduced to signing my name ( rarely a problem) or writing checks ( not comfortable with on line banking yet ). I think we all use computers so much that we lose the ability to stay in sync with writing. Something for everyone to consider as well as opposed to immediately assuming it's AN related. It may be something increasingly common in non AN patients as well 

Memory - sometimes I can't recall a name or some other fact on demand like I used to but it pops in later. Don't know if that is AN related or a factor of age and life stress

Mark

[lori67]

David,

I think that since Jeopardy has a teen week and a kids week, they should have AN week and allow those of us a little slower than before a few extra seconds to ring in!

Phyl, yes, my handwriting has turned to chicken scratch!  Keep in mind, I went to Catholic school all my life and had to take Penmanship lessons up until I was in 8th grade so it used to be pretty darn near perfect before my surgery.  Now I can barely read it myself!

And what was the other question you asked?  I can't remember....

Lori

[ppearl214]

ah, m'dear Mark... see, like you, I do much computer keyboard work as well.... but... I do an exceptional amt of handwriting as well (ex: I was voted Secretary for the Disabilities commission that I am on... thus, I handwrite the meeting notes, etc)..... I've notice my cursive-handwriting totally downhill. Block print handwriting is fairly ok... but my cursive is still way off.

Like you, I'm not totally convinced that the AN (and treatment) did this to me, but I am a firm believer that it is a contributing factor to it...... to what %, I have no clue.

Just my take on it.
Phyl

Handwriting - I would say mine has slipped as well both in terms in readibility as well as errors. Similar sense of the brain moving faster than the hand. However, I'm not convinced it's AN related as much as the simple fact that my practice of writing has been reduced to signing my name ( rarely a problem) or writing checks ( not comfortable with on line banking yet ). I think we all use computers so much that we lose the ability to stay in sync with writing. Something for everyone to consider as well as opposed to immediately assuming it's AN related. It may be something increasingly common in non AN patients as well 

Memory - sometimes I can't recall a name or some other fact on demand like I used to but it pops in later. Don't know if that is AN related or a factor of age and life stress

Mark

[Raydean]

Hi Phyl

I truly believe that in some cases handwriting is directly related to the AN, either due to size and or location.  Chet's handwriting changed in the last months prior to discovery of his tumor, it was steadily declining.  Gee, we missed that clue!!!  So easy to blame it on being in a hurry or being tired.  He lost most of his small motor skills after surgery which included handwriting.  On the plus side over time he was able to print with his other hand, very readable, and to print with his tumor side hand, tho it wasn't as neat, but very readable.  I stress print, because he never regained the ability  to write in cursive.

As to your Secretary notes.  Isn't that why they make laptops? <g>

Hugs
Raydean

[Nancy Drew]

Mostly I have problems with typing.  Sometimes it takes me re-reading my posts many times over just to see if I have made sense.  And, then once I have posted, I realize that I didn't make sense even after re-reading my post several times.  And my spelling in getting really bad.  I think some of my stuff is anxiety related because I am two weeks away from treatment.  Sort of reminds me when I was pregnant.  Right towards the end of my pregnancy, I had to quit writing checks altogether.  I would go to the grocery store and instead of writing the check out to Albertsons, I would write Pay to the Order of:  Grocery Store.  Today when I went to pick up my car at the shop, the woman gave me the receipt to sign, and I just put it in my purse.  Felt sort of stupid when she said, "That is the one you sign and give back to me, and then I will give you the one you can keep."  Have caught myself doing that a lot lately.  I used to be proud of my hand writing, but now I feel like "Sybil" with the multiple personalities (David, Sally Fields was great in that one!).  Here's to writinghand and yromem!  Nancy

[leapyrtwins]

My handwriting and memory is fine - my trouble is typing and speaking 

I find that my brain just doesn't keep pace with my fingers when I'm typing or with my mouth when I'm speaking.

I often think one word, but say another when speaking.  And when typing, although I know what I want to "say" my fingers just don't move fast enough anymore to put it all down.  I've always been a fast, accurate typist, so that's not the issue.  But post op I have to re-read everything I've typed to make sure I haven't left out entire words or typed one word when I meant another 

Jan

[mindyandy]

OOOOh OOOOH me me
I think I posted sloppy handwriting before....I think.... ...sorry my memory is terrible. Yes I am in the same boat....I even have a hard time with spelling anymore.
I used to be somewhat inteligent.....I THINK MY TUMOR SUCKED UP PART OF MY BRAIN....LOL
Yes my handwriting has gotten sooooo bad that I dont even reconize it ....WHERES THE SPELL CHECK?

[jerseygirl]

Hi,

It is great that we now have a new section for cognitive/emotional issues but I hate to say that handwriting is considered a motor (movement) issue, not a cognitive one. Memory is a cognitive issue, however, and you can have one without the other or both at the same time.

After the first surgery I had both handwriting and memory difficulties but fully recovered years later as evidenced bv the fact that I started graduate school a few years ago and did not need extended time on tests. It is very paperwork extensive and I could accomplish anything. However, after the second surgery, I was back to the hemiparesis where I could not even grip a cup at the beginning and my name took minutes to write. I improved tremendously but still write much slower than normal now; it comes out much sloppier and I am too tired to continue after about 10 sentences. However, I do not have memory issues. I kept organizing everybody in the house, never forgot school lunches and reminded everybody about the upcoming deadlines.  I should add that my leg was affected as well and I still limp if I skip my strengthening exercises.

           Eve

[LADavid]

Lori

I agree!  AN week on Jeopardy.  One question (answer) 30 minutes to ring-in -- if of course any of the contestants recalled why they are there.  By the way, something off the subject, I stood in for Alex Trebec on the Jeopardy stage when I was on the Bucket List (regularly standing in for Jack Nicholson).  It was one of the greatest experiences I've had.

David

[sgerrard]

You guys need to read The Brain that Changes Itself, by Norman Doidge, M.D.

There is a section where he describes an interesting therapy effect, and a theory to explain it. When people practice speaking, such as memorizing speeches, their handwriting improves. If someone does lots of handwriting, especially nice italic cursive, not just scribbling, their speech will improve as well.

The theory is that some section of the brain is dedicated to the task of sequencing rapid motor movements, ones where there is not enough time to do all the adjustments on the fly. Both handwriting and speaking are examples that require bursts of very rapid and precise movements, all under the control of nerves firing, of course.

My notion is that since the AN can mess with our speech to some degree, it forces the "rapid movement sequencer" to go through some adaptations as well, thus messing with our handwriting at the same time. I like this better than the idea that I use a computer too much or that I'm just getting older, although both of those are true too.

Eve, though it is a motor issue, it is at least a high order motor issue, and I think we can interpret Cognitive for the purposes of this board as meaning "brain thingy", rather than a more precise definition. 

Steve

[Brendalu]

I used to pride myself with my handwriting.  Not anymore.  I even forget how to spell my last name and that is a problem when you are signing a credit card receipt!

Brenda

[GRACE1]

Steve,

Thanks for the book recommendation.  I looked it up on the Internet.  It looks very interesting, and I can't wait to read it. 

Grace