Author Topic: the new health bill?  (Read 117473 times)

grega

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #165 on: April 02, 2010, 11:01:51 am »
Jan ......... just envision yourself sitting back on a nice beach somewhere, wearing a nice panama hat  8)   (or even one of Steve's hats on a cooler beach?  ::) ).....  holding a tall cool lemonade  ..... and thinking .... NO ONE is gonna bother me today!  8)

I once heard that advice in order to deal with one's "ex" ......  something to do with positive relaxation daydreaming.

Keep   ;D -ing!

Greg

(Phyl .... are you all-hearing .... all-seeing .... and all-knowing? .... I thought so!)
1.5 cm AN retrosig 11/04.
Drs. Henry Brem & Michael Holliday @ Johns Hopkins, Baltimore
SSD right. Tinnitus big-time, only when thinking of it.
BAHA since 7/20/10 ... really helps w/ hearing, specially after programming in subliminal message: "Hey, don't listen to your tinnitus!"

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7449
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #166 on: April 02, 2010, 11:25:43 am »
(Phyl .... are you all-hearing .... all-seeing .... and all-knowing? .... I thought so!)

  ;) More than ya know, m'dear!  Just call me the ol....er...young, wise one!  ;D  Happy Easter to you!  Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #167 on: April 02, 2010, 11:37:50 am »
Rein me in, Pooter - I'm starting to get a little "testy" here  ;D

Jan

I think you're doing just fine.  I think it's high time that we all get a little testy with Washington so they know we mean business.  I'm tired of the taxes going up and up and up...I'm tired of the intrusion going up and up and up.  What makes us (partially) the best country in the world (my opinion) is that we've always enjoyed a semi-limited Federal government.  They were there for the most part to do certain things we needed to do as a country (wars, intelligence [some might argue this point.. ;)], military, border security, etc..) but for the most part they left the people alone to live their lives and make (or break) their own way in life.  It seems more than ever we have an over-reaching Federal government that is bent on controlling every aspect of our lives while at the same time taking the money of those that have it and giving it (without regard to merit) to those that don't.  Those that don't have absolutely no incentive to work hard and EARN their way because they know the Federal government will provide them with everything they want..  The healthcare law (to bring it back to topic at hand) is just another intrusion by the Federal government to tell us all what we MUST do, how we MUST do it, when we MUST do it, with whom we MUST do it, and oh by the way their going to take money from anything breathing so they can give it to those that aren't willing to earn it themselves.  Like others, I'm all for helping someone with a hand up for a short time.. however, I'm flatly against working hard to get everything that I have (which isn't much) only to have it taken away by the Federal government and give it to someone who habitually takes and never gives.

So, by all means, get testy.  Get mad..  Above all else, be polite and vote all the varmints out any chance you get.

*parachutes off his soapbox in the bully pullpit*

Regards,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

Jayson

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #168 on: April 02, 2010, 11:49:05 am »
Jan, no need to get testy, my first sentence was meant to be taken more tongue and cheek. (I should have added a few more winky faces)  ;) ;) ;)

I hear what you are saying.  Governing against the will of the people is never a good thing.  I have many, many concerns that this bill won't provide what it says it will provide.  I'm also hopeful many people will be able to get treatments that they may have not been able to receive in the past.  Only time will tell.

I agree that America is a free country and we have choices, but lets face it, the government tells us all the time what we can and can't do.  Trust me on this; I'm a regulator for the US Gov't.  :'(

Greg,

The heart of what I was getting at in my last post was this:  I have no idea if I'm for or against this bill.  I've heard  well articulated arguments for and against it.  What I'm most concerned about with all of the rhetoric is more philosophical.  The arguments against this bill seem to fall into the catergory of how this will effect me and mine.  By this I mean there is an attitude of "I'd love to help those in need as long as it does not effect me in any way."  I'm not speaking about anyone specifically, its just the overall attitude I'm talking about.  I know we all pay taxes and I think we pay far too much in taxes for ridiculous projects,  but now we are talking about human beings and I don't think the decisions should rest solely in the area of finance.  Is this bill the answer?  Maybe, maybe not  but a wise man once said,"love you neighbor as yourself".  Try to imagine a country/world that embraced that mentality.  In a small way, I see bills like this as a step in that direction.  I know, I know its not the government's job to legislate morality and we shouldn't force people to do anything.  Like I said...its philosophical.
Diagnosed 1.5cm AN  right ear 2/09
Middle Fossa 3/18/09 at House Ear Clinic
Dr. Brackman Shwartz and Stefan.
Complete Hearing loss in right ear
Other side effects were minimal.  Doing just fine!

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #169 on: April 02, 2010, 12:01:45 pm »
Jayson,

Food for thought..  Instead of paying for this bill by taxing us more and adding to the current debt load, why not get some of the money from these "rediculous projects" and put it towards healthcare for the truly needy?

Along the same vein, what in the sam hill does taking over the student loan program have to do with healthcare?  There are so many provisions in this bill that have NOTHING to do with the underlying stated goals of the law; to reduce the cost of medical care, to get insurance/help to those that can't afford it, and to make the system "better"?  I just don't get it..  I fail to realize how this new law will do those things without breaking the back of every able-bodies working individual.

Regards,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

Jayson

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #170 on: April 02, 2010, 12:23:17 pm »
Brian aka Pooter(love that name btw)

I've really enjoyed your perspective on the health care issue.  I love it when people are able to deliver passionate, articulate reasons for their beliefs.  Thanks.

Like I've said before, I don't know what the new bill will do for/to us.  I don't think anyone does.  So, if your "food for thought" is the best solution, then I'm all for it.  However,  I'm less concerned with the mechanics of the bill as I am with the mentality of America. I do not believe that majority of poor Americans are taking advantage of the system and are lazy.  Quite the opposite really.  I also don't think the mentality of "pick yourself up by your own bootstaps" works for everyone. We need to address poverty not just with charity, but the issues that keeps generations of people in it. I just think the solutions to the majority of our problems could be solved if we considered others as we do ourselves. 
Diagnosed 1.5cm AN  right ear 2/09
Middle Fossa 3/18/09 at House Ear Clinic
Dr. Brackman Shwartz and Stefan.
Complete Hearing loss in right ear
Other side effects were minimal.  Doing just fine!

grega

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #171 on: April 02, 2010, 01:28:20 pm »
Thanks Jayson, specially for that good thought in your last sentence.  Please send it to every person in Congress who voted for the bill, asking why they didn't consider other decent and resasonable solutions to this country's health care "problem" from those who voted against it .... and why they didn't listen to constituents who, in numbers so great we'll never realize, voiced their opinions that they didn't want the bill.

I realize you'll not get many to answer, or you might get generic response letters, but it's worth a try. 

BTW .... glad you're "doing just fine " since your AN removal about a year ago!

Greg
1.5 cm AN retrosig 11/04.
Drs. Henry Brem & Michael Holliday @ Johns Hopkins, Baltimore
SSD right. Tinnitus big-time, only when thinking of it.
BAHA since 7/20/10 ... really helps w/ hearing, specially after programming in subliminal message: "Hey, don't listen to your tinnitus!"

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #172 on: April 02, 2010, 01:49:31 pm »
Jayson,

A bill this massive and radical change to the current healthcare system should be understood BEFORE it's passed.  Pelosi had it backwards when she said that we had to pass it to find out what was in it.

I'm with you... compassionate solutions to problems without breaking the back of everything decent about this country.  I don't think it's the job of the Federal government to provide that assistance; rather at the state level.  Their "one size fits all" mentality to solving social issues is astounding to me.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that all or even a majority of people who need assistance are abusing it... But, the number of people that ARE abusing it are causing the rest of us to have to pay more..  Our federal money being spent on the "war on poverty" has increased something like 400% since it started and we're no better off than before; still at the same percentage of people that are "poor"..  So, if they're not going to actually solve the problem or make a significant dent in it, give that money back to the workers and businesses that can actually help by spending money on goods and services or hiring more people to their business..

I agree we need to address poverty with not only charity but the problems that cause poverty and keeps people in it.. But, making the people that have a little bit of money poor so that you can give it to fight "poverty" doesn't seem to work in my book.

Most people that I know will gladly give money to churches, associations, etc... in order to help give assistance to the poor.  I don't think it's the Federal government's place to do that for me or anyone else.  They should just get out of the way, let us keep more of our money so that we CAN help those that need it.

Before too long, if this mentality in Washington keeps going the way that it is, many of us will be "the poor" asking for assistance... Maybe that's the goal of some in Washington...

Regards,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

Jim Scott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7241
  • 1943-2020 Please keep Jim's family in your hearts
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #173 on: April 02, 2010, 03:22:51 pm »
Hi, Jayson ~

I hope you're comfortable because this might take awhile.  I also hope those interested have a good supply of popcorn handy.  ;)

Assuming you've followed this lengthy thread, you must be well aware that I've attempted to present some facts as well as my opinion regarding the 'ObamaCare' bill  (now law) that is of great interest to AN patients (for obvious reasons) and should be of interest to all Americans because, unlike some huge, expensive government programs of the past intended to 'correct' some real or perceived flaw in our society, this one includes a provision that every American citizen is required to purchase health insurance that meets a 'government standard' and employers are required, by law, to offer health care insurance to their employees.  Failure to meet these requirements is punishable by hefty fines.  Some Americans, even if they have every intention of purchasing health insurance, balk at the federal government demanding they do so and being subject to fines imposed by that government.  The use of the dreaded IRS to enforce the requirement rankles some of us who believe that government should work for it's citizens and not the other way around. 

Then there is the enormous cost of implementing this law.  Not only will we pay a lot more in taxes to do what this program now demands but even those won't be enough to pay the billions and billions this program will cost.  While you may be quite willing to have even more of your income taken by the government, some of us are not as sanguine about that, considering the heavy burden we now bear with federal, state and local taxes.  This includes income tax, Social Security tax, state income taxes (for some, including me), local property taxes (on both home and vehicles, in my state), as well as state and local sales taxes.  Few working people consider themselves under-taxed.  When this kind of law is proposed, often the politicians will claim that they'll 'tax the rich' to pay for it or in the case of ObamaCare, 'root out waste and fraud' in Medicare.  I've been around long enough to know from experience that there are never enough 'rich' to significantly cover the cost and that every major government program in the past i. e. Social Security, Medicare, has cost 10 to 20 times the original estimate.  Our federal deficit is now almost 13 Trillion dollars!  This law will add many more trillions to that debt.  As I'm sure you realize, this is dangerous to the U.S. economy and not something we can ignore because that stratospheric level of federal debt will eventually have serious financial ramifications for every American, not just 'the rich', and it's right around the corner, not decades away.     

In my opinion, the corrupt manner in which this law was passed is a stain on our country's history and the politicians that were complicit in passing it.  Bribes and special 'deals' for specific states, closed-door, one-party meetings and politicians demonizing ordinary citizens who opposed this bill at public rallies are not the way a democratic government does the people's business. Millions of Americans feel they have lost control of their government and that no one in Washington cares what the people want.  This perception (accurate, in my opinion) is, first, a bit frightening, then the concern turns to anger and resentment.  I believe this resentment will be seen at the polls this November 2nd and I suspect that even some 'good' politicians will be 'retired' due to the public outrage over the way this bill was passed into law and the unconstitutional provision it includes (mandatory health insurance coverage).   Of course, I could be wrong - but I doubt it.

Frankly, what interested me most about your prior comments was your moral view of the rationale for this government-run program.  Let me hasten to add that I think your view as it applies to the needy is commendable and I won't dispute it - but I will make some comments on that issue.  I know something about Christian charity and the teachings of Jesus.   

I'm a lifelong Christian and currently a Deacon in my (Protestant, evangelical) church.  I'm in charge of our benevolence mission.  I oversee thousands of dollars given (we don't lend, we give) to those in need, both inside and outside of our congregation.  We have a very generous congregation and a few wealthy members that, if asked - and I have - will immediately write a personal check for thousands of dollars to a needy individual that they may have never met but that needs help.  This is Christian charity and follows Jesus' teaching on giving and caring for our fellow man. I agree that the world would be a better place if we all followed that teaching.  That is why churches have missions and 'outreach' programs.  However, the reality is that society does not really follow that teaching and while most people have good intentions, Americans, as a whole, are not voluntarily going to pay for other people's medical care.  I understand this because most of us are middle class and with taxes and prices being as high as they are, we simply can't afford it. Here is where we may part company on this issue.

Although anyone can receive medical care without having insurance at any ER (and many folks do, every day) I do not subscribe to the view that , generally speaking, health care is some kind of 'right' and because there are poor people and/or those without health insurance in America, often by their own choice, our government has the constitutional, legal authority to impose on it's citizens a Draconian health care program that will raise our high taxes even higher and very likely diminish the quality of our superb health care system as well as have many other unintended consequences, as these gigantic government programs always do.  This is, in a roundabout way, forced charity that makes some folks and many politicians feel good but does great harm in many ways, such as causing economic hardship when the U.S. economy craters due to our unsustainable national debt and the doctors that will retire early, rejecting government bureaucrats deciding their incomes and dictating their practice of medicine, thus causing a greater strain on a system already being strained by the addition of millions of new patients.  I could go on but I trust you get the point.

In the final analysis, I believe your philosophy is sound but the government's role in our democratic republic has been badly misunderstood by many.  Jesus stated (Mark 14: 7) that "the poor will always be with you' as a way of reminding us what is truly important.  Jesus was very concerned with the poor and helped many but I cannot see a relationship between personal charity and a massive government program that takes, by law and with serious penalties for disobeying that law, money from one group of citizens to pay for other citizens needs.  We've done this for almost 50 years with welfare programs - and the poverty rate remains static.  Our taxes pay for unemployment benefits, which I - and most Americans - support.  Our taxes pay for federal and state Medicaid programs that help the indigent with their medical bills.  People my age receive Medicare, which will soon be cut and restricted to help pay for the costs of ObamaCare (but won't come close to covering them).  My point is that our federal government does many things for the 'needy' using other people's (tax) money but cannot take the place of personal charity and caring people. History proves that.  While we all have good intentions, using the government to perform tasks best left to the private sector is financially unsustainable and, if history is any guide, a potential failure that will render unintended negative consequences such as decreased medical innovation, long waits for medical procedures and a general diminishing of health care for all.  I don't believe that some folks feeling better about 'helping the poor' (because they pay taxes) is worth that and I seriously doubt that Jesus would approve of 'Caesar' (Matthew 21: 21) doing what we, as individuals, should be doing.  The reality remains that government rules by force, not moral law. 

Jim
4.5 cm AN diagnosed 5/06.  Retrosigmoid surgery 6/06.  Follow-up FSR completed 10/06.  Tumor shrinkage & necrosis noted on last MRI.  Life is good. 

Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is.  The way we cope with it is what makes the difference.

4cm in Pacific Northwest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1324
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #174 on: April 02, 2010, 09:27:30 pm »
May I distract you all, for a moment, with this famous artist’s illustration?
http://www.normanrockwellvt.com/Plates/GoldenRulePlate.jpg

Here is some information about his work
http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2009/04/28/art-literature/real-picture-norman-rockwells-studio.html

He is famous for his painting of the four freedoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms_(Norman_Rockwell)

This painting about one freedom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Worship_(painting)

Pick your own website to see the painting in more detail.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&resnum=0&q=freedom%20of%20worship%20rockwell&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Please know that NO one religion is depicted here in the painting by Rockwell- as dominant … and that ALL are welcome here on the forum.

Here is also a link to the golden rule to which you can choose your own website  to view in more detail.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=golden%20rule%20norman%20rockwell&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

A picture is worth a thousand words- isn’t it?

Peace  :)

DHM
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 11:40:15 pm by 4cm in Pacific Northwest »
4cm Left, 08/22/07 R/S 11+ hr surgery Stanford U, Dr. Robert Jackler, Dr. Griffith Harsh, Canadian fellow Assist. Dr. Sumit Agrawal. SSD, 3/6 on HB facial scale, stick-on-eyeweight worked, 95% eye function@ 6 months. In neuromuscular facial retraining. Balance regained! Recent MRI -tumor receded!

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7449
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #175 on: April 03, 2010, 06:00:27 am »
well, baseball season is commencing and can't wait to see how the Boston Red Sox do this year, especially against the "Evil Empire" :)

*sits back with fresh made bowl of fat-free popcorn*

"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Lizard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #176 on: April 03, 2010, 07:57:38 am »
well, baseball season is commencing and can't wait to see how the Boston Red Sox do this year, especially against the "Evil Empire" :)

*sits back with fresh made bowl of fat-free popcorn*



Yay...Go socks! I'll be glued to the TV tomorrow night with you!!!!  Probably with some sort of Easter candy  ;D
Left AN 2.5CM,retrosigmoid 11/2008, second surgery to repair CSF leak. 
Headaches began immediately.  Dr. Ducic occipital nerve resection, December 2011!!!!!

"When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on"
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

Jayson

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #177 on: April 03, 2010, 08:50:13 am »
DHM,

Thanks for those links; I really enjoyed that.  However, note in my posts that I never mentioned or promoted any one religion over the other.

Jim, thank you for your perspectives on the health care bill.  I think you and I are of like mind on many of the governmental issues at hand in this post.  Like I've said, I don't know if I can truly be in favor of the bill as it stands.  I am, however, sympathetic to the bill, and, yes, its because of faith issues.

I agree that Jesus spoke often about the poor and how we should treat them.  I believe you and I are in agreement on this issue.  However, have a look at the rules God set up for the year of Jubilee in Lev. 25: 8-25.  for all practical purposes, during this time, God was the "federal gov't" for the people of Israel.  Its interesting, for a Christian at least, to see the stark contrast of that system compared to our current system.

Now, am I suggesting that we adopt a system like Jubilee today?  No, because I don't think that would be possible for many reasons.  However, its these passages, combined with what Jesus said about the poor that makes me sympathetic towards this bill.  Like I've said before, my mind is not made up on the bill/law per se, but I like the mentality behind it.

Thanks everyone for this discussion. I've very much enjoyed reading all of the perspectives of my AN friends on this forum.  I hope everyone is doing well with their AN issues and I look forward to leaning on you all in the future!!!

Blessings
Jayson
Diagnosed 1.5cm AN  right ear 2/09
Middle Fossa 3/18/09 at House Ear Clinic
Dr. Brackman Shwartz and Stefan.
Complete Hearing loss in right ear
Other side effects were minimal.  Doing just fine!

lori67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3113
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #178 on: April 03, 2010, 09:13:36 am »
DHM -

Maybe you need to post a link regarding treatment for carpal tunnel syndrome - I'm pretty sure Jim must have it after all that typing!   ;)  Just teasing, Jim!

And Phyl, will your Red Sox be playing in kayaks?  Or maybe with masks/snorkels?  I hear the flooding is pretty bad up that way!

Lori
Right 3cm AN diagnosed 1/2007.  Translab resection 2/20/07 by Dr. David Kaylie and Dr. Karl Hampf at Baptist Hospital in Nashville.  R side deafness, facial nerve paralysis.  Tarsorraphy and tear duct cauterization 5/2007.  BAHA implant 11/8/07. 7-12 nerve jump 9/26/08.

leapyrtwins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10826
  • I am a success story!
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #179 on: April 03, 2010, 10:38:15 am »
This is one of the wildest threads I've followed in a long time.

Do you realize we've gone from healthcare reform to food to musicians to Dr. Seuss to religion to carpal tunnel to baseball players in kayaks?

And I know I've missed at least 3 or 4 topics in this list.

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways