ANA Discussion Forum
AN Community => AN Community => Topic started by: 4cm in Pacific Northwest on March 22, 2010, 08:52:40 pm
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I am really trying to figure this one out. What does it mean exactly?
Will some of my ANA buddies finally get coverage for Baha's, Botox, facial therapy... and those college kids coverage too?
I do not know about anyone else but I am trying to figure out all it entails. It is SOOH confusing.! :-\ Will people in my ANA group who won't see a specialist because of lack of fund and insurance now -will be able to. Does this mean that insurance companies cannot discriminate a patient because they had an acoustic neuroma before?
I guess I see the headlines (in the USA, Canada and everywhere else on the glove tonight) but I just don't understand how and when this bill comes into play.
CNN does not even explain this ... really...
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/22/acosta.what.is.in.the.health.bill.cnn?hpt=T1
When an ANA patient calls me and asks how they go about getting the insurance... I don't have a clue how to answer that now.
Is there a good link somewhere that explains this in LAYMAN's terms ??? (Ie You do not have to have an American Political science degree or law degree to figure it out)
DHM
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For the sake of calm on the forum, we had best keep this discussion and predictions polite and limited.
The general consensus so far is that only a few things will take effect in the short term, with the rest of it stretching out over several years. In the meantime it will probably get revised several times. Don't look for an insurance exchange in your state any time soon, and the hot-potato rule about having insurance or paying a tax penalty won't take effect until 2013, if it turns out to be a keeper.
The short term effects, which will be generally popular, are curbs on insurance companies being able to deny coverage for existing conditions, rules to cover children until age 26 on their parents policy, and an increase in prescription drug coverage for seniors. Other than that, as the New York Times put it, "most Americans with insurance are unlikely to see any immediate change in their coverage." Long term is another question, and the dust has to settle down a lot before anyone can really say.
I do think that having an acoustic neuroma will be less of a barrier to getting medical insurance from now on, and that at least is a good thing.
Steve
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The short term effects, which will be generally popular, are curbs on insurance companies being able to deny coverage for existing conditions......
... thus, why I am following this very closely... as I have been questioned by previous employer insurance companies as to whether or not they would cover me due to pre-existing (gawd, I miss my healthy days........)
For the sake of calm on the forum, we had best keep this discussion and predictions polite and limited.
*sits on forum sofa with bowl of popcorn.............*
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For the sake of calm on the forum, we had best keep this discussion and predictions polite and limited.
Hmm. . . this is going to be a tough one. Personally I think the bill is going to cost a lot of us money in the form of taxes in a few years both due to having either very good insurance coverage or by not having any at all. I was shocked to see that the government is going to impose tax penalties on those who don't eventually get insurance. While I think the majority of Americans should have insurance - and the bill will give many who didn't have the opportunity before to get it - I'm opposed to the government telling individuals what they HAVE to do with their personal lives.
I'm concerned about what this will cost our government (or should I say us as taxpayers) over time and I'm also concerned that we will be funding insurance coverage for illegals. My concern further extends to doctors - may whom will decided that it's not cost effective for them to practice anymore. I know several excellent doctors who were highly opposed to this bill and I think it will change their professional futures immensely. I wouldn't be surprised if more doctors decided to go into research instead of practicing medicine.
I am not an Obama fan and I can't wait to see who will succeed him. I may be wrong, but I really doubt he'll be more than a 1-term president. From my mouth to God's ear.
Just my two cents.
Pass the popcorn, Phyl.
Jan
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Pass the popcorn, Phyl.
*passes Jan the 94% Fat Free popcorn since she's been doing great on her diet!*
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I was shocked to see that the government is going to impose tax penalties on those who don't eventually get insurance.
I wonder if they won't figure out a better way to present it, something like "Anyone with health insurance gets a $300 tax credit (but your taxes are going up $300)." There is still time to get the wording right. Tax incentives are one of the standard ways for government to implement public policy.
Steve
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Actually I just saw on the news that several states are challenging this bill on the grounds that it is unconstitutional for just the reason I cite - you can't "make" people purchase medical insurance. The challenge is starting with the Attorney General of Florida, I believe, and at the current time 38 states are joining him. As soon as Obama signs the bill they plan on filing suit.
It will be very interesting to see where this all ends up.
Thanks for the fat free popcorn, Phyl. Weigh in is on Thursday and I'm trying to be "good" ::)
Jan
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He JUST signed the bill and 13 states have already filed lawsuits against the federal government. :o :o :o
Breathe, this is gonna go on and on and on and on and.....................................
Maureen.....
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I'm not going to touch most of this topic with a 10 foot pole, but will only say to DHM that I don't think as WTT-er's we should be giving advice about insurance matters anyway. Everyone's coverage, at this point, is different so there's no way you could possibly give them accurate advice on their own personal policy. And if, at some later date, everyone has the same coverage, they can always call the IRS for the details.
Oops, did I accidently let my opinion slip in there? :-X
As far as predictions, I predict someone will pass me some of that popcorn before it's gone.
Lori
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Amen, Jan! I agree wholeheartedly with all that you said, including NOT being an Obama fan.
Brenda
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I'll pass it, Lori.
This is a very touchy subject, and I haven't given (nor will I give) more than a very small piece of my thoughts on this bill. I have numerous issues with it and I think I'd get kicked off the Forum for sure - for unacceptable language, etc.
I totally agree with you. We - whether members of the WTT list or the Forum (or in some of our cases, both) - should NOT be giving advice about insurance matters when it comes to coverage of acoustic neuromas. I realize I give advice on how to get insurance coverage for BAHA implants, but that's another issue entirely. ANs need to be treated - it's a no-brainer (pun intended) - whereas no one is going to have major medical issues because they were refused coverage of a BAHA.
Jan
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I'm just the dumb blond of the Forum (& I have only watched Nick Jr. for a week now)...but don't we have some cookies to go with that popcorn...maybe Oreos?? ::)
K ;D
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but don't we have some cookies to go with that popcorn...maybe Oreos?? ::)
double stuff Oreos.... :)
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How about the new springtime double stuff oreos with the yellow filling? Or as my 3 year old says "yeyow yoyos".
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I won't even tell you how many packages of those we have eaten - I like the "holiday" ones best because A) they are the freshest & B) they seem to have a bit more stuffing than regular ones but not overdone like Double sometimes are! Can you tell I know my Oreos? ::)
K ;D
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DHM ~
Your concerns regarding how the new 'health care' bill will affect you are completely valid and are shared by millions of Americans.
Steve's comments regarding the short term effect of the new law ('ObamaCare') being somewhat negligible were accurate and quite helpful . I'll try to add to his explanation. Initially, those currently without health care insurance will be mandated to purchase it (or pay a fine). However, government subsidies will pay for the bulk of the coverage for the currently uninsured. One way that will happen is by expanding Medicaid eligibility -- with income limits up to nearly $30,000 for a family of four. The other way is by the government subsidizing private coverage through the new 'insurance exchanges'. Families with incomes between $30,000 and $88,000 a year should be eligible for those subsidies. For those who have their health care insurance through a relatively 'big' employer, nothing will change, although your annual cost will probably rise, soon. Those who work for a small business are likely to see their employer drop their health care coverage, making the employee eligible for some kind of government subsidy that will allow them to purchase health care insurance through the newly-created 'health care exchanges' that are formed as a result of this new law. Younger people, like my son (age 30, single, with employer-supplied health care insurance) will likely see their health care premiums substantially rise. Beginning this year, people with pre-existing health conditions who have been denied coverage and have been uninsured for six months will be eligible for government-subsidized coverage through a national 'high-risk' insurance 'pool' program. The pool serves as a temporary fix until the insurance exchanges are up and running. By 2014, insurers may no longer charge individuals and small businesses higher premiums or deny coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions. 'ObamaCare' contains several Medicare enhancements, i.e. beginning in 2011, preventive services tests and treatments will be covered in full, instead of in part, as is now the case. However, the legislation also slashes subsidies to private health plans that serve seniors -- so-called "Medicare Advantage" plans which is a minus for millions of Medicare recipients.
What has to be mentioned is that when politicians use the term 'government subsidized' they really mean: the government takes your money (via taxes or fines) to pay for health care insurance for someone else. The only money the 'government' has is what it receives in taxes on American citizens. Based on previous large-scale government programs (Medicare, Social Security) the cost of this health care 'reform' will undoubtedly range far beyond the original (rosy) estimate of almost one trillion dollars over ten years or 100 billion per year, making it, in the Washington, D.C. idiom: unsustainable. I believe that 'rationing' of medical care/procedures will be inevitable and that folks in my general age bracket will get the short end of that deal. I hope I'm wrong. In addition, there are many unintended consequences in this 'reform'. It's not unreasonable to assume that many doctors will likely chose to retire early and young people will not want to take on the years of schooling, intense training and the huge financial burden of becoming a physician when you'll be basically working for the government with bureaucrats telling you who'll you'll treat, how you'll treat them and how much you'll be paid. Those who believe that Washington politicians can effectively form a gigantic bureaucracy that can add tens of millions of people into the health care system with no loss of quality or availability of treatment and actually save money doing so, are going to be sorely disappointed with this 'reform'.
I also believe that once 'private' insurance companies are legally mandated to accept those with pre-existing illnesses they'll cease to operate because the element of calculated risk ('underwriting') will have been obliterated and the insurance company can no longer make a profit. The government will then be 'forced' to 'step in' and offer what is usually referred to as 'single-payer' health insurance. The 'single payer' now being the federal government. I do not believe this will be good for AN patients or almost anyone. I also fail to see how the federal government can force American citizens to purchase health insurance against their will. I believe that we should all have some form of health insurance and the indigent have long been covered under state Medicaid programs, but for our government to force, by law, punishable by fines enforced by the dreaded IRS (up to $2,2050. or 2% of your income, whichever is greater) a free citizen of the U.S. to purchase health insurance seems to be overreaching and sets a dangerous precedent. I'm certain this issue will be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court because it is a valid constitutional question and affects everyone in the country, but with the court's decision regarding 'eminent domain' (Kelo v. City of New London - 2005) I'm far from sanguine about this provision of the new national health care bill being struck down as unconstitutional, although I think it should be. If congress has that kind of power to force otherwise free American citizens to buy something they don't want, what else can they mandate? The usual comparison to states mandating that you have auto insurance is invalid. Driving is a privilege...no one has to drive a car if they don't chose to do so. This law offers no 'opt-out' clause. I simply don't believe that health care is a 'right', as this bill's supporters claim but I know that in America, anyone can walk into most hospitals and receive medical care. There are people on the hospital's staff to help those uninsured to procure some sort of payment for their care, usually Medicare. Illegal aliens in the U.S. have been receiving free health care for years, often at the expense of the hospitals they use and the local taxpayers, but that's another issue. Right now, illegal aliens are not specifically 'covered' by this government scheme but I suspect that it is just a matter of time until they are, depending on the mid-term election results.
I don't believe the taxpayers of America can afford this health care debacle, which the president and the congressional leaders had to push over the legislative 'finish line' like Bernie Lomax's corpse in the movie 'Weekend at Bernies' (1989), except that was a movie comedy - this is real life...and I'm not laughing.
I know it wasn't limited but I trust my commentary was polite and somewhat informative.
Jim
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I trust my commentary was polite but informative.
*passes Jim the bowl of popcorn and a new package of double stuff Oreos for time/energy put forth in the explanation! :) *
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I am just so thankful I have already had my surgery! I am VERY concerned for others who yet are to be diagnosed w/AN or any other condition that might deem them "not eligible" for surgery because they are "too old" to "contribute" to society!! How sad!!!
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I only have a couple of things to say. I have no idea if a country with as large of a population as the US can ever develop a universal health care system that will work effectively (maybe in 100 years after all the kinks have worked themselves out), that will make everybody happy (oh right, like THAT's ever going to happen!), that will cover all the basic needs of our population (there will always be something messed up) and that will work in the long term (none of us will be alive to see it, I don't think..). Guess we'll find out, if we live long enough. Next year I will be 65 and I will be going on the "other" government run health care system, Medicare, and I'm looking forward to it, because the insurance that my husband has for me for this one year is okay, but not great. He is on Medicare and his supplemental insurance now, and he's going to be okay. I just hope I don't have anything major happen to me this next year. And it will take years before all of this new health care system goes into full working mode, and by then the people who don't want it, will probably have taken it out of commission. So, don't panic yet folks (those that are unhappy). It will take a long time before the dust settles, and I, personally, am proud of President Obama and the Democratic party for at least trying to get through health care plan, after so many years of trying. This is only the first go-around, and I expect that it will be blown out of the water at some point. Wish I could pop back in to the US in about 200 years to see if it ever developed into anything.
Sue in Vancouver USA
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Very informative and very helpful, Jim, I like, you, think this is a travesty.
Brenda
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Thanks for all the great, thorough discussion!
Speaking of movies and popcorn, I expect at least one movie to be made of all this .... hopefully it'll be a spoof, so that we can follow-up this sad situation with some laughter. And so, perhaps it's time to consider who might play the roles. No need to list your choices here in this rather serious thread, as that might be considered a highjack (?).
Hope you are not negatively affected by this law.
Greg
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And so, perhaps it's time to consider who might play the roles. No need to list your choices here in this rather serious thread, as that might be considered a highjack (?).
Hijacks allowed in "AN Community" Mr. Greg :)
Ok, nominations for the roles:
Denzel Washington to play Obama
Laim Neeson (padded up) to play Sen Ted Kennedy (may he rest in peace)
Leslie Neilson to play Biden
Helen Mirren to play Nancy Palosi (she happens to do a terrific 'Merican accent!)
Brad Pitt to play the newly elected Sen Scott Brown (R-MA)
Ok, had no chocolate, but too much fun to pass this up.
*sits back down to enjoy fat-free popcorn*
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I don't think Brad Pitt would agree to play a republican.
Sara
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I don't think Brad Pitt would agree to play a republican.
Sara
true.... but.... he's got the looks for the part... and Brad and Angie have a lot of mouths to feed... if the price were right.... hmmm........
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Phyl, your choice for Biden is perfect! Either him or Lloyd Bridges - he was good at playing a clueless leader in Hot Shots. :D
I think we scratch Brad Pitt (too much drama) and let LA David take that role!
For Nancy Pelosi, I'm thinking someone from Saturday Night Live... I'd play her myself, I have the dark hair, but with this pesky facial paralysis, I can't get my face to stay stuck in a permanent smile like she does. ::)
Lori
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*bites toungue* Those of you who have me as a friend on FB know where I stand on this issue. Those that don't know where I stand, I don't want to be kicked out like Jan for foul language. So, I'll just sit on the couch with everyone else eating popcorn and oreos. :)
Regards,
Brian
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Hey Phyl, bring out more popcorn!
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OMG .... what did I start? But hope all have fun with it. And hope DHM doesn't mind the "hijack", even tho you, Phyl, say it's OK herein.
When I mentioned this, I really had no one in mind .... just the overall concept of the health care issue in congress being presented a bit lighter than it actually has been presented to the American public, and the world, for the better part of the last year. That's why I suggested a spoof.
Liam Neeson as Ted seems somewhat serious. How bout that comedian that does all the impersonations .... name?
Nielson as the VP is good, but my choice is a spittin image .... Jeff Dunham's "Walter".
Lori, you're good to suggest the permanent smile ..... so if you keep practicing and make it work .... I'd vote for you in a heartbeat! Otherwise .... Jim Carrey ;D
Two other additions for bit parts in the background .... Pee Wee Herman as Rahm E. and the bad guy from "Ghost" as Turbotax Tim.
More later, possibly.
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Oh so many things to say here ... hmmmmmmmmmmm
First ... I had surgery with Cigna in force ... we were switched to BCBS of Tennessee sub something S (S stands for sucks) (hope that won't get me booted) and were told it would be a seamless transition from Cigna ... it has not been ... they have argued that treatment order by doctors to follow AN symptoms are unnecessary ... refused to pay for treatment such as lyrica for headaches etc etc ... so I am already being treated as pre-existing ... under this I can still be treated as pre-existing til 2014 ... a status I have been trying to shed with little luck... what they really have us all on is a high deductible plan that saves us less than a hundred dollars a month over what our Cigna policy cost but costs us more in long run ... office visits that once had a $20 under Cigna now cost me full price ...anywhere from $49 -$98 ...MRIs in December 2008 were not paid on at all ... I didn't do scans that were recommended to be re-done in Dec 2009 because I just paid off the 2008 in October and I am not the only one in this family with needs that involve what money we have ...my husbands place of employment has 55 people ...will this be a small business that will drop their coverage and we will pick up insurance trough a health care exchange…what counts as small ... and will I be any better off if we are dropped and have to go elsewhere … I have already look for insurance and can’t get anyone to tale me on at a price we can afford …
that is probably more than a first but I will continue ...
Second ....Sue in Vancouver ... being on Medicare is not a guarantee that you will be adequately covered ... December 2007 my mom had a mastectomy ... she wanted both breast removed but they wouldn't do it ... at that time she was on her employee plan ... she was no longer to work after treatments that left her with new problems ... she was allowed to keep insurance until she turned 67 and went on Medicare in July 2009 ... she had finished chemo and radiation before switchover ...they picked up most drug costs and all seemed well ... December 2009 she discovered lumps in remaining breast and was told she would not receive a mammogram or biopsy until April 2010 because her medication had used up her cancer coverage for the year ... she fought until February to get this turned over and then just decided to wait it out ... she can get needed tests in about 3 weeks ...but she fears it is too late as lumps have grown ... she was told this was due to cut backs gearing up for health reform bill ... blah blah blah ....hope you have better luck with them than she has
Third .... I kinda like Denzel Washington and not sure I want him to play Obama
Fourth …as always Jim , a well thought out post with great info in easier to understand sentences than the politicians and insurance companies use
and lastly ... did you know that after Christmas at our Walmart you can get Christmas Oreos for half price ...last year got we spring ones that had Easter eggs on them and blue filling for half price the day after Easter ... Halloween ones with ugly orange filling on November 1st ...again half price ... I called a friend in Alabama and told her of this remarkable phenomenon and she went to her Walmart and they did not participate in this reduction of price citing Oreos are Oreos no matter the color
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I have gotten them 1/2 price before but usually they are sold out WAY before the actual holiday...guess you are not eating enough Oreos up there!!
K ;D
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Very informative post, Jim.
I probably learned more from your post than I've learned from all the news channels and websites. Very well done :)
Lori, I'm with Grega, you've got my vote ;D
Jan
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My predictions, which allow me to voice a view without being argumentative ;) :
1. The "mandate" will remain, since it is just a tax, and I don't think they are going to revoke the Fed's ability to impose taxes. The opt-out is to pay the tax instead of getting insurance.
2. The insurance companies will stay in business and prosper. While they will now be limited to keeping no more than 20% of premiums for themselves, their customer base will grow, and so will their bottom line.
3. Brad Pitt will happily take the part of Scott Brown. Actors like taking contrary edgy roles, and what better than a pro-choice Republican senator from Massachusetts?
4. Phyl will slap me silly as she shoves the popcorn towards me and strongly suggests I stuff some in my mouth. ;D
Steve
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to tell the truth ... I don't eat them ...*ducking to dodge empty popcorn bowl* and not mentioning I don't eat popcorn either :o...
I know .. both are a small sin ... truth be known I don't care for chocoalte of any kind all that much
but my husband and the girls love them ... Oreos and popcorn ...and make up for my lack of enthusiasum
I snack on mashed taters , grits and dry uncooked raman noodles ...I know ...odd... and should blame it on brain surgery but did it before
I had surgery :)
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HMMM ...So basically a wise financial move, right about now, would be to buy stocks in the medical insurance companies ... and Orville Redenbacher? ;)
Brad Pitt Huh :-\
DHM
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Great posts everyone. I should go to work for UPS, like my son, and be a Teamster. He has great insurance. He hardly paid for a thing after he blew out his ACL and had to have knee surgery.
I am hoping my supplemental insurance will cover things that medicare won't cover. I honestly shouldn't talk about any of this insurance stuff, because I don't know anything about it. I just know that in a year I will have medicare and a supplemental like most other seniors. It's better than nothing. Which a lot of people have. Nothing.
Sue in Vancouver USA
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Ok, since I've gotten the role of Nancy P., I will begin preparing by working on my permanently fixed smile, my ability to pop up and down out of a seat at a moments notice to clap loudly (talk about a workout!) and I will schedule my frontal lobotomy. I wonder if insurance will cover that? ???
Soundy, I think I figured out the cause of your medical issues - you need to eat more chocolate! :D
Lori
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G'mornin all,
Steve, I beg to differ .... the law's provision is not just a tax .... it's a federally-imposed penalty for not purchasing a product. This is unheard of and uncalled for, and only one of the measures for which so many are upset at the "lawmakers" elected to represent us.
Soundy, living so close to DC, the cable news shows and the local channels bombard this area 24/7 with every aspect and angle of health care, tea partiers, cap & trade, etc, etc, etc. So, on a lighter note, I agree with you .... Denzel's a good choice, but not as the prez. With his great smile, height and energy, and with a great team of makeup artists, how bout Michelle? :o He could add a few pounds for the role, and then thru the movie, slim down as "she" focuses efforts on getting the country to become more physically fit and thereby adding emphasis to ways to reduce health care costs. Might just work ........
Lori .... I love your "just-posted" post ....... let your imagination run wild with the Nancy Ligosi ..... I mean Pelozzi .... role!
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Who is going to play Biden now!!! He thinks this insurance thing is ******* wonderful!
I really don't understand to much about the insurance as it seems if you blink the rules change. I am now getting ready to do round 1 with my insurance company about the BAHA!!!
Thanks Jim for you post.
Pass the popcorn & oreos this way. I need a break from my diet!!
Happy Trails,
Lynn
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Steve, I beg to differ .... the law's provision is not just a tax .... it's a federally-imposed penalty for not purchasing a product. This is unheard of and uncalled for
It was first proposed by John McCain back in the 90's; supported by Tommy Thompson in the Bush administration; and by Mitt Romney in Mass. It was not Obama's preference back in 2008.
It is not possible to eliminate denial for pre-existing conditions unless you make insurance a mandate. Otherwise people would just buy insurance when they were sick, and cancel it when then were well again, which would never work.
If I don't contribute $1000 to charity this year, my income tax bill will be $300 higher next April. If a tax penalty for not doing something is unconstitutional, then we will have to eliminate the "federal mandate to contribute to charity else your taxes will be higher" provisions of the tax code. I don't think we want to go there.
So I predict it will hold up. I do hope they change the wording, so it is more palatable to people. Something like "your taxes go up, but you get a tax credit if you have health insurance" would do the trick, and be exactly the same thing.
Steve
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Steve,
With all due respect, whether it be a tax or not a tax doesn't much matter.. It is unconstitutional for the federal government to require you to purchase a certain good or service. If this holds up, then there will be no bounds for the federal government to require you to purchase something (probably one of their campaign contributing companies). The founders of this country intentionally didn't give that authority to the federal government precisely because of the potential problems and conflicts of interest that introduces let alone they wanted the states to be somewhat autonomous. The federal government has over-stepped it's authority. They are limited by the expressed "powers" written in the constitution and the rest are given to the states. That was by design and with good reason, in my opinion. I predict that it will be over-turned on constitutional grounds, however they may take years. We all must endure these unfunded mandates that bankrupt even further the states, higher taxes, and God knows what else while that happens. Regardless of party, what they've done is unconstitutional.
Wow.. I got through that without any F bombs.. I'm better than Biden. ;)
Regards,
Brian
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Soundy, I think I figured out the cause of your medical issues - you need to eat more chocolate! :D
Lori
there is a Snicker Bar on the counter ... maybe I should I eat it ... I have 14 month old grand daughter keeping me company today
and could blame its disappearance on her and report back here later if any of my issues have resolved
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Most important - Soundy, how bout eating a small bit and then putting the rest in the freezer for later, then later, then later .........
Second most - Thanks Steve and Brian, for the interesting discussion ..... something that makes this country great! When the government ignores our views and wishes, and creates laws against what the Constitution intended, then those lawmakers have made this country a bit less great.
From the LA Times .... "What will the overhaul do, and when?"
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-health-box24-2010mar24,0,4811860.story
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Without being argumentative, I would like to offer my opinion on a couple of salient issues that have been raised in this discussion.
It's true that by paying a fine or a 'tax', since that is what will likely allow this provision to pass constitutional muster, one may 'opt out' of 'ObamaCare'. However, the problem is that now, the government has become the sole legally-constituted authority on what kind of health care Americans are allowed to receive. By virtue of government bureaucracies 'regulating' formally private, independent insurance carriers, doctors, hospitals these bureaucracies (aka 'the government') become the arbiters that will determine both the level and frequency of your health care, stripping the patient and his/her doctor of the freedom of choice. I fail to see how this will improve health care for any of us and I find the provision in HR4872, now a law, that provides for the imposition of a fine/tax for not carrying what the IRS deems 'adequate' health care insurance an affront to individual liberty. In addition, there are many 'time bombs' embedded - too many to list, here - in this massive piece of legislation that will bring grief to many Americans, used to getting whatever health care they need, albeit, at a cost. That once-satisfactory state of affairs will end for many. Medicare recipients will suffer the most, as expected. According to the new law, The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your health care benefits for you. Actually, government bureaucrats will determine a host of medical issues for you, reducing the patient to little more than a supplicant. Once that MRI is denied you'll be out of luck and with no real option to appeal, especially if you're a 'senior citizen' not deemed to be 'contributing' to society. If this seems like hyperbole, just wait until the harsh reality of this new law begins to manifest itself. It won't take long. Frankly, I'm almost looking forward to being vindicated by events as that will mean that a lot of people will be rudely awakened to what the congress has wrought, and they won't be pleased. Unfortunately, I've followed this bill, now the law of the land, and I have some idea of whats coming...and it isn't very encouraging.
The issue of insurance companies reaping huge profits is a bit of a straw man. Insurance companies will become mere administrators for the government bureaucracy that will determine, by law, who they insure and how much they can charge, which will definitely reduce their profits. Insuring anyone who applies, whether they have just been diagnosed with a serious illness or been injured in an accident will skew the whole concept of shared risk and with the government demonizing insurance companies and now having the authority to set their prices for them, the reasonable method of charging people a premium based on their age, health status, occupation and other factors is out the window. Costs will definitely rise.
I don't wish to belabor my objection to this new law but I wanted to state my opinion. Having done so, I'll try to refrain from adding more and hope that others will want to participate in the discussion, which is germane to us all.
Jim
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Question for those who've watched the news.
Last evening I saw a teaser that said that this health care reform bill was also somehow linked to student loans. Then I changed channels and forgot to watch :P Can anyone explain that?
I have no student loans, but in 4 1/2 short years I'll be looking to fund college for two children, so I'd imagine I'll be in the market - unless Lori really does become Nancy Pelosi and decides to bankroll my kids' education. Don't worry, Pooter; she'll "gift" you a BAHA implant at the same time.
Grega - you're humor is killing me :D ;D
Jan
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With all due respect, whether it be a tax or not a tax doesn't much matter..
With equal respect, that is what I don't agree with. That it is only a tax makes all the difference. The Fed cannot put me in jail for not buying health insurance - that would be clearly unconstitutional. But the Fed can and does tax me for not doing certain things.
I recently bought a new furnace. I bought the 95% one, so I will get a $1200 tax credit next year. Had I chosen to get an 80% efficient one, the Fed can and would have charged me $1200 more in taxes next year. They have in effect mandated what kind of furnace I buy. If that is constitutional, then so is charging me more tax if I don't buy health insurance. I am not so much commenting on whether it is good or bad, as on whether there is a legal basis for the Fed to implement public policy through taxes. I claim there is and will continue to be.
Since we as a forum consider this a place to vent, among other things, I appreciate having this topic in which to vent. We shall see what happens!
Steve
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Steve,
the difference is that you can choose to not buy a furnace at all. With this bill, you cannot not buy medical insurance if you choose. The fed is requiring you to buy a particular product. That's unconstitutional.
Jan, there is a provision in the bill that forbids banks from issuing student loans. Only the federal government and one bank (can't remember which one) can issue them. That's what you heard about.
Jim, an individual cannot opt out, but a state can. And not out of the federal requirement for insurance (and associated fees, fines, taxes etc) but the federal insurance pool. I still will have to payfor a system that my state might opt out of. Nice eh?
Regards,
Brian
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this health care reform bill was also somehow linked to student loans
Yes, student loan reform is part of the bill. They are returning the government backed student loans to the government, instead of paying banks to administer them. As far as I can tell, you still apply the same way, but you are borrowing directly from the government (like I did in college), not from a bank. The money comes through the financial aid office of the education institution.
Google it, you can find more on it.
Steve
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Thanks Steve, Brian & Jim for your very important explanations on this reform. I've learned a lot, and hope many others herein do likewise. And I will pass this info on to friends who also question what's going on ....sans names of course.
Last night, I heard a very easy-to-understand discussion on a timeline for the possible repeal of this health care reform law .... the earliest might be Feb 2013 .... just after the next presidential election. Interesting to follow that possibility.
Jan, I'm confused by your rather explosive remark ... after several thousand umpteen posts, are you allowed to say such things ??? Lori seems to have accepted the role of Nanny Ligosi (my 2nd choice is still Jim Carrey ;D ) ..... Denzel, with proper makeup for Michelle ::) ..... and "Walter" as the ______ VEEP :o. Oh yes, the possibility that Soundy will experiment with little bits of chocolate should leave you elated! ;D
Greg
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Steve,
the difference is that you can choose to not buy a furnace at all. With this bill, you cannot not buy medical insurance if you choose. The fed is requiring you to buy a particular product. That's unconstitutional.
...
Regards,
Brian
Sorry but I don't remember anything about health insurance in the constitution! It seems that if you want to own a car you have to have insurance, right? That is OK because you can not own a car. Well by that logic I can say if you don't want a health insurance mandate you can leave the country!
You know the more I hear of the objections to healthcare I have to laugh. It seems people want the insurance companies to not be able to deny anyone, can not deny preexisting conditions, and be affordable. The insurance companies say OK then you have to have ALL in the insurance pool; healthy and unhealthy. I can understand that. Hey you can't have your cake...
But what people really want is insurance that is affordable, they don't have to buy it until they need it, can cancel it once they are well, no out-of-pocket costs at all, has no deductibles, pays your alimony and home mortgage and... anything I forgot?
Neal
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The amendment on the student loan portion of the bill that did not pass was the lowering of the interest rate from 6. something to 5.3%.
Brenda
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Hey Neal,
Think we can get a plan that does windows too? :D I figure since we're asking for stuff, I might as well go for it!
Lori
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Hey Neal,
Think we can get a plan that does windows too? :D I figure since we're asking for stuff, I might as well go for it!
Lori
...of course, how can I forget the windows!
;)
Neal
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Lori .... I like the fact that you're rehearsing for that role of Nanny Ligosi .... making sure that all sorts of necessary ::), albeit ridiculous earmarks, are included in any and every law passed under "your" watch!
Keep up the good work!
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Neel,
Ahh.. another difference. In the case of automobile insurance, the STATE requires it, not the federal government. The right to force you to buy a certain good or service rests with the state, NOT the Federal Government.
The reason you can't remember anything in the constitution about health insurance is that it's not there.. It's not an EXPRESSED POWER of the Federal Government to force you to buy ANYTHING so that power rests with the States.
I agree that what people want is out of line with reality.. Lower preminums, more coverage, no deductible, no out of pocket expenses, etc... It will NEVER be that way no matter if insurance companies manage it or the federal government does. Either you're going to pay premiums in line with the coverages of their "pool" of people or you're going to pay the Federal Government higher and higher taxes to pay for their "pool" people. As it stands now, my "premium" is going to be lower (presumably, but not anytime soon), but my taxes will be higher.. the net is that my overall "bill" (to insurance companies and the federal government combined) is going up... Notice they only said that our premiums would go down.. they didn't harp on the fact that my taxes would off-set that and then some.
To sum up my opinion of the Federal Government doing anything this big anywhere close to right:
The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. They had 234 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
Social Security was established in 1935.
They had 74 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
Fannie Mae was established in 1938.
They had 71 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
War on Poverty started in 1964.
They had 45 years to get it right;
1$ trillion of our money is confiscated each year and
transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.
Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965.
They had 44 years to get it right and they are BROKE.
Freddie Mac was established in 1970.
They had 39 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before.
They had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal FAILURE.
Now, how long before they screw up our health care system, and more importantly how long will we let them screw it up?
I'll jump off my soap box now..
Regards,
Brian
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Lori .... I like the fact that you're rehearsing for that role of Nanny Ligosi .... making sure that all sorts of necessary ::), albeit ridiculous earmarks, are included in any and every law passed under "your" watch!
Keep up the good work!
Ah, thanks! Just for that, I've got a million dollars with your name on it! ;) Would you look at that - I think I'm already above her 8% approval rating!
Lori
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Neel,
Ahh.. another difference. In the case of automobile insurance, the STATE requires it, not the federal government. The right to force you to buy a certain good or service rests with the state, NOT the Federal Government.
The reason you can't remember anything in the constitution about health insurance is that it's not there.. It's not an EXPRESSED POWER of the Federal Government to force you to buy ANYTHING so that power rests with the States.
I agree that what people want is out of line with reality.. Lower preminums, more coverage, no deductible, no out of pocket expenses, etc... It will NEVER be that way no matter if insurance companies manage it or the federal government does. Either you're going to pay premiums in line with the coverages of their "pool" of people or you're going to pay the Federal Government higher and higher taxes to pay for their "pool" people. As it stands now, my "premium" is going to be lower (presumably, but not anytime soon), but my taxes will be higher.. the net is that my overall "bill" (to insurance companies and the federal government combined) is going up... Notice they only said that our premiums would go down.. they didn't harp on the fact that my taxes would off-set that and then some.
To sum up my opinion of the Federal Government doing anything this big anywhere close to right:
The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775. They had 234 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
Social Security was established in 1935.
They had 74 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
Fannie Mae was established in 1938.
They had 71 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
War on Poverty started in 1964.
They had 45 years to get it right;
1$ trillion of our money is confiscated each year and
transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.
Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965.
They had 44 years to get it right and they are BROKE.
Freddie Mac was established in 1970.
They had 39 years to get it right and it is BROKE.
The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before.
They had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal FAILURE.
Now, how long before they screw up our health care system, and more importantly how long will we let them screw it up?
I'll jump off my soap box now..
Regards,
Brian
I don't know if I agree with everything you say is broke is broken. That is your opinion. I will agree that as time goes on these programs need to be updated, re-thought, changed, fixed or eliminated.
I will say that I am not ready to live in a log cabin in the woods with a shotgun by my side and believe 'hooray for me and the h*ll with everyone else!' . I believe those days are over, thankfully.
Neal
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Neal,
The postal service has recently come to Congress asking for more funding and asking to raise the cost of a first class stamp... Again. Because they're losing money.
Social Security, with benefits remaining the same, the amount that the SSA collects from workers versus what they pay out in benefits will equate in them ultimately losing money.. They've already gone back to Congress to "cash in" on some of the IOU's the Congress gave them to fund pet projects.. For all intents and purposes, they're broke.
Fannie and Freddie just got bailed out because they can't control their costs.. They're broke.
The "War on Poverty" speaks for itself. When it first started, there was a certain percentage of the Americans poor.. so, we waged "war" and increased funding 400% since it started... Today, the same percentage of people are poor.. Where's the positive impact on the number of poor? We keep giving and the poor keep asking for more.
Medicare and Medicaid haven't been able to break even almost since day 1.. Again, if you take into account the amount they're taking in (or projected to take in) versus what they pay out in benefits is a negative number.. For all intents and purposes they're broke.
The DOE's objective (one of) was to reduce our dependence on foreign oil (so we didn't have the long gas lines and gas shortages like we did in the late 70's again)... We are no less dependent on forign oil now than we were then. They failed in one of their primary missions.
My point to all of that was that all of the "big" inventions of the government by either party has resulted in us spending a massive amount of money above and beyond what we were told, they've failed in their primary objective at the time they were created, or they're just plain ineffective at what they do. Or, some combination of the 3 as the case may be. So, why on earth would we think that the new health care bill will be any different from that?
Don't get me wrong.. I think the federal government has it's place and rights under the constitution to do certain things. They're a necessary evil in my book. For example, they're GREAT at military things and generally keeping us all safe every night. I just simply disagree that THIS health care bill will fix the problems that it supposedly aims to cure without a HUGE tab that you and I (and everyone else) will have to pick up. Based on prior history of anything "big" that this government has tried to do (aside from militarily), they have a track record of failing miserably and I have no confidence in them to get this one right either. Not to mention they can't constitutionally do what they're trying to do but I'll let the courts decide that one. I'm just voicing my own layman's opinion.
Regards,
Brian
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Jan, I'm confused by your rather explosive remark ... after several thousand umpteen posts, are you allowed to say such things ???
Okay, now I'm confused ??? What'd I say ???
Actually I was kind of proud of myself for reigning in my opinion. I've abdicated the "tough-guy" role to someone else ;)
Go get 'em, Pooter ;D I think you should run for office.
Jan
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Golly, I would never have thought the Post Office would come under fire. I can send Pooter a letter and have it delivered in less than a week, for fifty cents with some change back. That is an amazing bargain. A government postal service is essential to a successful nation; we would never have made it this far without one.
Buy some Forever stamps, man. ;D
Steve
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Steve,
Personally, I never use the USPS. But we are using it as a nation less and they keep charging more AND they want more of the budget money AND reduce services. In the business world, they would go out of business. Theyhave no incentive to be more efficient or better at what they do. They know we will pay higher for service and/or the fed will give them more money. I'm not asking they turn a profit, but at least break even. Is that too much to ask? We are essentially a stock holder and we should expect more than below mediocrity, in my opinion. :)
The point was that they're part of a government trend of over spending, reducing service and sub-par services.
Regards,
Brian
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*sits back with new bowl of 94% fat free popcorn, new package of double stuff Oreo's and my fave beverage.... continues to watch the sparks fly.....*
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Pooter,
It might be a Texas thing, but I agree with so much of what you have said. Keep'em coming!
Brenda
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Pooter,
While I doubt I could ever change your opinion, at the same time I doubt you can ever change mine. That said, I must admit that at one time my political belief was 'the government that governs least, governs best.' In a perfect world that would be true. What life has taught me, though, is that in the real world it just does not work. That said, in a perfect world we would not need government at all!
While much of what you say is absolutely true, it is only half the story.
First, insurance mandates -- by your statements it is OK if the mandate is from the State but not OK if it is from the Fed. Come on, you are either OK with mandates or against them. It doesn't matter at the end of the day who is forcing you to do something by a mandate, they are still forcing you. The truth is we are used to car insurance mandates and health insurance mandate is new. I have health insurance and plan to keep it so I am not put off by this. I know plenty of people who should have health insurance, can afford it, yet don't buy it. I could say it is their loss but it really affects everyone's cost as the insured pool is smaller because of this.
Your list of Federal government services show them as money losers. I do agree that there is waste and they could be run better and more efficiently. But also remember they are government services and at best should beak even. In a perfect world they would. But we do not live in a perfect world, we live in the real world. In the real world these services are needed. I can see how Social Security and Medicare help people. I can't imagine what most of our senior population would do without them. Some can't even survive well with them, imagine if they didn't even have that! Yes, in a perfect world they would all be in the black.
So I look at your list of government services that are all 'Broke' and wonder are they worth it? My car comes to mind. It cost me a lot of money to purchase. It costs me money to run, insure and maintain. I do not gain any income from having a car. It's only function to me is convenience and pleasure. Yet, I value that convenience and pleasure. It is worth it to me. I think the same way about the services listed. I enjoy getting my mail delivered to me at home and the office. I do enjoy seeing my elderly mothers expenses helped by Social Security and Medicare. I do look forward to retiring someday and hope to survive on what is left of the savings investments over the years, BUT I am thankful that regardless of how my financial planning succeeded or failed I will at least be able to receive my Social Security,
While I understand with your point of view and I agree government IS a necessary evil, I also believe healthcare reform is very much needed in this country. That said I am also aware that the bill that just passed leaves a lot to be desired by all but it is a beginning and, in my opinion better than nothing.
I have no love for either political party and do wish we had better alternatives. I don't believe that our Representatives are doing what's best for us, but are doing what they believe will keep them elected. I don't believe that a smaller government that does less is the answer. I think a more responsible government would do better.
Sincerely,
Neal
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Thanks for the popcorn, Phyl.
BTW, VERY nice new profile picture. You look fabulous ;D
Thought we should take a short break from the subject at hand.
Okay, folks, carry on ;D
Jan
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Just as an interesting note - New Hampshire does not require you to purchase auto insurance in order to operate a vehicle registered there. "Live free or Die".
Ok. Carry on. Just thought that was an interesting bit of trivia. And if you're ever on Jeopardy!, it might come in handy. ;D
Lori
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Just as an interesting note - New Hampshire does not require you to purchase auto insurance in order to operate a vehicle registered there. "Live free or Die".
Ok. Carry on. Just thought that was an interesting bit of trivia. And if you're ever on Jeopardy!, it might come in handy. ;D
Lori
My dad used to live in a state that did not require auto insurance. He had to buy an additional rider to his policy just in case he had an accident with an uninsured vehicle.
With uninsured motorists on the road the motto should read 'live free AND die.'
Neal
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I'm not asking they turn a profit, but at least break even. Is that too much to ask?
At 45 cents a letter, yes it is too much to ask. If you think it should be doable, start a business delivering first class mail anywhere in the US for 45 cents a letter, and show us how it can be done.
The USPS was established because it was recognized that we need an official way to communicate legal notices, business invoices, etc., to make commerce work. It is subsidized by the US government, because it is a lousy business model, and no private business would touch it.
If you want them to break even, then let them raise the rate to $2.00 per letter, or something, which is probably about how much it really costs. I'm sure it would be a popular move. ;)
Steve
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Neal,
You're missing the point. I never said I agreed or disagreed with insurance mandates from the state. In general, that's a good thing. But, regional requirements for regional people. I can directly affect that requirements if done at the state level. I can't at the federal level. Extreme example. Let's say that the federal government does have the power to issue mandates that we all buy a certain product or service regardless of personal need. They could, in their infinite wisdom, mandate that I purchase a cow. Every man, woman and child must own a cow. This will, in their mind, help provide milk for the family to drink, meat if they end up needing food (but, they'll have to buy another cow), etc... for whatever reason, they mandate that there be a cow for every man, woman and child in this country. For some, that would be fine.. They like cows.. they like milk... they even like the comfort of knowing that if needed they could get meat. But, for others, they hate milk (or lactose intollerant) or are vegetarians and have no use for the meat protection. Let alone they haven't the space to keep the cow. And, regionally, that makes more sense to some over others.. But, IF the fed were given unlimited authority to mandate the purchase of a certain good or service, then we'd have a lot of mandates from them that most of us don't need or want. With no real control to stop them. At least on a state level, any "mandate" would be voted on directly by the people before it was required. From the federal government, not so much. THAT's why they weren't given that constitutional power.
Perfect world? I'm not asking that we live in a perfect world. My point is that these services by and large are "worth it". They provide valuable services to most of us at one time or another. However, we shouldn't reward inadequate service, waste, fraud and utter mismanagement by throwing more money at the problems they have. We're teaching them that no matter how bad they are at running that service, we'll give them even more money to "make it right". They have NO incentive at all to do things right and more efficient... If it's not right or inefficient or whatever we'll just give them more money to balance their books. Where I guess we differ is that in my "perfect world" they would turn a profit and reduce their budget the next year (because they found a better way to do things, etc..) not break even. In my "perfect world" breaking even would be on the low end of "perfect". I realize that we don't live in a perfect world, however I don't think it's earth shattering that we expect these "services" strive to break even.
Better than nothing? So, higher premiums, higher taxes, and the creation of even more of a shortage of providers is better than nothing? Wow. We have differing opinions on "better than nothing". I agree the current system is broken in some areas. But, THIS bill doesn't fix those problems.
About you getting social security when you're older. Don't bet on it. It likely will be out of money then. Don't rely on social security being there when you need it because it may not be.
We agree on one thing... I have little confidence that the current flock of people in Washington (from the White House to Congress and down) are doing what is best for Americans, they're doing what gives them the best chance at getting elected again. Regardless of party. I believe that a more responsible government would be better, however in my opinion a smaller AND more responsible government would be even better than that.
Let's go here.. You tell me what you like about the bill.. How does this bill solve the problems that we face with the current system? Don't tell me what the problems are with the current system, just how this bill solves those problems. We agree the current system is flawed in some key ways, however I'd like to hear from you how THIS bill solves those problems.
Regards,
Brian
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Well, for one thing insurance companies will not be able deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
I do like the idea of everybody owning a cow, though. I think I'll write my representitives and ask for another mandate.
Social Security? Yeah I'll bet on it.
Time will tell,
Cheers,
Neal
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At 45 cents a letter, yes it is too much to ask. If you think it should be doable, start a business delivering first class mail anywhere in the US for 45 cents a letter, and show us how it can be done.
The USPS was established because it was recognized that we need an official way to communicate legal notices, business invoices, etc., to make commerce work. It is subsidized by the US government, because it is a lousy business model, and no private business would touch it.
If you want them to break even, then let them raise the rate to $2.00 per letter, or something, which is probably about how much it really costs. I'm sure it would be a popular move. ;)
Steve
There is a reason that FedEx and UPS are in business and remain in business. They can, and do, provide a similar service and do so at a profit to their stockholders. If they can't figure out how to make money at it, then they will go out of business (a la DHL).
The congress won't get out of the way of the USPS doing what's actually necessary to do what they can do more efficiently. In fact, in the late 70s, the GAO (General Accounting Office) released a report study that said the USPS could save $100 million by closing 12,000 post offices, some of which serverved only a few people or were located absurdly close to other post offices. The postal union feared that would mean laying off people who were not needed anymore, so they pressured people in congress to oppose the closings and there the idea died. People in congress at the time didn't like it either because how would they get elected again in their district after losing several post offices and putting people out of work? In 1977, the USPS was under pressure to keep postal rates low. They wanted to suspend Saturday delivery. They estimated they would save $400 million a YEAR by doing so. The House at the time passed a resolution opposing the change in services, so the USPS had no choice but to drop the idea. My point is that the people in Washington, for their own political gain, prevent the changes necessary in the USPS that would allow them to become a "break even" service. The net result of that? They lost $2.8 billion dollars in fiscal year 2008. They lost somewhere between $3 billion and $6 billion in fiscal year 2009. All because of the politicians...the GOVERNMENT interfering with their business sense.
I think making the USPS a totally corportate entity would be BETTER than keeping it partially government-run. Case in point.. New Zealand corporatized their postal service in 1987. That change led to improvements in efficiency, a 40% reduction in the number of people required to run it, a doubling in worker productivity, a DECREASE in the cost of sending a letter, and a decrease in the price of a basic stamp. AND, they did all that without impacting service in either rural or urban communities.
Getting the federal government out of the way, the MARKET found a way to get it done at least as good but cheaper.
So, saying it can't be done without raising the price of a stamp to $2.00 is just not right, in my opinion.
Regards,
Brian
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Well, for one thing insurance companies will not be able deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
Cheers,
Neal
So, who pays the additional money for those people that we KNOW will need to use their insurance that now they're able to get..
Also, is there anything else that you like about this 1,000 page bill? Certainly there is more..
Brian
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Just for the record, I really would prefer to not have to buy a cow. If Neal's request goes through, I will be needing the USPS or Fed-Ex to ship my cow to Neal's so he can take care of it for me.
I think as acting Speaker of the Nuthouse, I should be able to waive my cow ownership requirement anyway.
Lori
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Lori, if this healthcare bill is any indication, then waiving that for the President and for members of congress and their staff would probably be part of the mandate. So, as Speaker, you'd be waived. ;)
Brian
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*lightly cracks whip!* ::)
Hi gang, I know this is "AN Community" and we generally don't use the whip in this forum, but please keep in mind that this is not a political discussion forum. I know there are political discussion forums on the internet.... but, honestly, gang... this is not one of them.
Can we keep the tone down a bit please? Honestly, this is now making my head spin.
So, yes, its "AN Community" but..... a little lighter in tone, ok? Deal?
Thanks.
Phyl
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I saw that coming.. In defense of our discussion, it's remained pretty civil. There has been "flaming" on either side, which is nice.. I agree that we have partially gotten off the medical topic (especially the side discussion between Steve and I about the USPS).. I'll keep it strictly about the health care bill and continue to do so without flaming anyone (which does nobody any good). I like healthy debate.. It helps you truly discover what you believe. :)
Thanks,
Brian
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I named one thing I liked about the bill. If you have everybody in the insurance pool, healthy and sick, that will pay for those previously denied coverage. BTW, that is how insurance is supposed to work. If you only have old and sick people of course it will be costly. That is what the insurance companies are asking for, as well.
This bill is a first step, it is not perfect. I look at it more as a work in progress. One of my problems from what I observe people want from healthcare is that many want everything under the sun covered and they pay nothing. Healthcare should be affordable, not free. For example: If I go for a blood work-up the bill from the lab is $300--after this is adjusted through my insurance plan it becomes $70, of which my insurance pays $56 and I pay $14.(aren't I lucky!) Someone without insurance is billed $300, and that is the amount of loss reported when they don't pay it. Now if it was $70 for everybody, I believe, more people would pay, the amount of coverage needed could be less and the overall cost to insure would be less.
Neal
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There has been "flaming" on either side, which is nice..
honestly, hon... no its not and against site rules (Please see Netiquettes for elaboration).
Not saying don't have this discussion... just tone it down a wee bit, ok? :) Emotions running a little amock on this..... healthy, respectable debate, fine... letting emotions overtake too much, not good.
Thanks folks.
Phyl
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Phyl,
Forgot to mention that I love the new picture too! And I, for one, am glad that the whip isn't aimed in my direction this time! See, my halo does stay straight sometimes! ;D
Lori
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I named one thing I liked about the bill. If you have everybody in the insurance pool, healthy and sick, that will pay for those previously denied coverage. BTW, that is how insurance is supposed to work. If you only have old and sick people of course it will be costly. That is what the insurance companies are asking for, as well.
This bill is a first step, it is not perfect. I look at it more as a work in progress. One of my problems from what I observe people want from healthcare is that many want everything under the sun covered and they pay nothing. Healthcare should be affordable, not free. For example: If I go for a blood work-up the bill from the lab is $300--after this is adjusted through my insurance plan it becomes $70, of which my insurance pays $56 and I pay $14.(aren't I lucky!) Someone without insurance is billed $300, and that is the amount of loss reported when they don't pay it. Now if it was $70 for everybody, I believe, more people would pay, the amount of coverage needed could be less and the overall cost to insure would be less.
Neal
Neal,
I think we're getting somewhere... In order to not allow pre-existing conditions, you must mandate the coverage. BUT, the Federal Government doesn't have the authority under our constitution to mandate a certain product or service. SO, you can either let the Federal Government outlaw the pre-existing condition of being able to get insurance forcing the insurance companies in each state to raise premiums or they outlaw the pre-existing condition and force each state to enact mandated insurance... But, constitutionally, the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to do both, as they've done.
I agree that it seems ludicrous that someone with insurance is billed at a lower rate than someone without. But, as you said, that's how insurance is supposed to work. If you pay your monthly premium (guaranteed money for the insurance company), then you have the privledge of paying a reduced rate for things. If you do not have healthcare, then you don't get that privelidge.
In my opinion, for a "first step", this is a bad one... Let alone them not having the constitutional authority to madate that everyone buy something. But, this bill is at odds with itself. To deny insurance companies the right to exclude based on pre-existing conditions means that premiums will necessarily go up (costs in general). To get to one of the other "aims" of this bill, lowering premiums, you either have to rob the money from some other program (Medicare Advantage, for instance) or force everyone to buy insurance with no regard to need or want or both.. You can't mandate at the federal level (explained why already), so either you take the money from even more programs OR you allow insurance companies the right to deny over pre-existing conditions. People can't have it both ways.. Personally, I think the insurance companies told Obama officials that it isn't possible to lower premiums AND extend coverage to pre-existing unless the pool is larger (mandate it for everyone) knowing good and well they couldn't do that at the Federal level. Just a hunch on my part though.
People don't willy nilly get insurance now... at least not employer provided ones. There are "enrollment periods". You can either enroll or deroll into the insurance during that window and that window only (at least in my state). Only unless there is a qualifying "life event" can you change insurance coverage out of that window (you get married or divorced for example). There may be some amount of that going on with privately purchased health insurance, but I'd venture to say that it's not a widespread problem overall.
How else does is solve the problems of the current system?
Regards,
Brian
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Phyl ~
Your concerns are valid and your cautionary words will be heeded, I'm sure. Frankly, I have no interest in debating anyone. However, I believe we're all entitled to have an opinion, whether for or against any relevant issue, especially one that will directly impact AN patients. If someone doesn't happen to share my 'published' opinion, I'm a big boy and can deal with that. Of course, I hasten to add that my PM box remains open to those who wish to support or assail my point of view and I strongly recommend the PM venue for those who desire to actually debate this or any other serious issue with another member.
That noted, in the interest of healthy, respectable discussion I'll offer the observation that the law just enacted by congress - accomplished by a process that I consider corrupt and that was embarrassing to watch - permanently changed the relationship of citizen and government, by design. From this point on and with more impact as more aspects of the current law are activated, government bureaucrats will control your health care to one extent or another. With the 'old' health care insurance system, our biggest problem was getting our health insurance company to authorize and/or pay for services we needed. However, there were avenues of appeal and every state had an insurance commission that could reverse an insurance company's decision and actually order them to pay. I know, because I successfully used that option in the past. In addition, if we wanted to forgo buying health insurance (as many under-30, single people do) we always had the option of (gasp!) paying for our medical care by using our own funds, even if we had health insurance. I seriously considered doing just that (via a second mortgage on my almost-paid-off condo) if my health insurance company had denied coverage for my six-figure AN surgery (plus another $50-60,000. for my FSR). Like most Americans, I'm of the (old) school that believes you do what you have to do. Rugged individualism and all that. However, I'm pleased to report that the insurance company (Blue Cross) paid the bills, as usually happens. This was why, prior to the passage of the euphemistically-named 'Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act ' or what is popularly called 'ObamaCare', over 80% of those polled said they were satisfied with their health care insurance, and why so many Americans are opposed to the new law. I don't believe it's all 'political'. Sure, it's was a very partisan legislative process but the outrage I'm seeing goes beyond party affiliation. I believe that reaction is based on American's innate understanding that, as the members of the U.S. House of Representatives dragged this near-dead horse (legislation) to a 'victory' (over whom? Republicans never had the votes to stop it) something seismic had occurred and with this new law and all of it's ramifications, something fundamental has radically changed in America - and it isn't good.
Health care costs will inevitably rise and our taxes will rise with them. That is a given. Unemployment will remain high because more 'small' (under 100 workers) employers - the major source of employment for most Americans - will chose to eliminate workers to save having to pay hefty fines for not carrying employee health care insurance or paying out more and more for employee health coverage every year as the system becomes overburdened with millions of people added to the system, some of them with chronic and/or serious illnesses that will require very expensive treatment. I foresee a 'European-style 'Value Added Tax' (on top of the federal and state income and sales tax) coming soon to America because when a government adopts a European-style 'universal' health care system with all of the problems that carries (the British NHS is notorious for it's deficiencies) multiplied by the sheer volume of people that will be added to the system, sooner or later - very likely sooner - you'll be obligated to adopt the European-style confiscatory taxes to pay for it. I won't even speculate on the number of doctors who will chose early retirement, the young would-be doctors who will decide to go to law school or get an MBA, instead, both depriving the health care system of the people it needs most because they will realize that having a government bureaucracy dictate their practice of medicine, their income and possibly where they'll work, most will choose not to participate. I can't blame them.
I believe the real point of contention for many Americans is the unpleasant reality that with this new 'health care' law in place, the price of being an American citizen is now having to carry medical insurance or pay a hefty fine for opting out....pick one. Yes, you can still pay for health care with your own funds - for now - but you'll also pay for health 'insurance' (or pay a fine/tax) whether you want to or not. This kind of government coercion (enforced by the feared IRS) is unprecedented in the United States of America and doesn't sit well with a majority of Americans. I cannot see how that reality, despite all the justifications, is anything but an infringement of personal freedom that millions of Americans are going to oppose and oppose vigorously. However, even if the voting control in the congress changes parties with the upcoming elections, I fear that this law will irrevocably change the U.S. health care system and, more importantly, change the citizens relationship with his/her government from a people who determine whats in their best interest when it comes to their health care to a citizenry that now has to depend on what largess a government bureaucracy in charge of their health care decides to extend to them, based on arcane rules and regulations as well as the availability of scarce medical personnel and overburdened facilities. This harsh reality, along with the onerous taxes and restrictions this new law will require as millions of people are added to the U.S. health care system are all prescriptions for problems and the usual unintended consequences this kind of feel-good legislation brings. This is a sea-change moment in America and frankly, I'm not optimistic about the future of U.S. health care. I believe that we've given up something vital (choice) and are seeing a redistribution of both wealth and, more importantly, health care in our country. Not 'access', as some politicians like to pretend. Access to health care has always been available and many have taken advantage of it in the past as I pointed out in an earlier book, er, post.
I believe that with incremental steps, including tort reform and allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines (with some level of federal regulation) would be a good beginning. However, that ship has left the dock and we're now in the very early stages of seeing what congress has wrought with the passage of 'ObamaCare'. I think there will be rough seas ahead. Of course I'm not clairvoyant and I could be wrong. Just in case, I'll try to remain healthy and, to keep the marine metaphor in play, I'll wear a life jacket. :)
Jim
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This is an interested Canadian political junkie here. Some very good reading and debating. I'm wondering if anyone has heard or read what Jessie Venture take is on this new health bill. I love a good old sh*t disturber ::)
Has any watch Food Inc? Now that's some food for thought!
Great picture Phyl, can you put some butter on the popcorn when you pass it my way ;D
Anne Marie
PS Neal, I also betting on CPP (Canadian Pension Plan) to be there in about 10 yrs when I'm retired, officially. The cup is always half full.
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Lori -
I think this is a Forum first. Phyl hasn't had to crack the whip at you - or me - this entire thread ;D
Jan
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Mmpph...Fed Ex...errgh...45 cents...maaww...New Zeal...ruahff...pre-existing...umph...free market....mwbm....Brad Pitt!
Ah. Found the magic words to make Phyl stop stuffing my mouth with popcorn. :D
I will side with Neal, and hope that, among other things, the small start on funding more preventative care will make a dent in the overall cost of health care. Not needing so much of it in the first place sounds like a great way to reduce the cost and be healthier at the same time. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Steve
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Popcorn tastes really really good with melted butter and a sprinkling of nutritional yeast flakes (full of B12- great for nerve rejuvenation)… The butter not as healthy as the nutritional yeast flakes though… some like it with salt… others with cayenne pepper.
I’ll be sure to call my broker ;) about Orville Redenbacher stocks… with all those kernels popping… the supply and demand is sure to make it a good investment now.
Oh and those looking for a great charitable donation to make for a tax shelter…. That is an easy one… the acronym starts with an “a†and ends with an “aâ€. :)
As far as getting a “layman’s terms†explanation I think the answers are coming at me like popcorn does when one forgets to place the lid on the kettle…
I think I will make it my mission to make sure that people who need prosthetics can have this covered on insurance (public private or otherwise)… which would include baha implants. (But I will also push the biomedical engineers to try and come up with a baha that can be worn under a safety helmet… be it for a bicycle, skiing, mountaineering, Harley or construction helmet… ;) What can I say I love Jan's brain and I want it protected. ;D )
I just know that a few of my ANA buddies might get right back to work if they could improve their hearing and perform better in the work place where hearing challenges them… But it is hard to fund that Baha without a job and insurance. It can be a vicious cycle for one too many. I just hope that those folks who are in between a rock and a hard spot get a break, understanding, and compassion from those who are more fortunate.
I think it is sooh wrong that an insurance company will not cover someone because they have/had an acoustic neuroma (ie preexisting condition)… in fact it is rather :-\ :P.
There are many sides to the debate I see…
I guess I just want all my fellow AN’er to have access to good medical care and appliances (Baha’s, eye weights etc) like anyone else… withOUT discrimination. It is so important, in support group meetings, that we do not have a sense of division between the haves and the have-nots. I just feel I want to provide support and help point my fellow AN’ers on a path that helps them get the best care they can- be it Botox for synkenisis or a hearing prosthetic to return to their livelihoods -as best they can. The more I can be educated and informed- the more I can pass on information to help them find avenues for funding.
I have decided to make sure there is a balanced mix of oil, kernels and hot air. I know that if you put in too many kernels the lid will just pop off all on its own with hot fluffy stuff flying every which where… but without hot air there is not popcorn.
I am going to reiterate the original question to my respected and cherished forumites
Is there a good (internet) link somewhere that explains this in LAYMAN's terms?
I am asking this no differently than when I asked, 2 + years ago, for a neuromuscular facial retraining therapist the Pacific Northwest- and you all pitched in to help me find information. Now we have a great therapist here when 2 years ago we didn’t have anyone. Many of us: patients, therapists, and an doctor networked together to get something set up as we indentified a need… and the ANA was instrumental in providing a network of sharing resources of information.
We all need to work together to get the education about Acoustic Neuroma's out there and the obstacle we patients face (both individually and as a group.) Yes there is going to be some polarized views but we MUST help each other gather information so we can help each other out- be it the single mom with two kids, the elderly person who can’t hear their grandchild’s small voice … or the famous barista who can’t hear if it was a caramel latte or a gingerbread latte that the lady just ordered. (BTW saw his face is on every SB door I enter in the PNW - on their “now hiring†posters)
I realize now that college kids CAN get coverage under their parents and no one is stuck between the tough financial decision of choosing between a college education or a tumor surgery. (This seems a good things to me)… No child with an acoustic neuroma will be denied treatment of an acoustic neuroma due to no insurance (and yes we have had kids with these in their teens not just us middle aged foggies)… I sat next to a very dear mom, at the Chicago symposium, who was so worried about what her daughter would do if there was ever re-growth and she would not be on their insurance plan once she reached her 20’s… Now they have time, less stress and less worry….
EG
So let us say a bright kid (acoustic neuroma surgery survivor) does graduate from college, gets a starting job at age 27 but the insurance benefit packet says “sorry you had an acoustic neuroma (pre –existing condition) we will NOT insure you for treatment� This 27 year old has massive student loan payment and also has to pay for cyber knife to treat the tumor re-growth out-of-pocket.
Please put your differences aside and let us do what we can, as a collective, to make sure that AN patients are NOT discriminated from for good care and coverage (public or private). Help people who come to us for guidance by pointing them to links etc as they not only figure out their best treatment option but how they are going to finance it when they think they cannot. (I know many people helped "the Captain" find funds for topomax for her headaches etc)
I have definitely eaten way too much popcorn… maybe I should start stringing it with cranberries for the tree… (In March? :-\ :D )
Scotty, Pearly Whites and Steve (our artist-in-residence poet) - I STILL love you. :-* :-* :-*
(Ewe ah Steve I think you have the makings for another great poem… what rhymes with “popcorn�… What rhymes with “health care� Gee those are toughies… HMMM ... maybe you may need to dig out DR Seuss for some help. Dr Seuss no doubt would have some great rhymes and illustrations for this topic. This one came close to the topic
http://www.amazon.com/Youre-Only-Once-Obsolete-Children/dp/0394551907 )
Daisy Head Maize :)
P.S Pssst Scotty... "Layman's terms" (Nevertheless since you entered my life my vocab has gone up tenfold :-*)
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Speaking of BAHAs etc, anyone have information about how the provision in this bill creating a tax on "medical devices" will do to the price of BAHA, Transear, etc? Just curious.
DMH, I know of no layman explanation of the law yet because we weren't told what was in it prior to the final vote. We were told that it would have to pass and THEN we could see what was in it (said Pelosi). Now that it's law, expect someone to put an explanation out within a few months or so I would expect. If I find one, I'll share.
Regards,
Brian
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G'mornin DHM, et al,
In answer to your question ("Is there a good (internet) link somewhere that explains this in LAYMAN's terms?"), .... yes, probably many, with google help. But a suggestion for your search: If you get websites from those on one side of the popcorn bowl (e.g. Steve and Neal), look also at websites from those on the other side (e.g. Brian and Jim) ..... and vice versa. Hopefully, you'll get a good idea of pros and cons .... or close thereto.
In other words, don't listen to those who tell you what to think .... listen to those who suggest how to think. Or not ... if you're mind is already made up. But you just might learn a bit more than you realized .... from the more than 2,000 pages (ugh!) that were not read before the vote.
And run fast from those who demand that they're opinion is not open to your opposite opinion. But that's just my opinion, with a mouthfull of light-butter-popcorn.
Have a great weekend.
Greg
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Yeast flakes on popcorn ??? :P
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That's what I said, Jan! :P Just butter and salt for me, thanks.
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Great debate and I love that a lot of different opinions have been shared, yet the discussion has remained very civil. Nice to see. :)
For law nerds like me, this is a really interesting subject. I would bet the farm that the Supreme Court will be hearing this case before it is all over, but what they do with it is anybody's guess. Generally, the Supreme Court gives great deference to things the Congress does under the Commerce Clause, however they have never gone quite this far before. I believe the key difference is that you can be subject to the penalty (tax? Whatever) without ever having done anything. This is a step removed from anything the government has done before. Congress will probably be arguing that by NOT buying insurance, an individual person is having an effect on the entire insurance market, thus Congress has power to require them to buy under the Commerce Clause. Still, I can't think of another example where a citizen is taxed or even required to purchase something without taking any action to be subject to that tax (work, buy something, apply for a license, etc). I just think this is inherently different.
It could really go either way, but I honestly believe the Supreme Court should find the Bill unconstitutional. I don't think the framers ever intended to give the government this much power. It's dangerous and I don't like the slippery slope it takes us down. I think there are a lot of other measures they could have taken before going this far. In my opinion, I believe they are trying to "ease" us into a true single-payer system. Boil the frog, so to speak. That's why I don't like it.
Lyn
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Boil the frog? ???
This is a link to an ABC News article from last week, titled "What Does it Mean For You?" It is just a description of some of the provisions that go into effect this year and on into 2014. It does not attempt to analyze the impact or consequences of any of them, so it is reasonably light on strong rhetoric either way.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/health-care-bill-obama-sign-bill-tuesday/story?id=10169801
I still the think the Supremes will not find it unconstitutional, or if they do, only in a way that requires rewording or revision, not striking it down completely. If they do, there are a lot of lawyers who could use that precedent to undo a lot of other measures related to federal taxation, opening Pandora's Box.
I wonder if Pandora's Box is filled with boiled frogs...
Steve
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anyone have information about how the provision in this bill creating a tax on "medical devices" will do to the price of BAHA, Transear, etc? Just curious.
The final bill imposed a 'medical device manufacturer tax ' totaling $19 billion with a $2 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to shares of sales made that year. That rises to $3 billion annually in 2017. The law exempts medical devices retailing for $100. I expect the manufacturers will 'pass on' the tax to consumers in the form of higher prices for their products.
Jim
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Boil the frog? ??? ....
...I wonder if Pandora's Box is filled with boiled frogs...
Steve
Stevie, (Am I the only one who gets away with calling you that? ;) :-* )
Lots of words rhyme with “Frogsâ€
• Bogs
• Cogs
• Clogs
• Dogs
• Fogs
• Grogs
• Hogs
• Jogs
• Logs
• Pogs (collecting game for kids)…
And know that Dr Seuss also made up rhyming words.
You can use “Zogs†in your poem and create a whole new creature with this title
After all I am convinced the doctor was struggling with beaches and came up with “Sneetchesâ€
Tracks … hmmm “Zax†(he avoided the "tax" word completely- brilliant mind was the Doctor)
The Sneetches and Other Stories – a must read manual for any forum moderator
HUGGLES
Daisy Head Mayzie (Is that spelt with a zee or a zed?)
Know that I STILL love you and I felt you were most worthy of being recommended as a co-leader... and still do :-*. Your poetry and limericks writing ability is an amazing gift... keeping tapping in on it.
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I still the think the Supremes will not find it unconstitutional,
Are we talking Diana Ross & the Supremes, here?? :D
Sorry, just couldn't leave that one alone ;D
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Wait. What? Diana Ross is boiling frogs in Pandora's box? I'm confused. ???
Lori
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Lori & Jan,
Keeling over...
You two are just too hilarious!
:D :D :D :D :D
Gawd my sides hurt :D
DHM
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I named one thing I liked about the bill. If you have everybody in the insurance pool, healthy and sick, that will pay for those previously denied coverage. BTW, that is how insurance is supposed to work. If you only have old and sick people of course it will be costly. That is what the insurance companies are asking for, as well.
This bill is a first step, it is not perfect. I look at it more as a work in progress. One of my problems from what I observe people want from healthcare is that many want everything under the sun covered and they pay nothing. Healthcare should be affordable, not free. For example: If I go for a blood work-up the bill from the lab is $300--after this is adjusted through my insurance plan it becomes $70, of which my insurance pays $56 and I pay $14.(aren't I lucky!) Someone without insurance is billed $300, and that is the amount of loss reported when they don't pay it. Now if it was $70 for everybody, I believe, more people would pay, the amount of coverage needed could be less and the overall cost to insure would be less.
Neal
BINGO ... what is what I was trying to say but you did so with less garble
OK ...as for cows ... I have 50 at my disposal and about 25 calves ranging from a week to 5 month old ... a couple weeks we will have some
weaned and ready to go ... wonder how many stamps it would take for a 500 pound feeder ???
as to pre-existing crapola ....I am not oppose to insurance companies having pre -existing clauses ... the buying insurance because you are
sick and need coverage for some procedure and then dropping coverage when well would break them
I have a problem when a company that takes over for another says they are providing you with a seamless transition as if you were still under your
other policy then treats you as preexisting as has been done to me ... BCBS took over from Cigna in June or July ( don't remember) of 2008 a year
after my surgery ... they told me at meeting with reps I would be fully covered but that has not been so .... a group of us with ongoing health
issues banded together and thought we had things worked out with BCBS but they still do for most of us differently than was stated ...
they told us that at plan revamp in July most all of us would no longer be considered pre-existing ... with my husbands pay stub yesterday
there was a nice note saying that we will still have a chance to voice veiws but that things may stand as is until July 2014 .... come see us in
July and we'll talk ....this is a bunch of bull ...I have found out that if I were to purchase a policy with them privately that pre-existing problems
would lose that designation anywhere from 6 month to a year after policy goes into force ...there is no such clause written into tis policy to that effect.
couldn' t afford them privately or I would have been dropped from husbands policy and taken a policy with them separate from Bo and the girls
the company Bo is with is locked into a 10 year contract with BCBS ....so we have a way to go ....and I have checked around and haven't been able
to find someone that wants to take me on with premiums I can pay
who I really need to be mad at is the man who got this put into place ...he paid no premiums , was pulling a half million dollar paycheck home and
the company paid what ever the policy didn't so he didn't give a hoot what it did to the rest of us ... the highest paid worked aside from several office
workers that are at about $120,000 annually , make $60,000 after taxes ... Bo considerably less at about $35,000 .... the former manager left about
8 month ago after being caught with his hand in the money jar ... he was not charged and didn't pay anything back ...he also took the company
from $4,000,000 in the good to 17 million in the hole putting in fiber optic cables through the county ....he already had another job lined up with another
municipal department in another Tennessee county ... and in return for not taking his retirement put back from fund (several millions ) and taking any
thing he would have received upon leaving such as continued insurance coverage for him and his wife , he would not pbe prosecuted ...
and you know what??? he was a city government and still is just somewhere else ...just think what he could accomplish on a national level ...
crawling back to my corner , thumb in hand
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:D
Just for those who are having a hard time following
What I love about the English language is similes, metaphors, homophones, and how it can play on humor. Know that even pronunciations of words in English are different from each county (EG "Z" in the USA is "ZEE" and in Canada and Britain "Zed") In Canada they spell humoUR with a "u"...
I have provided the definition to help any of our readers who may not have English as their first language and may take us as literally nuts (which in truth we are ;) happily so :D ) and for those who it is their 1st language but the are in a different continent and culture ... I did not want to leave anyone in-the-dust of our North American debate which has reached the headline of every international newspaper.
I bet Lori has much experience with kids at the elementary school age … She has the ability to break the ice and have many of us giggle as we get too complex with our language…
"Boil the frog"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
"Pandora's box"
http://www.answers.com/topic/pandora-s-box
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora's_box
The "Supremes"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Supremes
The "Supreme" court (USA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States
Dianna Ross
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Ross
Break the ice
http://www.allwords.com/word-break+the+ice.html
“Break the ice to ease the initial restraint or awkwardness of a meeting or social gatheringâ€
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861619823/ice.html
Left-in-the-dust
leave somebody/something in the dust
1. to move quickly away from someone or something If a big truck bears down on you from behind, this powerful car can leave it in the dust.
2. to replace someone or something with something new This new computer virus left last year's killer virus in the dust.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/left+in+the+dust
Lori you are a true asset to our forum (Gawd Lori you have a great sense of humoUr!... a gift up there with Steve’s limericks and hat knitting
Anyway thus my reason for the definition links… so others new to the forum, those outside the US , and are trying to figure this out… are not in the dark.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/left+in+the+dark.html
You know there is nothing worse than being caught in the dark with no pants. And if you are starting to misinterpret that I first suggest reading Dr. Seuss’s Sneetches book that has a quick short story titled: What was I scared of?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories
I am convinced that although these Seuss books were created to get kids to find fun reading – they were definitely written at a figurative level to address the adults who are reading to the child.
What I love about the “Wiki†idea is in helps others to get the quick jest of a topic…
Anyway I want to remain sensitive to this guideline that Pearly Whites posted
quote
Pls read: Updated Forum Netiquette Guidelines
« on: April 06, 2008, 11:06:31 AM »
Recognize and Accept Cultural and Linguistic Differences
The Internet is international, and while English is generally accepted as the common language of the network, ANA and forum subscribers cannot afford to take the position that everyone on the Internet understands English well. It is important to be polite and understanding of others on the list who may have difficulty using the English language, just as one would be when meeting someone from a foreign country in person.
Additionally, care should be taken when using local idiom and slang. A common word or phrase used by Americans in everyday speech, for instance, might be taken as profanity or insult by those in other English-speaking countries, and may not be understood at all by non-native speakers of English. It is probably best to avoid non-standard English so as to provide the clearest and least-objectionable exchange of ideas.
Steve knows we all love him- but other readers may not realize that. (Well I hope Steve knows that) We are only teasing him about a play on words as he is in a tough job of being a moderator when words of others can be misinterpreted.
Know Steve that even though we tease you- it is because we love you!
DHM
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a while back my husband asked me what I had done all day ... I told him I had gone to my Moms to help her kill rats ...in horror he asked if
she had so many rats that she needed help to kill them and couldn't just set a couple traps ... after giggling to the point of threat of wetting
pants I had to explain I had went to help her run errands
back to regularly scheduled program
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Soundy: go on with your bad self !!!!
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Sorry, I thought "boil the fog" was a more common saying. I meant that the are trying to implement a huge change gradually so that the public won’t be as shocked and are less likely to fight it. I think the intention of the Democrat party in the US is to move to a true single-payer healthcare system- universal healthcare like we see in many other countries, if you will- and they think this is merely a first step toward that goal. I don’t believe they intend this Bill to “fix†healthcare in the US, just be a first step toward their true goal. That’s essentially what I meant by “boil the frog†when I spoke about this healthcare bill. They think we will accept the change if they do it gradually. (And the old saying about boiling a frog is: If you put a frog into boiling water, it will jump out. BUT, if you put it in a pot of room temperature water and very gradually turn up the water, it will stay put. Boiled frog.)
And Steve, I really do disagree that the Supreme Court overturning this would allow many other things related to taxation to be overturned. Like I said before, the real distinction in this case is the fact that this Bill allows the IRS to tax people for doing absolutely nothing. You aren’t working, you aren’t applying for a license or permit, you aren’t buying anything- you are NOT engaged in any sort of Commerce. You are taxed for merely being in the US and not having health insurance. There isn’t anything out there that I am aware of that is analogous to that. I just don’t believe the power granted to Congress under the Commerce Clause was ever meant to go there. I could make a slippery-slope argument building on that power that goes really far. It practically gives Congress unlimited power to regulate anything that might have an effect on the market in the US. Well…..anything you do has an effect on the market somehow. Before, you always had to actively do something to subject yourself to taxation. You could sit in your house and do nothing and be left alone. Now, there seems to be no “right†to be left alone from the government. That is a step farther than anything I am aware of. Personally, I don't like it. I'm not an "ends justify the means" kind of person. There are other ways.
Lyn
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Stevie ??? :D ;D
Janney
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Stevie ??? :D ;D
Janney
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D dhm
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Lyn,
How would you feel if they changed the wording, and said they are adding a $1,000 health insurance tax, but you get a $1,000 tax credit if you have health insurance?
For all those hermits out there who don't work, have no income, and own nothing, and pay no property tax or sales tax or income tax, I think they are off the hook. You have to have a minimum income, for instance, for it to apply.
The interesting thing is that providing medical care is an unusual kind of service. There are laws that require giving care to someone in critical condition, regardless of whether they have insurance or means to pay for it. That means that by merely existing, every individual adds to the risk pool. I think that will provide the necessary wiggle room to allow taxing someone for "doing nothing."
As for boiling the frog, I firmly believe that no one is planning that far ahead. It will be up to future politicians to go for a single payer system, if any of them choose to try. Right now those future politicians are too busy trying to finish up law school. ;)
Stevie
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As for boiling the frog, I firmly believe that no one is planning that far ahead. It will be up to future politicians to go for a single payer system, if any of them choose to try. Right now those future politicians are too busy trying to finish up law school. ;)
Stevie
There are many sides to the coin… and I think there is NO perfect socialized health care system to follow.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/other+side+of+the+coin.html
Many people think that Canada has a “National†Health care system… where in fact is does not. It is actually “provincially†run. Not all provinces are running their systems as well as each other… some have more strengths and weaknesses than others.
The province of BC is in the middle of a HUGE geriatric crisis… The biggest problem is that it is Canada’s “Banana belt†(no they do not grow bananas there it is a Canadian figure of speech) as many Canadians retire to there because of the milder climate.
Banana belt defined
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_belt
The problem being that many people want to retire to BC … but the infrastructure was not equipped for this huge aging population… and is barely catching up with the demand. These retirees did not pay into the BC healthcare but in fact plans in other provinces- yet they are using the healthcare system (and budget) most- in BC… to which many did not pay fees into during their working life (nor BC taxes) in their youth. Here are some links to look at
Ontario Health care
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/
BC Health care
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/insurance/about_hi.html
Alberta health care
http://www.health.alberta.ca/health-care-insurance-plan.html
2005 archive news story in US media about Canada
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml
This month’s news in Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-health-minister-defends-modest-spending-hikes/article1488931/
All is NOT peaceful in Canada as some may think- here is another story
http://www.nationalpost.com/life/health/story.html?id=1328987
I have had some very questionable healthcare here since my arrival in the USA over a decade ago and some days I have felt my good insurance card was viewed as an “open access platinum gold visa card†as I truly have encountered some greedy physicians who exploited this (and me). I have only encountered a few very professional medical staff I felt I could trust who’s ideals for patient wellness was a more important value to them than making a huge profit (or funding a medical research project :-\ .)
However also know I have had some horrendous :-[ waiting situations in Canada with relatives and myself to which ER rooms or surgical room waiting lists failed us.
BOTH sides have huge problems …
However both systems have some great strength too.
As long as the debate remains polarized then solutions will NOT happen and problems and discrepancies will only get worse.
Much like the ZAK’s created by Dr. Seuss (in the book I already mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories… the arguers can get SOOH embroiled they neglect to see the world rapidly changing around them.
Reform and tax paid healthcare has already come through the US door… and as we continue to argue like the Zak’s. …Meanwhile acoustic neuroma patients still can be *left in the dust. (* idiom)
* http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/left+in+the+dust
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/left+in+the+dust
We, as acoustic neuroma patients, have needs to be met and we should work “as a collective†to achieve these.
• AN patients who have a hearing device (baha prosthetic or otherwise) will perform better in the workplace if they can hear better… and some may be more employable if they have access to a devise. (Ie getting out of the unemployment line) These should be covered on insurance… Yes some folks can re-mortgage as they have built up years of equity to get one. However the 27 year old with a student loan debt and no credit rating to finance one- won’t be able to afford a baha… and may not succeed at the job interview because of the hearing impairment.
AN patients who have facial nerve damage have a myriad of other issues.
• The eye weight should be covered on insurance
• The Botox is not a just cosmetic injection to give us symmetry it is actually is “pain management†to give relief from the hypertonic muscles that can really hurt.
• A temporalis tendon transfer is NOT just cosmetic.
• Here is a Canadian new article about this procedure
• http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070718/facial_surgery_070718/20070718?hub=Health
• Before and after photos of this surgery
• http://www.hopkinsfacialplastics.com/gallery_facial_reanimation.php
A placid face not only makes it impossible to smile and make facial expressions for communication… it is also hard to keep food in and EAT (dental issues can arise too)… This plastic surgery is NOT cosmetic…. Yet some people have had to pay out-of-pocket as insurance see this as “cosmeticâ€
Vestibular therapy is a must for many who need to stand up right and move in their job- in order to get back to work sooner… yet not always covered by insurance if an in network PT is not available.
So meanwhile as the ZAK’s keep arguing and the highway builders simply create a bi-pass around them… they are left in the dust.*
What can we as a collaborating peaceful collective of Acoustic Neuroma patients do to be heard? What can we do to make sure our fellow AN’er are not discriminated against?
(I personally want a budding young law school student with an interest in politics on OUR side- especially since they have walked some miles in our shoes of the acoustic neuroma journey… and they have witnessed first hand that their fellow ANA buddies came out with many more complications, than others, and they sure need some help)
What as a collective, peaceful group of well-articulated acoustic neuroma patients, can WE do to get our voices heard so our acoustic neuroma issue can be heard- so we can be part of finding those solutions? What can we do to get insurance (private, public, or otherwise) to cover Baha’s, eye weights, Botox, plastic surgery, Topomax… I am sure others can contribute to the list… such as the gallons of eye drops purchased each year. What about giving an acoustic neuroma patient enough time off to actually recover properly, at home, before forcing them back to work when they are not yet ready… and some have inevitably lost their jobs as they were not ready yet to perform at their pre-surgery abilities?
Daisy Head Mayzie
PS
Currently I feel like a Who from Whosville... (as well as Daisy Head Mayzie ;) ) in Dr. Suess's Horton Hears a Who
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horton_Hears_a_Who!
... or maybe more a "spec of dust" than a Who...
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Steve,
I go to school with a few people that I could imgaine as politicians one day. Fortunately, I don’t think any of you will ever see my name on a ballot. . .
I will admit that I am ignorant about how they actually have the tax (penalty?) arranged. Are you sure that if you make no income in a given year you aren’t subject to the penalty? In other words, if I make no income in year 1 and have no health insurance, but then get a job and file a return in year 2, will I be penalized for years 1 and 2 or only year 2- the year that I had income? Not sure. Also, how does it work with children? Are we penalized if we don’t insure our children?
Like I said before, I really see the Supreme Court going either way. I wish they would find it unconstitutional, but I’m not yet a lawyer, much less a Supreme Court Justice. Such legal reasoning is a little above my pay grade. :D
Lyn
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Lyn,
Yes, there is definitely a low income exception, as well as financial assistance for getting health insurance for anyone below a certain income.
I too am curious how it works with children. I came across this link, which is the insurance director in Massachusetts, answering questions about how the new Fed law will interact with the Mass. law. The Mass. law has been in place since 2006, with a mandate for individual insurance.
http://www.telegram.com/article/20100328/NEWS/3280504/0/news06
It seems like a useful point of reference to me. They are currently at 97% insured, which is pretty good. As far as I can tell, yes children have to be covered too, and insurance policies have to cover them, and at certain income levels they qualify for assistance too.
Steve
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I came across this link, which is the insurance director in Massachusetts, answering questions about how the new Fed law will interact with the Mass. law. The Mass. law has been in place since 2006, with a mandate for individual insurance.
http://www.telegram.com/article/20100328/NEWS/3280504/0/news06
Steve,
This is a great... just sort of link in LAYMAN's terms I am looking for ... that I can share with others.
THANKS
:-*
DHM
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DHM -
I think you might be ready to graduate from Dr. Seuss to say...Judy Blume? :D
Lori
* no frogs were harmed in the posting of this post *
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DHM -
I think you might be ready to graduate from Dr. Seuss to say...Judy Blume? :D
Lori
* no frogs were harmed in the posting of this post *
We skipped the Tales of a 4th grade Nothing after the 1st chapter (ho hum) :-\ ;) and moved right into the City of Ember…
Jeanne has grabbed much more attention from my little readers- than Judy ever did…
:D
DHM
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I think you might be ready to graduate from Dr. Seuss ... J
Lori,
On a more serious and sensitive note…
My youngest is beyond picture books and now into reading stories with a more sophisticated plot where she has to use her own imagination to draw pictures to the words she reads. I have been clearing out the book shelves- this spring. In addition to books in boxes the toys are all in bags -waiting in the garage for sorting and purging. We need to decide either/or to sell stuff on e-bay, have a garage sale … donate to the library…or take it all to the Goodwill.
There are a few authors that the kids just would NOT part with and one was Dr. Seuss. These are now timeless classics .He was a writer/ illustrator ahead of his time who wrote layered books on many levels in such a simple and often wonderfully silly format. I too do not want to part with these specifically as they are layered books written on many levels that make ALL ages think and question. (Albeit the kindergartner or the head of the neurosciences department at a prestigious university.)
My youngest child finished studying WWII and is now into the Cold War era of her North American History lessons… she was very quick to point out that it was much like Seuss’s The Butter Battle Book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Butter_Battle_Book
She wanted to know why there was NOT a happy ending in that Dr. Seuss book… I explained that the Berlin Wall DID come down but not until after it was written. I also explained we know with Korea this sort of conflict is still happening and not resolved. I explained that as gently and sensitively as possible as to NOT make a child fill with fright and fear - rather than imaginary wonder (that we so need to cherish and nurture in childhood.) The Butter Battle Book was actually a “banned book†from USA public library shelves during the Cold War. I am sure there were many sides to that decision also. What prevailed was the “freedom of speechâ€.
Know that USA is very unique in that right, to its citizens, to which does have others envious. The four freedoms are what I SOOH most admire about living in the USA.
“Four freedoms†defined (for our non-USA readers)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms
(Remember that we are writing and posting on the “world wide web†and anyone can read what we are posting here… except maybe those who reside where it, and the Google search engine, is banned)
Children and adults alike tweak in when there is a limerick. Moderator Steve’s limerick was a BRILLIANT piece (or was that “peaceâ€) of writing that brought many people together. Even those who do not celebrate Christmas loved it and praised his work. Praise came from all over the globe. The link is below for any who want to read it again.
http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?topic=5644.0
I am an educator who has years of working with gifted children… sadly many go unidentified as "gifted" until their adult years. There is no doubt about it in my mind that Steve was most likely a gifted child… Those of us on the forum and those who live in the same locale as him were lucky to discover his gifts in adulthood. (Many gifts beyond computer use)
http://stevegerrard.home.comcast.net/~stevegerrard/Hats/Hats.html
Dr. Seuss is no longer with us anymore to write a book about this VERY delicate topic … but we do have among us a brilliant limerick writer who has the ability to bring us together, to have us put aside our differences, and make us smile and giggle together- as a group as we discuss a difficult and sensitive topic. I also know of a brilliant artist on this forum (hint- wears a captain’s hat but some days her complexion is a shade of blue with pointy ears) and I bet the two of them could connect to create something as brilliant as the famous “DR†has done in past years.
One other book that our family could not part with was
Ed Young’s book Seven Blind Mice
http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Blind-Mice-Caldecott-Honor/dp/0399222618
Many educational administrators use this, contract negotiators and teachers today … and perhaps moderators of forums use it too. It speaks of the importance of hearing ALL sides before judging and allows the one last mouse to listen to ALL parties first then help them examine the bigger picture. The one little mouse points out that all sides are valid but together in dialogue they proved a bigger picture existed …and it was indeed a huge elephant. It is a simple colorful book that presents this idea in a non-confrontational way that ALL can understand. Art can be a “universal language†right up there with music, math, dance, and sign language (and we do not have to be deaf to learn that language either - we just have to be motivated to communicate with the hearing impaired.)… You do not have to be proficient in the English language to understand the message of Ed Young’s Seven Blind Mice book mentioned above. Picture books are so important to hang on to… I hope I never graduate ;) out of these- or others.
When there is an *elephant-in-the-room* (English idiom)- a moderator’s job is very important.
If there is an elephant-in-the-room let’s hope it is one as kind as Horton. ;)
Below are links for our readers not familiar with English language or for those who are -but from another continent or culture.
"Elephant-in-the-room" IDIOM defined
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/elephant+in+the+room.html
Who is Horton?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horton_the_Elephant
DHM :)
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I am partial to "Green Eggs and Ham"... and "The Grinch that Stole Christmas" (a MUST in my multi-religious home each holiday season).
I am also partial to eating popcorn, sitting on sofas, watching such fun that I am underpaid and overworked to help watch/listen. :)
Phyl
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Btw, anyone outside of Mass should take the link provided with a grain of salt.. It was specifically a Q and A about how the Federal law interacts with the State laws very similar interact with each other. It wasn't a Q and A about the Federal law and it certainly didn't cover any where near all aspects of it.. (e.g. the provision providing for the "rehab" of pedophiles on indian reservations just to name one)..
Carry on..
Brian
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I love Dr. Seuss - when I taught 1st grade I would have a Dr. Seuss day every year on his birthday (March 2 - 2 days before mine!) - we would all dress up, play games and I would fix green eggs (& then we would graph the students' likes and dislikes)...I am realizing more and more what a FUN teacher I was! :o
K ;D
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Btw, anyone outside of Mass should take the link provided with a grain of salt..
... and for those of us living in MA, watching unemployment still rank higher than the national average, watching my downstairs neighbors still not able to afford healthcare (even tho' it's the law here in MA)... watching my dad hit the medicare Rx "donut hole" (although noted to be one of the first points of the new plan to be helped)....and watching me, lose my job in mid-May (after 10 yrs of working for my company) and trying to figure out, with all of my multiple ails, how I'm going to handle the extensive out of pocket..... well, me thinks I'll move me and da bloke, back to his "motherland" (ie: the UK) for healthcare.
Ok, just kidding on that last point. You all are still stuck with me here.. and I'm still stuck in MA.
Phyl
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I love Dr. Seuss - when I taught 1st grade I would have a Dr. Seuss day every year on his birthday (March 2 - 2 days before mine!) - we would all dress up, play games and I would fix green eggs (& then we would graph the students' likes and dislikes)...I am realizing more and more what a FUN teacher I was! :o
K ;D
Kaybo
NO “WASâ€!
Up until this little gem was brought my attention I though that deafness and facial paralysis was a reason to stay out as “front of the class(room)†as I would put my students at disadvantage.
Here is the movie (only sold in Hallmark stores of all bizarre places) but available on Netflix
Front of the class DVD
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1292594/
Trailer on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuhyVHLlfXE
Hi amazing book that the film is based on
http://www.amazon.com/Front-Class-Tourette-Syndrome-Teacher/dp/1889242241
Interview about his book
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUu42eiawYw
Our acoustic Neuroma journey is not going to be a detriment to us as teachers- it is our ally. (Our cup is not half empty it IS half full)
Know that Daisy Head Maizie does get back into the classroom … but not until after an amazing journey with that abnormal growth in her head.
People want to silence Daizie, remove her, exploit her (Finagle the agent ;) ) … and she does hit a crisis in loneliness but with acceptance and love she went back to the classroom context... to not only be accepted but to fit in just fine.
Kay with your amazing positive attitude, photography ability and now more newfound understanding and compassion for others with struggles and disadvantages (who face discrimination) … NO “was†here … it should read, “am†.
Re word that in “your mind†to
“I am realizing more and more what a FUN teacher I AM!â€
Signed Daisy Head Mayzie
(Just your average kid with a weird thing in her head that has “roots goes down to her brains †;))
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The majority of my classroom teaching career was AFTER I had AN surgery. I have never let my (to some) funny looking face stop me - heck, part of the time I even had my eye sewn shut too! ;D I have always been of the opinion that my students left MY classroom with a much broader realm of learning than the 3 R's - I stressed PEOPLE and how no matter what they look like on the outside - it is always what is inside that counts. I have every confidence that I could go back into the classroom tomorrow and pick up where I left off - I chose to quit (& was fortunate enough to do so) and raise my girlies! Actually, I do still teach monthly RESPECT lessons at the Middle School where Addi attends - even did one in the Boys' Locker Room for about 50 6th Grade boys (acoustics HORRIBLE) - glad no one decided to use the urinal I was facing!! YIKES!!!!
K ;D
*once a teacher, always a teacher - just not getting paid for it anymore!*
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I'm not sure how we've gone from Health Care Reform to Dr. Seuss, but for the record let me just say that my favorite Dr. Seuss' are Too Many Daves and What was I Scared Of? (the one with the pants with nobody inside them). Come to think of it, I'm not sure these are Dr. Seuss stories - maybe they're just in a book with stories by him ???
Getting back to the top at hand - I'm totally opposed to this whole Health Care Reform bill :(
Jan
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*once a teacher, always a teacher - just not getting paid for it anymore!*
Well not getting paid financially ;)... but the rewards reaped are greater than anything money can ever by... Especially when spending time with our own kids. Time is more valuable than money isn't it?
I wish more kids, in this world, had more access to their parent(s) than they do their electronic media... that sadly many buy their kids as a substitute.
Teaching in front of a urinal in a boys locker room... THAT is a very funny image- in my mind that is being created on your words here. :D... To have me smirking the entire day (Thanks for sharing that one! :-*)
More learning does take place outside of the classroom- doesn't it?
DHM :)
P.S. Jan- hmmm my bike helmet also can double as a popcorn bowl... except the butter leaks out the air hole but the nutritional yeast seem to stay on top. ;) ;D Anyone have a good recipe for Caramel popcorn?
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... and for those of us living in MA, watching unemployment still rank higher than the national average, watching my downstairs neighbors still not able to afford healthcare (even tho' it's the law here in MA)... watching my dad hit the medicare Rx "donut hole" (although noted to be one of the first points of the new plan to be helped)....and watching me, lose my job in mid-May (after 10 yrs of working for my company) and trying to figure out, with all of my multiple ails, how I'm going to handle the extensive out of pocket..... well, me thinks I'll move me and da bloke, back to his "motherland" (ie: the UK) for healthcare.
OK, just kidding on that last point. You all are still stuck with me here.. and I'm still stuck in MA.
I guess that means you still plan to attend the AN brunch, right? :D Besides, the NHS is notorious for it's waiting lists and sub-par care so I doubt you'd want to move to the UK anytime soon. Oh, and the current unemployment rate in the U.K. stands at almost 8% (actually, 7.8%), a tad better than Massachusetts 10%-plus, -but not much.
Unfortunately, the new health care 'reform' law is nothing close to what the politicians who promoted it claimed it would be. Medicare recipients (Jim reluctantly raises his hand) will see their benefits reduced and taxes will most certainly rise - on everyone - not just the elusive 'rich'. Major corporations are announcing the cost of the 'reform' and for big companies such as AT&T, it's in the billions (with a 'B'). That won't spur hiring any time soon. This 'reform' was sold as a boon to the uninsured but all it will really do is lower the quality of our formerly excellent heath care system due to overburdening it and having costs shifted - but not really 'reduced'. The 'root out waste and fraud in Medicare' rationale used to sell how some of the cost of this 'reform' will be paid for was a fallacy from Day One. The revenue shortfall will be in the trillions and new taxes will have to be imposed to pay for it, such as the European-model Value Added Tax. This doesn't include the loss of jobs incurred when businesses downsize or freeze hiring to cover the increased costs of this health care 'reform' law. In short; we'll all be receiving a lower standard of health care - and paying more for it. Folks with multiple medical problems, such as you, Phyl, and my wife, (the lovely and gracious) Tina, will be getting far less medical help than previously and paying higher prices for what you do get. Everyone's health care choices will be curtailed, dictated by unaccountable government bureaucracies. I don't believe this is what the American people wanted. Health care reform, yes, but not a draconian alteration of our health care system, run by government bureaucrats and paid for with much higher taxes while we receive a reduced level of medical care, including rationing. As a very reluctant Medicare recipient, I'm deeply concerned. We should all be concerned, deeply or otherwise. This is no small thing that 'other people' will have to deal with. This will affect every American in one way or another. Politician's attempts to deny the unpleasant realities (in our health care) that they've wrought or simple partisan political loyalties that want to see only the positive ('everyone is covered!') won't change that. I wish that they could.
To quote the libertarian/conservative journalist P.J. O'Rourke: If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free. Well, the waiting is about over and the harsh reality is coming to your house very soon. You may want to call a doctor. No, wait, that probably won't be covered by the new health insurance 'reform' law. Oh, well. I guess elections really do have consequences, which is why I can't wait for the next one (November 2nd - mark your calendar).
Jim
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I find Dr Seuss more interesting right now than real ones and the health care /insurance issues ...we have a big Dr Seuss birthday blowout every year at school... you can get your picture with the Cat in The Hat ...we need a new Cat In The Hat for next year ... the one who has done it for last 3 years is going off to high school ... looking for someone who will fit in the costume
I received from my 6th graders teacher 3 Jan Brett books I purchased online from scholastics ...3 Jan Bretts that husband (yes husband) doesn't have ... the girls when small found a Jan Brett they just had to have ...The Mitten ...they got it and printed their hands in front cover and gave it to Daddy for Christmas ...he still reads to them and Jan Brett is a tradition ... he is starting to get a bit gloomy because his babies are growing up
Hey Daisey Head ... I know a garage sale or ebay might gain you some $$$ ...and Goodwill would do so for their cause ... but something we have done and has gone over well is take gently used , outgrown books to school and have teachers give them to kids that don't have many books of their own ... we have a fund during Book Fair week and try to put books in kids hand who otherwise can't afford them ... there are maybe a dozen or so of us that pass our kids books back to school to kids without ...
stemming from watching kids who given a book of their own , read it and take pride in it ...if a kid doesn't have books in his home and only exposed to them at school they kinda become a chore ...I even pick up books from yard sales and Goodwill and thrift store , to redistribute to the have nots ... and for little kids 3rd grade and under we also try to give the haves a book a year too ...never too many books ...
getting back on my ship and abandoning my high jacking operation
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......sitting down on the couch with her bowl of popcorn sprinkled with cinnamon, sugar and a little salt.i]
AHEM........when you begin to read this monstrosity you will see for yourselves that this is the biggest power grab by our government for control. Under this lovely plan you can only receive so much care per year, you will have no choice to choose your benefits, the government will have real-time access to our finances and elective funds transfers, private information regarding our health, education, and major portions of the US constitution. healthcare? REALLY?!
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Excellent points, Omaschwannoma.
I'm with the group that feels this is unconstitutional - despite what "the Supremes" (or even Diana Ross) might thing.
Jan
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Jan I agree, this is not looking good....I'm worried where this will bring us as a country.
If this goes south my husband and I are planning to move to Antigua to open a shaved ice stand with our two dogs!!!!
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Soundy, We don't hear of other Jan Brett fans too often. Our family has been due to our youngest daughter when in late teens to twenties having had 2 pygmy hedgehogs at various times. We went to Omaha once to a booksigning which was such fun. She has such a neat website too. Sarah even had a hedgie with her one semester with her in her own room at college. I also discovered in time that I was very allergic to hedgehog dander. It is the only thing I have ever had wheezing with. After she lost them over time with illness,gave up and now has kitties. So fun to hear of your family liking Jan Brett.
Cheryl R
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I
Hey Daisey Head ... I know a garage sale or ebay might gain you some $$$ ...and Goodwill would do so for their cause ... but something we have done and has gone over well is take gently used , outgrown books to school and have teachers give them to kids that don't have many books of their own ... we have a fund during Book Fair week and try to put books in kids hand who otherwise can't afford them ... there are maybe a dozen or so of us that pass our kids books back to school to kids without ...
Soundy,
Brilliant idea! I will contact the local public school and attempt to do just that to see how they best think these should be distributed.
I am making sure that my kids are being well versed on the healthcare issues in both Canada in the USA … and do not let one government manipulate their education on this - one way or the other. In fact I have had my high school eldest follow some of our ANA threads and news stories from various sources on the healthcare bill… especially since she will be a voter in a couple of years. (Jim Scott's writing has her asking me the most questions ;)- for sure. )
I am a big advocate of the one-person-one-vote democracy here in the USA- over the parliamentary one however the public has a responsibility to keep themselves educated and informed if this democracy is to work and be affective. My concern is when people only get their information from just one TV network (or AM radio) source and do not read (watch and/or listen to) the other views. When the TV viewer is stuck on one channel and becomes "the voter"- that is a very scary concept.
Truth is I want to see the “entire document†(health bill) in print now. (Is it really 2000 pages as someone posted? :o ) Sometimes I feel we are a discussing an elephant that we have not seen (or read) in its entirety. I guess it is not written in layman's terms by any stretch of the imagination?
I guess I want to be the mouse that listens to ALL sides and runs all over the big huge thing- to understand the big picture in its entirety.
Scotty (aka Jim Scott)- you are actually helping to educate my whole family. Know that the following words went up on the “vocabâ€: list on our big white board from this thread:
• Idiom (simple one just for my 5th grader)
• eminent domain
• constitutional muster
• legally-constituted
• arbiters
• supplicant
• hyperbole
• vindicated
• straw man (idiom)
• demonizing
• belabor
• germane
I think my high school eldest is going to surprise her teachers when she starts throwing in these words into her assignments. (Well of course I am making them-all look up words they don’t know!) I can’t wait until we take out the scrabble board on this predicted PNW wet weather weekend… However know the teenager would rather be texting friends (know texting is totally sabotaging the next generation’s English writing skills big time)… and borrowing the car keys instead… instead of playing scrabble with her middle-aged parents (ho Hum :-\)
If we ever have a scrabble contest with the ANA forumites I want moderators Scotty and limerick-writing- Stevie on my team!!!! Although ;) how will we know if they are not making up words like Dr. Seuss did... Hmmm??)
JS-You truly are beaming us up.
“Beam me up Scotty!â€
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_me_up,_Scotty
Cheryl,
Jan Brett IS an amazing illustrator. Beautiful detail in her artwork.
DHM
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If this goes south my husband and I are planning to move to Antigua to open a shaved ice stand with our two dogs!!!!
Sounds like an excellent idea. Count me in ;D
Jan
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for your morning coffee/tea/beverage reading pleasure.... from today's Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/03/30/romney_defends_massachusetts_health_care_law/
a little snipet.... you can read the rest at the link above:
"Romney defends Mass. health care law
Points to differences from Obama overhaul
By Sasha Issenberg
Globe Correspondent / March 30, 2010
AMES, Iowa — Mitt Romney offered an enthusiastic defense last night of the comprehensive health care law he helped create four years ago in Massachusetts, even as he pointed to crucial distinctions between it and a similar national program enacted last week by Democrats.
Overall, ours is a model that works,’’ Romney said in response to a question after a speech at Iowa State University. “We solved our problem at the state level. Like it or not, it was a state solution. Why is it that President Obama is stepping in and saying ‘one size fits all’ ’’?
Obama’s signing of a federal health care law has put Romney — a possible 2012 presidential candidate — again on the defensive over the most significant achievement in his brief career in public office. The former governor, who has been mentioned as a possible candidate again for president in 2012, had labeled Obama’s bill “unhealthy for America’’ and has called for its repeal, even as conservative critics say it was modeled on Romney’s policy........"
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I am a big advocate of the one-person-one-vote democracy here in the USA
Me, too. Too bad the electoral college blows this idea straight to hell.
One person, one vote? In the United States??
There have been several times that the President won the popular vote and lost the election.
Jan
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If this goes south my husband and I are planning to move to Antigua to open a shaved ice stand with our two dogs!!!!
Sounds like an excellent idea. Count me in ;D
Jan
me too... and Captn Deb will guide the PBW safely to its shores! Aye Matie! :)
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DH Mayzie ..... answering a question you posed a while back .... "Anyone have a good recipe for Caramel popcorn?" .... one suggestion is: pop popcorn .... open bag .... unwrap caramel .... eat both. ;D
Perhaps it'll go well with shaved ice in Antigua.
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Wiki tells me the main sport there is cricket
Quote
“Sport: The major Antiguan sport is cricketâ€
Anyone know how to play?
I have not a clue…
Here is one of the newspapers
http://www.antiguaobserver.com/
… hmmm our little discussion of USA health care bill NOT even on their news headlines today there…
Pearly Whites I found a recipe for caramel popcorn ;D (Grega’s recipe did not turn out so well and he is now fired ;) as the cruise chef :D)… Do you have any brown sugar?
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Caramel-Popcorn/Detail.aspx
DHM
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I know cricket... and did you see my post above for the updated news, brought you by the Boston Globe and Mitt Romney? :) As for the carmel corn, I stay clear of it.... pulls out my teeth fillings! Like to keep me pearly whites all pearly white! ;D
Wiki tells me the main sport there is cricket
Quote
“Sport: The major Antiguan sport is cricketâ€
Anyone know how to play?
I have not a clue…
Here is one of the newspapers
http://www.antiguaobserver.com/
… hmmm our little discussion of USA health care bill NOT even on their news headlines today there…
Pearly Whites I found a recipe for caramel popcorn ;D (Grega’s recipe did not turn out so well and he is now fired ;) as the cruise chef :D)… Do you have any brown sugar?
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Caramel-Popcorn/Detail.aspx
DHM
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I know cricket... and did you see my post above for the updated news, brought you by the Boston Globe and Mitt Romney? :) As for the carmel corn, I stay clear of it.... pulls out my teeth fillings! Like to keep me pearly whites all pearly white! ;D
Right oh. Popcorn with butter and nutritional yeast flakes it IS then.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast
Has anyone tried vegemite or marmite on popcorn?
Right then blokes- when do the cricket lessons begin?
Tally ho. Ta ta for now darling… must head to the shops as me larder is also empty of buttah.
DHM
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Please, DH Mayzie ..... before ya make the firing official, please let me try one more recipe regarding the subject you just introduced .... caramel crickets .... spider crickets with those long legs. If you can catch 'em before the cats do.
And, unlike those froggies .... ya just drop 'em in that boiling brew (haha!).
Better than caramel popcorn anyday!
Vegemite on popcorn? Why not ask Larry or Shelley down under.
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I have my bags packed and I'm ready for my ride to Antigua. The only sport I will be participating in is weightlifting - I think 12oz of something tall and cold will do nicely.
And remind me not to eat anything you guys cook. No nutritional yeast flaked-vegemited-carmel cricket popcorn for me, thank you. I'll be fine with a nice plate of conch fritters and a mango.
Lori
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And remind me not to eat anything you guys cook. No nutritional yeast flaked-vegemited-carmel cricket popcorn for me, thank you. I'll be fine with a nice plate of conch fritters and a mango.
Lori
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D
OH my sides are killing me
:D :D :D :D :D :D
DHM
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Every time I check out this thread it's taken another turn - and a bad turn at that.
Whatever happened to the topic at hand?
I thought we were here to discuss Health Care Reform.
If this wasn't in the Community, I'd have to insist that Phyl start cracking her whip!!! >:(
;)
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oh Jan...your just upset no one is getting in trouble for this OBVIOUS "derailing"!!
K ;D
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Darn straight.
Lori and I always get called on "acting out" and "hijacking" - I just want to share that "love" with others :D
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Still on topic, Jannie.
We're moving to Antigua due to the health care bill, remember? And then something about crickets in the popcorn and frogs in hot water...sheesh, you just can't pay attention, can you?
Lori
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Every time I check out this thread it's taken another turn - and a bad turn at that.
Whatever happened to the topic at hand?
I thought we were here to discuss Health Care Reform.
If this wasn't in the Community, I'd have to insist that Phyl start cracking her whip!!! >:(\;)
Jan ~
The new health care 'reform' law is a very serious issue that will definitely have an impact on AN patients so I've addressed it from that perspective, albeit with my slant that finds it to be financially unsustainable, unconstitutional and an expansion of government power over private citizens that most Americans will soon find to be onerous and hardly the 'deal' they thought they were getting with the passage of this law. Any U.S. law that states a citizen must purchase health care insurance that meets 'government standards' or face a $695. fine (this goes into effect in 2014) is a law that should give those who cherish their freedom, something to think about.
That having been said (nearly interminably, on my part, for which I apologize) I think Phyl and others are seeking to 'lighten things up' with some banter that is 180° from the deadly serious tone that necessarily permeates most posts relating to this sea-change in American's relationship to their government. I'm good with that because, as I stated in an earlier post, I'm not interested in debating the merits and/or drawbacks of the new law in the public forum but I've tried to state the realities and why I believe they're going to have a negative impact on us all, in some way, be it with a reduced level of health care i.e. long wait times for appointments and less time doctors can spend with you, being refused specific procedures or medications you once received, higher taxes and the inevitable long-range impact of ballooning federal deficits that will eventually cause hyper-inflation and a diminished standard of living for those of us who have contributed to society for most of our lives and never expected to have our government become the arbiter of our medical care. Some of us think this is wrong. Un-American, if you will. 'American exceptionalism' is based on the fact that this nation was born of a people who rejected a corrupt monarchy and struck out on their own. America's history does not include kings, emperors or dictators decreeing what is law and how Americans will be forced to obey the decree. Over 50% of the American public was against this new law and the Washington politicians that pushed it had to bribe, coerce and beg members of their own party to vote for it. In some cases, Representatives that did so ignored the will of their constituents. That is not a representative democracy. Many Americans realize this and, details of the new law aside, are irate. Add to that, the politicians attempted demonization of people who publicly protested against the bill as the same politicians try to play the victim by claiming they've been 'threatened' by those against the new health care 'reform' law and you have a very corrosive political atmosphere. No one likes it and I can understand why some posters would rather change the subject, as it were. Because this is an 'open' forum, that can happen. I doubt Phyl will scold anyone for changing the subject from one that is decidedly serious and intense to one that is, shall we say 'lighter'. Frankly, I don't mind too much. However, I assume those who still wish to add a comment that pertains to the thread title will, if they chose. I keep hoping to end my active participation in the thread but new posts seem to make that problematic for me. However, I fear that readers will grow weary of my pontificating so I'll try to restrain my instincts and let the thread play out in whatever way that it will. If that means a lot of lighthearted posts about food and foreign travel, so be it. Still, I trust that the thread has enlightened a few folks and not caused any real friction, because, as serious as this issue is, no one visits the ANA forums to be upset and all of us want to support other AN patients - not argue with them. In that light, I thank those who've posted - civilly, I'm happy to note - and I hope that all future posts on this thread will maintain that commendable level of decorum as we move forward to whatever the future holds for us in this Brave New World of 'universal' health care in America.
Jim
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Jim,
I certainly don't tire of your "pontification". Every time I read one of your posts I learn something new and your views on this subject reflect mine. So thank you once again.
Brenda
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Uhh, could someone explain what vegemite is. I take that it is healthy? Never heard of it, and I get around.
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FYI, here's the text of the bill as it was enacted into law by president Obama: http://www.examiner.com/x-12837-US-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d22-Health-care-reform-passes-whats-in-the-bill-read-HR-4872 (http://www.examiner.com/x-12837-US-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m3d22-Health-care-reform-passes-whats-in-the-bill-read-HR-4872). Btw, he signed the "fixes" bill into law today.. *sigh*
The best I can tell, both the "Health Care" bill and the "fixes" bill are here to view.. Be careful, because their each over 2000 pages (2,310 and 2,409 respectively)..
I've yet to find a laymen terms version of each.. Given that the "fixes" bill is designed to take the first bill and "remove this" and "insert this in it's place", you'd have to read both simultaneously to be able to read the whole thing...
Incidentally, I would be SHOCKED if ANYONE in Congress (or the President) actually read both bills to see what's in them cover to cover.
Happy reading!
Oh, and Jim, AMEN brother.. I've right there with you 100%..
Brian
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Uhh, could someone explain what vegemite is. I take that it is healthy? Never heard of it, and I get around.
Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite)
All you ever wanted to know about vegemite and then some.
Regards,
Brian
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Thanks for the text of the bill, Pooter.
Next time I'm REALLY, REALLY bored I may attempt to read it.
Then again, I would probably find it too depressing :'(
I'm with you - and Jim.
Jan
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Hey, as far as I've heard about Massachusetts aren't they 'in the red' in as much as they have had to borrow substantial amounts of $$'s from the Government to prop up their version of 'health care'? If their version is being touted as successful I guess this will be telling of our future and the failure of this 'backroom deal'. Which by the way, WE THE PEOPLE will have to suffer the consequences of a nation that is already bankrupt--a total collapse maybe?
As for the rest of you moving I've been thinking about Texas with their 'tough-as-nails' Sheriff Joe Arpaio, New Zealand, or Australia who isn't afraid to let people know what's acceptable and what's not by inviting those that don't want to conform can leave. Okay, I'm going to make a new sign to use at my next Tea Party Rally this weekend that my dog, Blu and I have been attending. Keeping up the good fight.
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Hey ANer's,
Didn't mean to derail the true discussion here with my plans to move to Antigua, but on a serious note I am terrified of this bill.
I was speaking with my husband and he mentioned that this "law" (ick) still has a chance to be decomissioned...with a change in party at the next election the funding for the program can be stopped and for lack of a better phrase put on the back burner...not sure long term, but hopefully we elect someone opposed to the change.
My 2 cents....
Liz
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some more two cents .... perhaps the bill would look a bit better in a layer of vegemite ::)
"Ten inconvenient truths about Obamacare"
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Ten-inconvenient-questions-about-Obamacare-88853462.html
I know, these are rather simple explanations to very complex and ridiculously confusing issues contained therein, but it might make you want to search for, and read more on these topics.
Thanks to all for this interesting discussion.
Greg
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As for the rest of you moving I've been thinking about Texas with their 'tough-as-nails' Sheriff Joe Arpaio, New Zealand, or Australia who isn't afraid to let people know what's acceptable and what's not by inviting those that don't want to conform can leave.
If memory serves, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is from Arizona (Maricopa County, to be exact), not Texas. I'm in Texas, and we'd love to have you over here!
Carry on..
Regards,
Brian
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Yes, Sheriff Joe is in Arizona. I wonder if we can get him to run for President? I'd vote for him!
Liz, glad you mentioned your plan to escape to Antigua - I'd be mad if you went without me! >:(
Lori
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Be careful, because their each over 2000 pages (2,310 and 2,409 respectively)..
:o
Not just an elephant but a HUGE herd... :o It will take many many mice to examine that one...
Whoa I am completely overwhelmed... having me realizing the more I learn I realize the less I know... this is sooh incredibly daunting. :-[ Now I understand why "layman's terms" are so hard to find. :-\
I am sorry I opened such a HUGE can of worms *...
DHM
* idiom defined
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/opening+a+can+of+worms.html
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I am sorry I opened such a HUGE can of worms *
DHM ~
No apology necessary. This new health care law is a huge change in our relationship with our government (and our doctors) and will affect every American, including AN patients. It was worth discussing so I'm glad you brought it up. Now, 11 pages and over 150 posts later, I trust it's been thoroughly vetted and we can draw our own conclusions (and make whatever travel plans we deem necessary). :)
Jim
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I absolutely LOVE Sheriff Joe.
Have seen numerous emails about him and his actions. I think more law-enforcement officials and politicans should follow his lead.
America should get back to being America.
Jan
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America should get back to being America.
But Jan, America wouldn't really be America if we weren't arguing about something. ;D
America has been at it all of my life, anyway, and long before that as well, judging by the history books. There is no surer sign of a free society.
Steve
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Pooter, thanks for the correction--I'm embarrassed but you let me down easy!
Steve, yes we've had 'others' in our history of presidents whose terms have done more harm than good, but this one, I'm afraid, has taken the cake--and much more than that too! Thinking we came out unscathed because of past history and problems is not true. What was created long ago is now biting us in the a.. in a serious way. What has come to pass with this obamination is nothing short of disgraceful.
We as AN patients are considered 'high maintenance' and 'risky' with this new bill and our once-a-year MRI's, doctor visits are big ticket items. Now, add that cost to (someone like me) a 2nd surgery and facing another due to dehiscence of temporal bone, the fact that I'm a woman (mammograms w/ultrasound) and in the high-risk category for breast cancer, the usual $$ spent at doctor's offices for 'wellness exams', audiology exams approx. 2 a year (I'm losing hearing in only ear), and let's throw in the one time visit to PCP. I'm one of those expensive candidates, aging, already (according to the bill) over the gov. allowance every year that won't benefit, not to mention the doctor I need to do these risky surgeries is in another location. Will this new bill allow me to continue seeing him? They say yes, but his history is 'he' speaks with a forked tongue. I have serious concerns about that. I will not sit back anymore thinking "It will fine, just give it time." because nothing has been honest about 'his' term, why think all of a sudden this will change? Too risky (our freedom) of a bet for me to take.
.......walking away from podium (I didn't even need teleprompters!) to make sign for Tea Party gathering
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With AN history , lupus , genetic issues concerning bones and joints , I am not getting any younger and the list goes on I worry ... and I was already having issues with coverage and getting things paid before Obama was elected ... so can't blame stuff I fight on the health care bill ... just worried that as the letter in pay stub envelope that informs me that my pre-existing status may go on until 2014 is going to be proved correct and that July things won't get better for me ... bought privately the same policy would pick up after a year ... makes no sense to me ... I see it as insurance company using the bill as an excuse to continue to not cover me til they figure exactly what they can get away with ... our go between with BCBS is doing some checking to see if them keep me and others in pre-existing status til them is legal ...
as for sheriffs ... I love our former sheriff ... he stripped TV and computers from jail cells , only 2 meals a day if you lay around doing nothing (breakfast and Super) ...turn heat down from 72 to 65 and passed out blankets ...in summer kept at 76 instead of the old 68 ... GED classes are still available , as are some other education opportunities if you want to take them ,...but work is done the old fashion ways ...books , paper and pencil... there is a library of paper backs to read from... 3 meals a day if you go out on road crew cleaning road sides (non violent , short term inmates) or work the garden (they grow their own fresh produce) ...everyone gets food grown from the garden but if you work it you get an extra veggie portion and lunch and super ...
2 sets of clothe ... you wear a jumpsuit 2 days ,swap and the women that work in laundry wash and return clean stuff next day and cycle continues
used to be a nice place to stay , AC in summer , Heat in winter , drink and candy machines , 24 hour phone , TV with cable and computers ...3 meals a day whether you earned it or not ....our jail isn't as full as it once was ... repeat visitors don't like the way he changed things ...he was elected as a state representative a couple years ago and new sheriff kept his plan in place ...saves county money and scares some straight when they learn that getting on a better path and fixing their life is better than staying in our jail
lets hear it for tough sheriffs
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I guess we will all be in a Watch and Wait mode on the new health care.
Sue in Vancouver, USA
And I didn't have to write on my hand... ;)
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Soundy,
According to Obama in his Maine speech today, being able to get coverage "this year" even with a pre-existing condition.. Obviously, I've heard different stories so I don't know which is true..
Brian
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According to Obama in his Maine speech today, being able to get coverage "this year" even with a pre-existing condition..
Wow, Pooter you actually watched or read about this speech?
Every time the man comes on TV I change the channel and I also read very little of what he has to say.
Can't wait until his term is up.
Jan (just voicing my opinion) :)
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If every time he comes on TV you change the channel and read very little of what he has to say, then how do you know for sure that you don't like him and can't wait until his term is up? (Please don't take this as me flamming you; this statement just struck me as funny) ;)
Look, I'm not a supporter of any political party or ideology; I'm definitly in the middle. Having said that, I have, nor does anyone else have any idea what this bill will do in the long run. I've read some pretty convincing evididence that it will not really fix the problems it says it will. I think there is some pretty compelling evidence that our country can not afford (financially) a bill like this.
However, if this bill has the ability to help those who can't afford health care and they can now get treatments that they couldn't without the bill, and the cost (for me) is that my taxes go up, I would be for it. My personal financial desires pale in insignifcance compared to someone who is sick and can't afford to get treatment.
I don't think anyone could tackle a subject like this and "hit it out of the park" on the first go around. Like others have said, hopefully this will be just a first step in finding the solutions we need. And if that means taking a step backwards to take two or three steps forwards, well.....I'm for that too.
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Jan.
I'm with you - I change the channel when he comes on too. However, I have done so to past presidents as well, so I'm truly a bipartisan channel changer. I don't need to listen to all the fluff they put in their speeches that they don't actually write themselves anyway - just send me a memo with the main points, thank you. And watching Pelosi, with that ever-present grin on her face makes me crazy! I'm pretty sure she'd be smiling as she told you she just ran over your puppy.
Besides, I find our current leader sounds a bit condescending in his addresses to the nation and I feel those of us that pay his bills deserve to be treated with more respect, even if we don't agree with him. I also go along with Dr. Phil's theory on how to tell if some people are lying - if their lips are moving, they're probably lying. :D
Lori
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If every time he comes on TV you change the channel and read very little of what he has to say, then how do you know for sure that you don't like him and can't wait until his term is up?
I don't live in a cave - just a house with a very costly mortgage that won't sell due to our wonderful economy. Basically it's worth less than the mortgage I currently hold and I'm not alone in this.
I watch the news, have internet access, talk to others, etc. and know what's going on in the world. If Charlie Gibson or Katie Couric want to tell me the news, great. If Obama comes on, I change the channel.
Just to clarify, I had an open mind prior to the election. I watched the debates, etc., and decided Mr. Obama wasn't the candidate for me. I figured he'd be elected, but that didn't mean I was happy with it. I don't like his policies, I don't like his politics, and I don't feel he's really qualified for the job. On the other hand, he didn't run against a real stellar candidate either.
Like Lori, I'm a bipartisan channel changer. And again, like Lori, Nancy Lugosi makes me crazy!
While I'm all for those who are sick having insurance, I don't feel it should be up to me to fund their coverage. Especially when we start talking about people who aren't even in our country legally. I'm also opposed to my government telling me that I MUST have coverage. Last I knew, America was a free country and we had choices. This smells too much of dictatorship to me.
I also feel that I pay my fair share of taxes - and then some - based on my income and I'm not funding my "personal financial desires". I'm simply trying to survive and support myself and my children. I work for everything I have - and I have since I was out of college - no one's giving me a free ride. Why should I fund the free ride of others?
Not flamming either, just my thoughts.
Rein me in, Pooter - I'm starting to get a little "testy" here ;D
Jan
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Jayson, couldn't help but notice your post .... right in the middle of two thirds of the "JKL" trio. Wow, that's a special place in my book! ;)
Anyway, some might consider what you suggest in your 2nd paragraph to be a "re-distribution of wealth" .... taking more and more of your hard-earned money outta your pocket and using it to make sure all who are deserving get proper medical care. This might not be such a bad idea if Congress hadn't passed this bill, with all it unknowns, the way it did.
I agree with you in your 1st paragraph: No one has "...any idea what this bill will do in the long run." and "...it will not really fix the problems it says it will." and "...our country can not afford (financially) a bill like this."
And re your 3rd paragraph, I agree again: no one could "...hit it out of the park on the first go around." But this bill was shoved down your and my throats on the first go round by the Barry, Harry and Nanny show, without considering proposals from those opposed to the bill's content and consequences. It had to be passed right away, by whatever means necessary. Nanny Pelozzi said, "We have to pass this bill, so we can find out what's in it."
That's the height of ABSURDITY !!!!!! (If you look in your Funk and Wagnalls for that word ..... guess who's pictured there ..... :P )
That's what the majority of Americans object to as the popularity of that trio (BHN .... not JKL) slips everso downward.
But, please .... keep ;D -ing!
Greg
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Not flamming either, just my thoughts.
well, we all know how I feel about flames around here..........
Rein me in, Pooter - I'm starting to get a little "testy" here ;D
Ask me... don't be getting all "testy" on me here! :) ;) :-*
Let's all place nice in the sandbox, kiddies.....
Phyl
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Jan ......... just envision yourself sitting back on a nice beach somewhere, wearing a nice panama hat 8) (or even one of Steve's hats on a cooler beach? ::) )..... holding a tall cool lemonade ..... and thinking .... NO ONE is gonna bother me today! 8)
I once heard that advice in order to deal with one's "ex" ...... something to do with positive relaxation daydreaming.
Keep ;D -ing!
Greg
(Phyl .... are you all-hearing .... all-seeing .... and all-knowing? .... I thought so!)
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(Phyl .... are you all-hearing .... all-seeing .... and all-knowing? .... I thought so!)
;) More than ya know, m'dear! Just call me the ol....er...young, wise one! ;D Happy Easter to you! Phyl
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Rein me in, Pooter - I'm starting to get a little "testy" here ;D
Jan
I think you're doing just fine. I think it's high time that we all get a little testy with Washington so they know we mean business. I'm tired of the taxes going up and up and up...I'm tired of the intrusion going up and up and up. What makes us (partially) the best country in the world (my opinion) is that we've always enjoyed a semi-limited Federal government. They were there for the most part to do certain things we needed to do as a country (wars, intelligence [some might argue this point.. ;)], military, border security, etc..) but for the most part they left the people alone to live their lives and make (or break) their own way in life. It seems more than ever we have an over-reaching Federal government that is bent on controlling every aspect of our lives while at the same time taking the money of those that have it and giving it (without regard to merit) to those that don't. Those that don't have absolutely no incentive to work hard and EARN their way because they know the Federal government will provide them with everything they want.. The healthcare law (to bring it back to topic at hand) is just another intrusion by the Federal government to tell us all what we MUST do, how we MUST do it, when we MUST do it, with whom we MUST do it, and oh by the way their going to take money from anything breathing so they can give it to those that aren't willing to earn it themselves. Like others, I'm all for helping someone with a hand up for a short time.. however, I'm flatly against working hard to get everything that I have (which isn't much) only to have it taken away by the Federal government and give it to someone who habitually takes and never gives.
So, by all means, get testy. Get mad.. Above all else, be polite and vote all the varmints out any chance you get.
*parachutes off his soapbox in the bully pullpit*
Regards,
Brian
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Jan, no need to get testy, my first sentence was meant to be taken more tongue and cheek. (I should have added a few more winky faces) ;) ;) ;)
I hear what you are saying. Governing against the will of the people is never a good thing. I have many, many concerns that this bill won't provide what it says it will provide. I'm also hopeful many people will be able to get treatments that they may have not been able to receive in the past. Only time will tell.
I agree that America is a free country and we have choices, but lets face it, the government tells us all the time what we can and can't do. Trust me on this; I'm a regulator for the US Gov't. :'(
Greg,
The heart of what I was getting at in my last post was this: I have no idea if I'm for or against this bill. I've heard well articulated arguments for and against it. What I'm most concerned about with all of the rhetoric is more philosophical. The arguments against this bill seem to fall into the catergory of how this will effect me and mine. By this I mean there is an attitude of "I'd love to help those in need as long as it does not effect me in any way." I'm not speaking about anyone specifically, its just the overall attitude I'm talking about. I know we all pay taxes and I think we pay far too much in taxes for ridiculous projects, but now we are talking about human beings and I don't think the decisions should rest solely in the area of finance. Is this bill the answer? Maybe, maybe not but a wise man once said,"love you neighbor as yourself". Try to imagine a country/world that embraced that mentality. In a small way, I see bills like this as a step in that direction. I know, I know its not the government's job to legislate morality and we shouldn't force people to do anything. Like I said...its philosophical.
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Jayson,
Food for thought.. Instead of paying for this bill by taxing us more and adding to the current debt load, why not get some of the money from these "rediculous projects" and put it towards healthcare for the truly needy?
Along the same vein, what in the sam hill does taking over the student loan program have to do with healthcare? There are so many provisions in this bill that have NOTHING to do with the underlying stated goals of the law; to reduce the cost of medical care, to get insurance/help to those that can't afford it, and to make the system "better"? I just don't get it.. I fail to realize how this new law will do those things without breaking the back of every able-bodies working individual.
Regards,
Brian
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Brian aka Pooter(love that name btw)
I've really enjoyed your perspective on the health care issue. I love it when people are able to deliver passionate, articulate reasons for their beliefs. Thanks.
Like I've said before, I don't know what the new bill will do for/to us. I don't think anyone does. So, if your "food for thought" is the best solution, then I'm all for it. However, I'm less concerned with the mechanics of the bill as I am with the mentality of America. I do not believe that majority of poor Americans are taking advantage of the system and are lazy. Quite the opposite really. I also don't think the mentality of "pick yourself up by your own bootstaps" works for everyone. We need to address poverty not just with charity, but the issues that keeps generations of people in it. I just think the solutions to the majority of our problems could be solved if we considered others as we do ourselves.
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Thanks Jayson, specially for that good thought in your last sentence. Please send it to every person in Congress who voted for the bill, asking why they didn't consider other decent and resasonable solutions to this country's health care "problem" from those who voted against it .... and why they didn't listen to constituents who, in numbers so great we'll never realize, voiced their opinions that they didn't want the bill.
I realize you'll not get many to answer, or you might get generic response letters, but it's worth a try.
BTW .... glad you're "doing just fine " since your AN removal about a year ago!
Greg
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Jayson,
A bill this massive and radical change to the current healthcare system should be understood BEFORE it's passed. Pelosi had it backwards when she said that we had to pass it to find out what was in it.
I'm with you... compassionate solutions to problems without breaking the back of everything decent about this country. I don't think it's the job of the Federal government to provide that assistance; rather at the state level. Their "one size fits all" mentality to solving social issues is astounding to me. I certainly didn't mean to imply that all or even a majority of people who need assistance are abusing it... But, the number of people that ARE abusing it are causing the rest of us to have to pay more.. Our federal money being spent on the "war on poverty" has increased something like 400% since it started and we're no better off than before; still at the same percentage of people that are "poor".. So, if they're not going to actually solve the problem or make a significant dent in it, give that money back to the workers and businesses that can actually help by spending money on goods and services or hiring more people to their business..
I agree we need to address poverty with not only charity but the problems that cause poverty and keeps people in it.. But, making the people that have a little bit of money poor so that you can give it to fight "poverty" doesn't seem to work in my book.
Most people that I know will gladly give money to churches, associations, etc... in order to help give assistance to the poor. I don't think it's the Federal government's place to do that for me or anyone else. They should just get out of the way, let us keep more of our money so that we CAN help those that need it.
Before too long, if this mentality in Washington keeps going the way that it is, many of us will be "the poor" asking for assistance... Maybe that's the goal of some in Washington...
Regards,
Brian
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Hi, Jayson ~
I hope you're comfortable because this might take awhile. I also hope those interested have a good supply of popcorn handy. ;)
Assuming you've followed this lengthy thread, you must be well aware that I've attempted to present some facts as well as my opinion regarding the 'ObamaCare' bill (now law) that is of great interest to AN patients (for obvious reasons) and should be of interest to all Americans because, unlike some huge, expensive government programs of the past intended to 'correct' some real or perceived flaw in our society, this one includes a provision that every American citizen is required to purchase health insurance that meets a 'government standard' and employers are required, by law, to offer health care insurance to their employees. Failure to meet these requirements is punishable by hefty fines. Some Americans, even if they have every intention of purchasing health insurance, balk at the federal government demanding they do so and being subject to fines imposed by that government. The use of the dreaded IRS to enforce the requirement rankles some of us who believe that government should work for it's citizens and not the other way around.
Then there is the enormous cost of implementing this law. Not only will we pay a lot more in taxes to do what this program now demands but even those won't be enough to pay the billions and billions this program will cost. While you may be quite willing to have even more of your income taken by the government, some of us are not as sanguine about that, considering the heavy burden we now bear with federal, state and local taxes. This includes income tax, Social Security tax, state income taxes (for some, including me), local property taxes (on both home and vehicles, in my state), as well as state and local sales taxes. Few working people consider themselves under-taxed. When this kind of law is proposed, often the politicians will claim that they'll 'tax the rich' to pay for it or in the case of ObamaCare, 'root out waste and fraud' in Medicare. I've been around long enough to know from experience that there are never enough 'rich' to significantly cover the cost and that every major government program in the past i. e. Social Security, Medicare, has cost 10 to 20 times the original estimate. Our federal deficit is now almost 13 Trillion dollars! This law will add many more trillions to that debt. As I'm sure you realize, this is dangerous to the U.S. economy and not something we can ignore because that stratospheric level of federal debt will eventually have serious financial ramifications for every American, not just 'the rich', and it's right around the corner, not decades away.
In my opinion, the corrupt manner in which this law was passed is a stain on our country's history and the politicians that were complicit in passing it. Bribes and special 'deals' for specific states, closed-door, one-party meetings and politicians demonizing ordinary citizens who opposed this bill at public rallies are not the way a democratic government does the people's business. Millions of Americans feel they have lost control of their government and that no one in Washington cares what the people want. This perception (accurate, in my opinion) is, first, a bit frightening, then the concern turns to anger and resentment. I believe this resentment will be seen at the polls this November 2nd and I suspect that even some 'good' politicians will be 'retired' due to the public outrage over the way this bill was passed into law and the unconstitutional provision it includes (mandatory health insurance coverage). Of course, I could be wrong - but I doubt it.
Frankly, what interested me most about your prior comments was your moral view of the rationale for this government-run program. Let me hasten to add that I think your view as it applies to the needy is commendable and I won't dispute it - but I will make some comments on that issue. I know something about Christian charity and the teachings of Jesus.
I'm a lifelong Christian and currently a Deacon in my (Protestant, evangelical) church. I'm in charge of our benevolence mission. I oversee thousands of dollars given (we don't lend, we give) to those in need, both inside and outside of our congregation. We have a very generous congregation and a few wealthy members that, if asked - and I have - will immediately write a personal check for thousands of dollars to a needy individual that they may have never met but that needs help. This is Christian charity and follows Jesus' teaching on giving and caring for our fellow man. I agree that the world would be a better place if we all followed that teaching. That is why churches have missions and 'outreach' programs. However, the reality is that society does not really follow that teaching and while most people have good intentions, Americans, as a whole, are not voluntarily going to pay for other people's medical care. I understand this because most of us are middle class and with taxes and prices being as high as they are, we simply can't afford it. Here is where we may part company on this issue.
Although anyone can receive medical care without having insurance at any ER (and many folks do, every day) I do not subscribe to the view that , generally speaking, health care is some kind of 'right' and because there are poor people and/or those without health insurance in America, often by their own choice, our government has the constitutional, legal authority to impose on it's citizens a Draconian health care program that will raise our high taxes even higher and very likely diminish the quality of our superb health care system as well as have many other unintended consequences, as these gigantic government programs always do. This is, in a roundabout way, forced charity that makes some folks and many politicians feel good but does great harm in many ways, such as causing economic hardship when the U.S. economy craters due to our unsustainable national debt and the doctors that will retire early, rejecting government bureaucrats deciding their incomes and dictating their practice of medicine, thus causing a greater strain on a system already being strained by the addition of millions of new patients. I could go on but I trust you get the point.
In the final analysis, I believe your philosophy is sound but the government's role in our democratic republic has been badly misunderstood by many. Jesus stated (Mark 14: 7) that "the poor will always be with you' as a way of reminding us what is truly important. Jesus was very concerned with the poor and helped many but I cannot see a relationship between personal charity and a massive government program that takes, by law and with serious penalties for disobeying that law, money from one group of citizens to pay for other citizens needs. We've done this for almost 50 years with welfare programs - and the poverty rate remains static. Our taxes pay for unemployment benefits, which I - and most Americans - support. Our taxes pay for federal and state Medicaid programs that help the indigent with their medical bills. People my age receive Medicare, which will soon be cut and restricted to help pay for the costs of ObamaCare (but won't come close to covering them). My point is that our federal government does many things for the 'needy' using other people's (tax) money but cannot take the place of personal charity and caring people. History proves that. While we all have good intentions, using the government to perform tasks best left to the private sector is financially unsustainable and, if history is any guide, a potential failure that will render unintended negative consequences such as decreased medical innovation, long waits for medical procedures and a general diminishing of health care for all. I don't believe that some folks feeling better about 'helping the poor' (because they pay taxes) is worth that and I seriously doubt that Jesus would approve of 'Caesar' (Matthew 21: 21) doing what we, as individuals, should be doing. The reality remains that government rules by force, not moral law.
Jim
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May I distract you all, for a moment, with this famous artist’s illustration?
http://www.normanrockwellvt.com/Plates/GoldenRulePlate.jpg
Here is some information about his work
http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2009/04/28/art-literature/real-picture-norman-rockwells-studio.html
He is famous for his painting of the four freedoms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms_(Norman_Rockwell)
This painting about one freedom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Worship_(painting)
Pick your own website to see the painting in more detail.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&resnum=0&q=freedom%20of%20worship%20rockwell&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
Please know that NO one religion is depicted here in the painting by Rockwell- as dominant … and that ALL are welcome here on the forum.
Here is also a link to the golden rule to which you can choose your own website to view in more detail.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=golden%20rule%20norman%20rockwell&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
A picture is worth a thousand words- isn’t it?
Peace :)
DHM
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well, baseball season is commencing and can't wait to see how the Boston Red Sox do this year, especially against the "Evil Empire" :)
*sits back with fresh made bowl of fat-free popcorn*
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well, baseball season is commencing and can't wait to see how the Boston Red Sox do this year, especially against the "Evil Empire" :)
*sits back with fresh made bowl of fat-free popcorn*
Yay...Go socks! I'll be glued to the TV tomorrow night with you!!!! Probably with some sort of Easter candy ;D
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DHM,
Thanks for those links; I really enjoyed that. However, note in my posts that I never mentioned or promoted any one religion over the other.
Jim, thank you for your perspectives on the health care bill. I think you and I are of like mind on many of the governmental issues at hand in this post. Like I've said, I don't know if I can truly be in favor of the bill as it stands. I am, however, sympathetic to the bill, and, yes, its because of faith issues.
I agree that Jesus spoke often about the poor and how we should treat them. I believe you and I are in agreement on this issue. However, have a look at the rules God set up for the year of Jubilee in Lev. 25: 8-25. for all practical purposes, during this time, God was the "federal gov't" for the people of Israel. Its interesting, for a Christian at least, to see the stark contrast of that system compared to our current system.
Now, am I suggesting that we adopt a system like Jubilee today? No, because I don't think that would be possible for many reasons. However, its these passages, combined with what Jesus said about the poor that makes me sympathetic towards this bill. Like I've said before, my mind is not made up on the bill/law per se, but I like the mentality behind it.
Thanks everyone for this discussion. I've very much enjoyed reading all of the perspectives of my AN friends on this forum. I hope everyone is doing well with their AN issues and I look forward to leaning on you all in the future!!!
Blessings
Jayson
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DHM -
Maybe you need to post a link regarding treatment for carpal tunnel syndrome - I'm pretty sure Jim must have it after all that typing! ;) Just teasing, Jim!
And Phyl, will your Red Sox be playing in kayaks? Or maybe with masks/snorkels? I hear the flooding is pretty bad up that way!
Lori
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This is one of the wildest threads I've followed in a long time.
Do you realize we've gone from healthcare reform to food to musicians to Dr. Seuss to religion to carpal tunnel to baseball players in kayaks?
And I know I've missed at least 3 or 4 topics in this list.
Jan
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This is one of the wildest threads I've followed in a long time.
Do you realize we've gone from healthcare reform to food to musicians to Dr. Seuss to religion to carpal tunnel to baseball players in kayaks?
And I know I've missed at least 3 or 4 topics in this list.
Jan
Children literature... Art History? ;) :D ;D
DHM
P.S. Speaking of "Kayaks"- I miss you Joef! :-* (He must be ice fishing, up Northland, somewhere ;) )
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I also missed Pandora's box and boiling frogs.
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I also missed Pandora's box and boiling frogs.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Not just my sides are killing me ...
Jan and Lori I just LOVE you two :-* ... you are the Laurel and Hardy comic relief we all sooh need.
Psst....For those not from the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurel_and_Hardy
Huggles.
DHM :)
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P.S. Speaking of "Kayaks"- I miss you Joef! :-* (He must be ice fishing, up Northland, somewhere ;) )
Did someone say kayaks ? ;D
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Jeff you are back! Yeah!!! :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
I have sooh missed you. :)
I have a question:
?
“Does popcorn make good fish bait? I have tried sandwiches from my lunch box when I ran out of worms from the can (this is factually true I did this when fishing for arctic char in Cambridge Bay) but never popcorn… does it work?â€
DHM :)
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I've never tried popcorn (it dont think it would work well ) .. but un-popped corn itself works well !
Joef ;)
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The first time I met Steve (who is a bit of a cherished hero to me :-* ) was right here in this very ANA forum. This was my connection to the ANA… and from there I finally got a membership, a bunch or info packets in the mail (plus a “deaf left†pin ;)) and eventually mustered up the courage to go to a physical ANA meeting.
I was wobbly, had an eye weight, my face was completely paralyzed and I was still in trauma and scared with much doubt about my recovery prognosis. I walked into this small conference room, at St. Vincent’s hospital in Oregon, and there was this man who looked me straight in the eyes with the most crystal blue warm welcoming eyes and a big kind beautiful smile. He made his own sign language to me- of holding up four fingers and lifting his eyebrows- in question. No words just body language.
He repeated by lip speaking to me silently, as to not interrupt the group discussion, if I was “4â€- (that was the name I used before I felt Daisy Head Mayzie, aka DHM, was more suiting). Again he simply raising his eyebrows (my one eyebrow was paralyzed so I could do this in return) and he showed four fingers he mouthed, “Are you four?†I nodded my head. It was a non-verbal language exchange I will not forget.
Instant ANA buddies were made. :)
Sometimes we all meet, in-person, either in support groups or in symposiums… or we just continue our dialogue here on the lively forum.
It is very important for all of us to remember that our conversations are being read by people all over the world (aka WWW) and that the readers (and/or listeners) come from ALL walks of life, race, creed, or color. Ours is currently THE most active acoustic neuroma discussion forum in the world.
What we must always do is support each other to get through our sometimes-difficult acoustic neuroma journey. (Although with Laurel and Hardy it can sometimes be so FUN and funny. Jan & Lori are well loved :-* )
The ANA put together an exceptional instructional DVD to which has been played at the beginning of many of the Oregon support group meetings. It gives the group a reminder as to WHY they are there but also informs newcomers what it is all about and answered many questions they have- before dialogue even begins.
Videos and DVD’s can be amazing tools for communication and education.
The health bill is VERY complex and the discussion among patients, doctors, hospitals and people alike IS important to have.
We, as acoustic neuroma patients, often deal with huge obstacles. Government bill or not -one too many AN patients are NOT getting coverage for their issues and ARE discriminated against. Some patients need Botox or plastic surgery and this is not merely cosmetic. Many need to find away to improve hearing loss be it Baha implant, hearing aid, etc. ( I am repeating myself... ok ok... you have heard my spiel before… nada nada nada…) We as a group need to also come together, putting any fundamentalist differences aside, and figure out how we can bring out awareness not just to assist those to have their tumors treated but also with the post-op complications that can happen. This could include having insurance companies understanding why Botox, Baha implants, physical therapy, etc all need to be covered. Although those of us on the forum seem to be middle aged know that there are also teenagers and many youth -affected with this tumor. We need to somehow come together and let people know about the post-op obstacles -being it insurance hassles for eye weights or funding physical therapy etc.
I just shared this video with folks on another AN Community thread about the new Stanford group that just started… and I thought it might be fitting to share with this group to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEdVfyt-mLw
Steve initially wanted this link in the March ANA newsletter but his text count was over the limit ??? for their newsletter format -so parts of his original well done article had to be cut. Steve wrote an article about the Oregon ANA group. His co-leadership is going to be a HUGE asset and I am SOOH glad he stepped up-to-the-plate to help lead our diverse group. We have a 91 year old (he is sweet and so humorous) who was teaching ballroom dancing to one couple in the hallway outside our hospital conference meeting room … and a new young kid who was raised on Russia who came here initially as a student. We are all SOOH different but what brings us together is our acoustic neuroma and we connect together, in a hospital conference room, enroute of our journeys- and share. (Sometimes we laugh, cry, hug, giggle … dance… or just chat.)
Anyway this link I wanted share from You-Tube that was filmed where our group actually meets. (Our support group knows this foyer, elevators and cafeteria well.) These are not actors- but REAL people. It was done with volunteer time of employees to promote awareness to breast cancer.
It is a very popular piece of music with teens today and other youth (and even me the middle aged fogey likes it too now- which pleases my teenager ;) )
I spoke about music, math, art and sign language being universal- as also is dance. You do not need to speak English to get the message here- in this video. I can see that great care was taken to represent the very diverse group of staff there and- ALL the various positions that make the place work. It is fun! :) I am so glad Steve shared this video link with me, a few months ago, and I hope you-all like it too. I know that we also have medical staff lurk and read our posts too.
Do you think we could put fundamentalist differences aside and all celebrate our diversity to put together something as fun, together, as what this hospital staff did to bring awareness to breast cancer -did? It would take some creative and articulate people… and I KNOW we have those here. WE as AN patients DO face obstacles and discrimination but is there a way that we can bring on change so Baha’s, eye weights, hearing aids, Botox, vestibular therapy, etc is covered on insurance- through awareness?
Hope you-all are dancing. (I bet you can even dance from a kayak!)
Anyway many of us have been talking to each other for many months (years) and I STILL love you all- like family. :-* Jayson, I hardly know yet- and I like you already.
DHM :)
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Pooter , I think is who commented to me way back when about pre-existing issues
my biggest issue at the moment is not so much the bill and it's treatment of pre-existing problems and how they will be addressed , but that BCBS /Tennessee has treated me as pre-existing every since we were switched to it from CIGNA ... they continue to do so and have informed us that terms of the bill say that they can continue to do so until 2014 ... hopefully it won't take that long for me to get stuff resolved but for now I skip things I maybe shouldn't because I have kids to feed and bills to pay ...
when MRIs went from costing me a $100 deductible to the last set costing a bit over $4000 I had to make choices ... I skipped last MRI that was scheduled ...unless something changes drastically I won't get one unless I feel different somehow ... the scan that showed drastic tumor growth that was done in April at my insistence because my hearing was different and had some facial numbness ... my surgeon didn't figure anything was going on but I did and he went on and ordered the MRI ...it was not due until October ... and had I waited I would probably not be here typing according to several doctors who looked at the scan and the position of tumor and size it had reached in a very short time (October 2006 -April 2007) ... at the rate it was growing he said I would have just woke up dead because I would stop breathing from AN pressing on brain stem ... I am hoping that if re-growth were to occur I will pick up on it as I did the change that ended my watch and wait status ...
I still think that somehow , medical billing / over billing needs the fixing and don't think this will do that ... being over charge because you have insurance to make up the difference that is left from uninsured people and illegals forces insurance companies to adopt policies that don't pay because they don't want to be ripped off so we are left with the balance
I have a sister who has epilepsy , has been stripped of her drivers license by the state and still doesn't qualify for disability because she left her last job voluntarily … she had waited tables and cooked in a café for several years after end of her marriage but during her marriage didn’t work … they don’t take into consideration that she left the job after spilling a pitcher of ice water on a customer when a seizure hit and thinking that it could just as well been a pot of hot coffee … and she figured cooking over a hot grill and falling on it wouldn’t be good either …
but even with employer going to bat for her she has been denied … she gets a little over $300 a month in food stamps and is living with a friend that lets her stay rent free for helping around the house … and her doctor sees her for $5 a visit … he has to charge something and since he owns his practice and is not a part of a group attached to any hospital as so many around these parts are he can do this … the drug store that is also private owned and operated supplies her medicine for free … they do this for several …so she is lucky …she was told that since she was married for over 20 years that even divorce she can draw off ex’s SS and get more than drawing off self …. But not until 2024 … she is hoping the bill will help her out and it may
We have a large Mexican population in the area ( a good many illegal ) that work in various places and are paid under table … some get caught and deported and others don’t … not enough is done to the employers that hire them and claim they don’t know them from Adam when push comes to shove …
It burns me up to sit in the doctors office and hear them go on about what they don’t have to the receptionist …jobs , money , insurance blah blah blah …and they are in designer clothes , dripping in jewelry and drove up in an Escalade or a Hummer (vehicle reference to two families that see regularly ) … and poor things only get WIC and food stamps … please see us and treat us and give us medicine and don’t make us pay
And it is not just Mexicans … we have American citizen families that have learned to milk the system and get more than they have ever put in … I know of some that work and get paid in cash , pay very little by way of tax on what they get and get food stamps ,free lunches , Tenn Care coverage for their kids and other money because they don’t make enough to live … when many make good money … but take the contractor that pays a man $18 an hour but pays him $10 an hour of it under the table … contractor doesn’t pay SS tax in on that , doesn’t cover him with insurance other than work mans comp …contractor also show a loss and gets tax breaks and credits to make up for slow business … the man pays no tax on over half of his income … yet he gets extra money to pay for food , his kids are fed for free at school , they have insurance and can see a doctor when they need to and not worry about what it costs , they can get assistance for heating during the winter … then there are those who struggle to make ends meet simply because they play by the rules and do things right …
I don’t call myself religious …more spiritual … not even gonna try to explain that … but have had people more religious than me , tell me not to worry … that those who cheat the system now will pay for it on judgment day and those who played by the rules will be rewarded … I believe this on a spiritual level but my human level wants them to pay now …here on earth …
I was gonna say more but have said plenty or too much …not sure …
Irritated in Tennessee …
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Soundy,
Did you at least look at the video (link above) and try dancing to it?
I even got my hubby and kids dancing to it -while doing the supper dishes.
I think if one dances to it once it can be a great stress releaser (and venting outlet too) ...
I am sure neighbors are peaking in our windows (with binoclulars no doubt ;) ) at us all dancing around the kitchen and living room with our rubber dish gloves on as we pretend these are pink . The neighbors are thinking,
"that crazy lady with the brain tumor- has her whole family going weird now!" ;) :D )
Come on Soundy - DANCE with us... :)
DHM :)
Pooter, do you and your kids dance?
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slow dial up doesn't allow me to dance ...well if I open something and let it down load over night I can dance the next morning ... or if I click now and pray no one calls and bumps me before it is through loading I could dance in an hour or so
phone has rang all morning ...logistics of one son coming and getting his sisters and taking them to church and hopefully remembering to bring them home later , have had to be worked out ...
I thought it was easy ...head east , stop at mom's , pick up girls , go to church , sing ,dance , party , eat , hunt eggs , return sisters home and bring his 2 brothers that he is suppose to pick up after leaving church ,get here , sing , dance party and eat again and then go back in the hollow and see if the easter bunny visited back there ... seemed simple to me but has taken 5 or 6 calls to figure it out ...
I should have bought frozen pizzas , went to church , left a little early to come home and bake pizzas in time for hoards of people to swarm me with mouths open like hungry baby birds ...
will have a nervous break down before day is done ... but my insurance has a mental health clause and will pay for a 7 day observation stay at our local hospital's psych ward ... maybe I should take advantage of that and get a vacation ;D...
back to the stove ...
I will check the video out later if no one calls and bumps it off... I should disconnect the Catch a Call box from my phone line then I could stay on the computer or leave it on uninterrupted and not have to talk to my nutty family ...
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Mayzie, do you own wikipedia? ???
Jan, don't forget caramel crickets :D, Denzel as Michelle ;D ..... and specially Lori as Nanny Ligosi ;)
Greg
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Wasn't there something about double stuff oreos too? Or am I just really hungry? ;) Or should I say, I WAS really hungry until Greg mentioned the caramel crickets! :P
DHM - I couldn't dance pre-AN and I don't dare try now. Guess I'll just have to join your neighbors in watching the crazy lady dance.
Lori
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Lori,
The story is you are supposed to dance like no one is watching and sing like no one is listening! Dance at the beach and sing along............
Brenda
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Oh goodness - I sing worse than I dance! :o Although I'm sure anyone within earshot would be doing all they could to NOT listen! :D
Oh, and DHM, I always though Jan and I were more like the Smothers Brothers. And mom always did like Jan best....
Lori
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I let the link open and watched it and it was nice ... but I still ain't gonna dance
I do sing with an oldies station ...alone and in the privacy of my truck ... what I lack in skill I make up for with enthusism ...I am a much better listener than singer
as for heath care system and insurance
when I was having nausea issues from dizzyness that led to gagging , that lead to head pain , that led to more gagging , that lead to additional head pain , that lead to hurling and eventually landed in the ER , I learned that my insurance wouldn't pay for promethazine when prescribed for nausea ... learned today that it will pay for it when used for allergy ...
they sent me a new list of their do's don'ts and reasons for being ... reason fpr non-payment was there were less addicitve ways to treat nausea ..I think that people are more likely to get addictied if used for allergy as allergic reactions are more likely going to be for longer term than nausea... so next time I am nauseated I will tell the doctor I am sneezing ...perfect logical sense
On with the show
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Mayzie, do you own wikipedia? ???
No, but she does have stock in it - LOTS of stock!
Laurel & Hardy ??? I don't even have a moustache! I think Nancy Ligosi (er, Lori) is right - the Smothers Brothers are more like it. And as long as mom likes me best, I'm good with that ;D
I'm not a dancer either. Just not something I ever got into - which is probably a good thing since I have no rhythm. But for the record, I can sing - usually Jimmy Buffett.
Denzel as Michelle ;D Forgot about that; have to agree, he'd be a stellar choice.
Jan
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Mayzie, do you own wikipedia? ???
No, but she does have stock in it - LOTS of stock!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Owning stock in WIKI would be like owning stock in the Acoustic Neuroma Association :D
:D ;D
It is FREE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
Ok ok so ANA is not totally free but it is non-profit.
Definitely ;) regret NOT buying stock in Google when those 1st came out.
The Smothers Sisters it is! (NO that sounds weird :-\ and does not ryhme!)
How about the Blister Sisters? Mister Sisters? Or we could make one up... Fister Sisters? Hister Sisters?
Help me out here Steve! Anyone? ;) ;D
DHM
GEE whiz- doesn't anyone on this forum like to dance? ::)
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There is a HysterSisters website for those of us who have had a hysterectomy or just having one. Very good info too. Having one was not a real big deal to me with being post menopausal but for those who aren't, is a big deal!
Acouster sisters isn't quite it either. I like the Smother sisters but a young person might wonder who iin the world is the Smother Brothers! Cheryl R
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You are moms, right? If so ..... Smothers Mothers ........ ::)
anonymous
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You are moms, right? If so ..... Smothers Mothers ........ ::)
:D I like that one it IS funny... but will THEY like it :-\
Smother's Mothers... catchy :D
DHM :D
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While Smothers Mothers is quite amusing (wonder who suggested that ??? ;) ) I think we're best described as the JKL Trio.
Of course that means that my partner in crime, Lori, and I have to bring Kaybo up (or is that down??) to our level of humor :D
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I like it too! As long as no one thinks we are the mother of the Smothers Brothers! I'm not that old! Jan might be... :D
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when I have an extra sec, I am going to write down all the words to the only Smothers Brothers song I know & the only reason why I have ever wanted a tattoo!!
K ;D
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If you are going to be dancing, as suggested by DHM, then I suggest taking a cue from Kaybo's web site name, and calling yourself the Twirly Girlies. 8)
Steve
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If there will be twirling involved - we're going to need a few large rolls of bubble wrap to wrap ourselves in as we will be falling - a lot! :o
Lori
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I'm sure glad Phyl OK'd "hijacks" on this particular community forum many posts ago. ;D
But, if ya think about it, everything written on this thread ..... perhaps the longest in the shortest time(?) .... does concern health care .... because in the words of some wise human long ago:
"Laughter is the best medicine!" ;D
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I'm sure glad Phyl OK'd "hijacks" on this particular community forum many posts ago. ;D
But, if ya think about it, everything written on this thread ..... perhaps the longest in the shortest time(?) .... does concern health care .... because in the words of some wise human long ago:
"Laughter is the best medicine!" ;D
Laughter in my world of insurance woes is often the only medicine available so I use it often ... it is either that or cry
I wise crack alot about things AN related and dealing with other health issues that are not funny ...protection mode I guess ... and it helps not let the bad over power the good in my life
I have found this thread informative , entertaining and grant permission for hilarity to continue ... not that I have the pwser to grant anything...but please , do continue
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I'm not going to touch most of this topic with a 10 foot pole, but will only say to DHM that I don't think as WTT-er's we should be giving advice about insurance matters anyway. Everyone's coverage, at this point, is different so there's no way you could possibly give them accurate advice on their own personal policy.
To date we are at page 14… (gee a hot and lively topic is this one ::)) ...of this health bill thread
This was post # 9 on page one (OK no longer “thread†:-\ … but spool ;D)
The ANA just sent out an excellent e-mail to ALL the Wiling To Talk (WTT) folks that reemphasized what Lori says here- quoted above. In truth we do NOT understand this health bill and Lori is very right that this should NOT be a topic when one calls for help. We are not qualified to answer on this matter (I know I am not :-[ ) … particularly on medical insurance.
If Lori, aka member of the Smother’s Mothers ;D, is not on the ANA board- she should be.( Lori should run for president of the USA- what-do-ya-say? ;) :D)
Ew-ah that rhymed. I feel a limerick coming on... ::) ;D :D
DHM :)
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There is a young forum poster from VA Beach
Who, like many on this thread, is not outta reach
She adds her own special brand of humor :D
So we can better deal with our tumor
Oh please, Ms. Lori, keep it up, we beseech! ;D
anon. 8)
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Fantastic...
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Aw, you guys...you're making me blush... :-*
Thanks for the vote of confidence as far the the Board goes, DHM, but that's another thing I don't plan to touch with a 10 foot pole! I've come to the conclusion (finally) that my life is much more enjoyable when I don't have any formal titles. I'm sure there are lots of informal ones that have been attributed to me anyway! :D
Now, President of the US - THAT I might think about. Really, how much worse could I do than those that have gone before me?
Greg, you are just a man of many talents!
Lori
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I'm sure there are lots of informal ones that have been attributed to me anyway! :D
*says nothing! ;D ;) :-* :-* *
this thread still lives? geesh..... ::)
*sits back with 2lb bag of Peanut M&M's*
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If Lori, aka member of the Smother’s Mothers ;D, is not on the ANA board- she should be
Don't do it Lori. They won't let you be "Lori" anymore. I know from wench I speak - they tried to "de-Jan" me ;)
I'm with you on that whole 10-foot pole idea.
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I'm glad they didn't succeed in "de-Jan-ifying" you! We love you just the way you are! ;)
Phyl, is the bag of m&m's to put in your mouth so you CAN'T say anything? :D
Isn't is nice of me to make fun of myself to save everyone else the trouble?
Lori
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Okay, time to get back on topic
Got this link from my younger brother, thought it was very interesting . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc
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Okay, time to get back on topic
Got this link from my younger brother, thought it was very interesting . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=G44NCvNDLfc
Marian the Librarian here popping in here ;D
Ok the speaker’s name is Michael J. "Mike" Rogers
Here is the WIKI (no they do NOT sell stocks ;)) webpage on the speaker in the clip posted above by Leapytwins
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rogers_(Michigan_politician)
Here is his webpage
http://www.mikerogers.house.gov/
I am still in the learning stage and have NO opinion to offer here. I appreciate Jan sharing this with us and in truth I did not know who this man was so I was prompted to look him up.
This whole Health Bill discussion is a learning process for me (and hopefully others)
Is it really true that we will NOT have a choice to pick our own doctors? If it is- that IS scary. The first doctor I complained about my AN symptoms suggested I see a stress therapist and did not write an ENT referral and belittled me when I suggested an MRI. If I were still with that doctor today- would I still be here?
Finally I decoded he was a chauvinistic so-and-so (the “stress therapist recommendation was the icing on the cake) and moved on… 8 years later I finally got someone who would actually write up an MRI order and there was the whopper 4 CM
Can someone show me the evidence that we cannot pick our own doctor- in the health bill?
DHM
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Can someone show me the evidence that we cannot pick our own doctor- in the health bill?
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act ('ObamaCare') requires that Americans buying through the insurance 'exchanges' -- and that will soon be most of us not already in Medicare -- must get their care through something called “medical home.†Medical home is similar to an HMO. You’re assigned a primary care doctor, and the doctor controls your access to specialists. The primary care physicians will decide which services, like MRIs and other diagnostic scans, are best for you, and will decide when you really need to see a cardiologists or orthopedists. One mitigating factor: as far as I can tell, paying cash (gasp) for physician services is not (yet) prohibited under the new law, which would allow a patient to chose his/her doctor.
I'm sure there will be many articles coming out in the next few months that will break down the exact terms of 'ObamaCare' and expand our understanding of what was in the 2,000 + pages of the controversial bill. I can hardly wait. ::)
Jim
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Phyl, is the bag of m&m's to put in your mouth so you CAN'T say anything? :D
sometimes less said makes a bigger impact! ;)
Oh, trust me... I'm watching you all! :)
Phyl
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Okay, Phyl, what will it take for you NOT to watch us ???
Supersized bag of caramel popcorn? Front row seat at a Red Sox game? Vacation in Aruba?
Jim -
thanks for the info on doctor selection.
This whole reform thing just keeps getting more interesting by the day. Wonder what other nice "surprises" are in that bill that politicians don't even realize they've voted for ???
Jan
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Okay, Phyl, what will it take for you NOT to watch us ???
Supersized bag of caramel popcorn? Front row seat at a Red Sox game? Vacation in Aruba?
John Henry's (owner of the BoSox) Luxury Box seats at a Sox/Yankees game! ;D Aruba... and ..... a high paying new job.
Other than that.... nothing much! :)
So, since my list is a toughy to achieve... I guess I'll still be watching! :)
Phyl
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Geez, you're a tough customer.
I can usually be bribed for a Hershey bar :D
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Here it is:
"I have a daisy on my toe,
it is not real,
it does not grow,
it's just a tattoo of a flower, so I'll look neat taking a shower,
it's on the second toe of my left foot,
a stem and flower but there's no root... 'cause that wouldn't look good?
I've got a daisy on my toe, it is not real, it does not grooooooowww..."
K ;D
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Here it is:
"I have a daisy on my toe,
it is not real,
it does not grow,
it's just a tattoo of a flower, so I'll look neat taking a shower,
it's on the second toe of my left foot,
a stem and flower but there's no root... 'cause that wouldn't look good?
I've got a daisy on my toe, it is not real, it does not grooooooowww..."
K ;D
Kay,
Were you intending the poem for maybe ... this post?
http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?topic=12227.msg141039#msg141039
DHM
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No, I believe I said one page back that I would be writing out my favorite Smothers Brothers song when I had time...
K ;D
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Thanks Kaybo - now we'll all have that song stuck in our heads all day! :D
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No, I believe I said one page back that I would be writing out my favorite Smothers Brothers song when I had time...
K ;D
OMG- Kaybo is right. This was an actual factual song
Here is video of a random person singing it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WgI1Wkr4n0
(I could not find a video of the Smother Brother's actually singing it- maybe I did not search hard enough)
Gee…Sounds like the Smothers Brothers were pretty controversial during the Vietnam War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smothers_Brothers
Well now am I not only getting an interesting education on the health bill- now one on also on American Pop Cultural History literacy.
I viewed a few of the Smother Brothers videos on-line this morning. I almost posted a couple of links to these but thought the better of it… even if they are wildly hysterically funny… Popcorn for breakfast seemed like an odd thing to have on the menu this Sunday morning ;) … so I decided not to.
However I did find one video clip on a news channel that talked about their book an history
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=9215290
… that only showed edited snippets of their different episodes.
DHM
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You know, I try to make Phyl happy and get this thread back on topic, and you guys go right back to the Smothers Brothers!! ::)
GEEZ!!!! ;) LOL
I personally am intrigued with the idea of ultimately not being able to choose your own doctor under our new Obama Care.
Well, actually intrigued isn't the right word. I am APPALLED! >:(
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For those who might be worried (not those looking for political ammo), I will make a few comments on the doctor question.
1. If you have insurance through work, that is not going to change any time soon. Carry on as usual.
2. If you end up buying insurance through an exchange, you will have a choice of provider and policy. How many choices, and whether those are all HMO-style, will depend on the market in your state. The law sets minimum standards for policies, but does not specify what options may be offered, nor require HMO plans.
3. Many current policies offered by employers use the HMO model, where you have a "gate keeper" PCP. Usually you get to pick one from their list.
4. Unlike previously, you will be able to change insurance provider and policy without fear of pre-existing condition restrictions or denial of coverage.
Precautionary note: Most of the actual rules implementing the law have not yet been written. Much of what appears in newspapers and online articles refers to various versions of the bill over the last year, not necessarily the final version that was passed.
Steve
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You know, I try to make Phyl happy and get this thread back on topic, and you guys go right back to the Smothers Brothers!! ::)
GEEZ!!!! ;) LOL
I personally am intrigued with the idea of ultimately not being able to choose your own doctor under our new Obama Care.
Well, actually intrigued isn't the right word. I am APPALLED! >:(
back on topic, eh? Oh, I'm here, watching... :)
Phyl
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Precautionary note: Most of the actual rules implementing the law have not yet been written. Much of what appears in newspapers and online articles refers to various versions of the bill over the last year, not necessarily the final version that was passed.
Steve ~
Thanks for that clarification. However, like many Americans, I find it troubling that 'most of the actual rules implementing the (health care) law have yet to be written. 2000 pages wasn't enough? Like so many others, that kind of federal law, with it's impenetrable legalese that requires layers of bureaucracies with a profusion of rules and regulations needed to implement it, makes many Americans a bit wary of the whole thing. Oh well, too late now.
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Jim, I know what you mean. For a little context, the 2007 budget bill under Bush was 1482 pages; the stimulus bill was 1100. While there are short bills (the one authorizing gold medals for the Apollo 11 crew was just 2 pages), the longer ones over 1000 are not that uncommon.
When they say writing the rules, I think they mainly mean setting up the forms, writing instructions for various departments, and actually going about the business of implementing what the law says. The IRS will do some; I assume a number of other US departments will do some; and the states will start doing some things as well.
It is pretty much how we do things in this country. It is not particularly efficient or pretty, but it beats having a dictator. I found a nice quote from James Madison:
"As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust: So there are other qualities in human nature, which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence. Republican government (that of a Republic) presupposes the existence of these qualities in a higher degree than any other form. Were the pictures which have been drawn by the political jealousy of some among us, faithful likenesses of the human character, the inference would be that there is not sufficient virtue among men for self government; and that nothing less than the chains of despotism can restrain them from destroying and devouring one another."
Those founding fathers were on the ball. :)
Steve
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Yes, they were on the ball. They envisioned a severely limited federal government with limited powers over the states and people. They certainly didn't envision the all-powerfull, oppresive dictatorish government like what it's doing now with ObamaCare for example. They specifically forbid the federal government from requiring everyone to buy a certain private product.
We need to get back to those principles and values on which our country was founded.
Regards,
Brian
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Thanks Jan, for getting this thread "back on topic" so that Phyl is able to comprehend exactly what she's watching ;)
Steve, I appreciate your thoughtful discussion and your effort searching out Madison's quote ... but I side with Jim and Brian in my feelings about the health care "reform". Jim said that Americans are, "...a bit wary of the whole thing." I voice that a bit stronger .... most Americans are p***ed off at being p***ed on by those in congress that are supposed to represent them .... but are not so doing, and have not for a long time. This is the reason many are gathering (town halls, tea parties, etc) in great numbers to voice their concerns and disgust.
I heard that Ron Paul will introduce a bill shortly, perhaps today, that addresses only a minute amount of the gigantic waste of paper voted on, but not read. His bill calls for overturning the requirement for Americans to buy health insurance ..... it will be one page long. Hey, perhaps congress will be able to read it before they vote on it ........ wow, something new!
PHYL .... back off topic .... and with all due respect to DHM (wiki-woman):
Aside to the JKL trio re the Smothers Brother's Mothers .....
There are still two likeable brothers,
Who, rumor says, had different mothers.
The reason, few know,
Never told on their show,
Is that their father had his druthers. :o anon. 8)
Greg
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PHYL .... back off topic .... and with all due respect to DHM (wiki-moman):
Aside to the JKL trio re the Smothers Brother's Mothers .....
There are still two likeable brothers,
Who, rumor says, had different mothers.
The reason, few know,
Never told on their show,
Is that their father had his druthers. :o anon. 8)
Greg
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D :D
Just in case some of you are not sure what Grega is talking about here
http://www.differentmothers.com/
Here is their link to some reviews
http://www.differentmothers.com/presskit/agents.pdf
Apparently tea party organizers like them… I wonder if they perform at coffee houses also.
I love my cup-of-coffee in the morning and my cup-of-tea in the afternoon as I do not prefer one over the other- but like to savor both. Of course both require plenty of hot water and brewing.
You know it was Scotty who really was the one to get me jiving to both. This is HE singing and dancing you-know ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pULXnVTRynY
Come on Scotty beam me up… I’ll see if we can get tickets to the Brothers-without-mothers …and we can have a coffee… or is that tea…?
Ok back to me morning menu of a cup of coffee with popcorn… the teas I’ll have later this afternoon with caramel popcorn…
By dinner I am sure with all that hot water and brewing I will be totally wired...
MMMM munch munch please pass the nurtritional yeast flakes and cayene peppper for my poprcorn.... Jan you really need to try the yeast flakes- it is SOOH nummy.... ;D :D
DHM
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DHM -
I'm beginning to think "nutritional yeast flakes" is another name for something else you've been sprinkling on your popcorn! Although, when used for medicinal purposes, maybe it will be covered by the new health care bill. :D
Lori
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Ron Paul is an awesome Congressman. He is from my district and he is very visible here. His grandson teaches social studies in our local junior high and Rep Paul comes and gives a q/a every year for his class. I called his Washington office on the morning of the VOTE and the call was answered on the second ring. The young man asked me if I wanted to speak directly to Rep Paul. I introduced myself and he immediately said, "Jensen and Paxton's grandma, who loves our cookbook (he and his wife send out the family cookbook yearly at Christmas time) and you bake cookies for the teachers and the students very often?" (It helps to have a different last name) I said yes, that's me, we both laughed, he said his wife wanted my sugar cookies recipe. I emailed it to her. He said of course he was voting against the heath care bill. I thanked him for talking to me and to keep up the great job of representing his constituents. He actually listens to what we have to say. I am anxiously awaiting word on the introduction of the bill he has drafted.
Brenda
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I am still dazed and confused ... gave up trying to read it and will watch and wait and hope it comes out in the end ...
used to watch the Smothers Brothers against wishes of Mom but it was on my Dad's list of shows he watched and so snuck in with him and watched ... alot of the political stuff went over my head ...later (a year or two later ) I had some aha moments when something clicked ...have dome DVDs of them somewhere along with Red Skelton ... watch them from time to time , and go back in time
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DHM -
I'm beginning to think "nutritional yeast flakes" is another name for something else you've been sprinkling on your popcorn! Although, when used for medicinal purposes, maybe it will be covered by the new health care bill. :D
Lori
:D :D :D :D
Don't worry the flakes are neither green nor brown... no leaves tea leaves or otherwise ;) ;D Just loaded with lots of vitamin B for nerve re-generation ;). I am not vegan either ... but after reading Fast Food Nation I can see why some are.
I could not, would not, on a boat
I will not, will not, with a goat.
I will not eat them in the rain.
I will not eat them on a train.
Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! You let me be!
I do not like them in a box.
I do not like them with a fox.
I will not eat them in a house.
I will not eat them with a mouse.
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them ANYWHERE!
… Say! I like green eggs and ham!
Hmmm I wonder what the history of the eggs and ham are? :-\ Where they have been? :-\ How far they travelled? :-\ Which corporation? ???
Hmmm
MMMMM munch munch … was this popcorn genetically engineered- that we are eating? Is it a product of Canada? :-\
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/product_of_canada_eh/
Video that has a sense of humor in the documentary ;) :D ;D
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/10/24/product_of_canada_eh/
OK back to the bill. What was that bill anyway... grocery?... oh right the health bill
Munch Munch... pass the bowl...
DHM :)
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Just in case some of you are not sure what Grega is talking about here
http://www.differentmothers.com/
WOW DHM ! Even I didn't know what I was talking about here :o .... as I had not heard of Seattle's "different mothers" brothers prior to your post. My little ditty was thought of in my SSD brain.
Gee, sorry if any plagerism happened in that lively limerick, but I can truthfully say that the thought came from a murder mystery weekend in PA few years back, where I had to come up with something that rhymed with Malabanga Brothers ..... yes, I have witnesses .... and no, it's a long story.
But thanks for the link to their comedy.
Greg .... mouth full of popcorn seasoned with Old Bay ;D
ps .... perhaps they got the idea from someone back East ...... hmmmm ???
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Just in case some of you are not sure what Grega is talking about here
http://www.differentmothers.com/
WOW DHM ! Even I didn't know what I was talking about here :o .... as I had not heard of Seattle's "different mothers" brothers prior to your post. My little ditty was thought of in my SSD brain.
Gee, sorry if any plagerism happened in that lively limerick, but I can truthfully say that the thought came from a murder mystery weekend in PA few years back, where I had to come up with something that rhymed with Malabanga Brothers ..... yes, I have witnesses .... and no, it's a long story.
But thanks for the link to their comedy.
Greg .... mouth full of popcorn seasoned with Old Bay ;D
ps .... perhaps they got the idea from someone back East ...... hmmmm ???
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D ::) :D :D :D :D :D
O gawd my side are killing me... :D :D :D :D :D
DHM
Psst everyone this is "Old Bay"
http://www.oldbay.com/
... hope I don't lead you astray
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I will stick to my salad with purple onion , finely diced , cucumber sliced thin , bits of bacon ( not to be confused with Bacon Bits that are fake and disgusting ... ranch dressing and a sprinkle of garlic salt ... I am trying to keep vampires at bay
Speaking of disgusting ...during week long Dr Seuss celebration the kindergärtners eat green eggs and ham ... the put food coloring in the eggs to make them green ...most ate them but some , like me , find green scrambled eggs hard to look at and impossible to swallow ...
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WOW, DHM!
You are a plethora of info ..... whoops, I mean you have a plethora of info!
bwt, Old Bay is great, huh?
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WOW, DHM!
You are a plethora of info ..... whoops, I mean you have a plethora of info!
bwt, Old Bay is great, huh?
Back to my lunch of fish sticks that came from a frozen box that says “Product of Canada†:-\
Hmmm where are these really from? ???
Before I think too much I better just season these with some Old Bay… Hmmm.. mmmm.. great seasoning hides all sorts of things we don’t want to know about… Hmm maybe I will try this on my popcorn… I wonder what it does for green eggs and ham? ;D
What will the sodium content do for my health? :-\ Oh yeah right the health bill- I forgot…
HMMM fish sticks with Old Bay HMMMMM munch munch
DHM :)
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Greg,
My husband told me I was the only person in the world who puts Old Bay on popcorn! Good to know there are two of us! Great minds....
Lori
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Just pour vous ..... and the curious ....
Whenever we sprinkle Old Bay,
We hear many utter "no way!"
Cause some haven't tried
On treats wet or dried.
But after, we only hear "YEA!" ;D
scheeeeeeeesch !!!!!!!!!!!! ::)
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Okay, I give up.
Apparently this is just one of those threads where no one wants to stick to the topic at hand.
Perhaps we should move it to a "serious" place - rather than leave it in the community section ???
Jan (aka party-pooper)
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WOW, DHM!
You are a plethora of info ..... whoops, I mean you have a plethora of info!
bwt, Old Bay is great, huh?
Back to my lunch of fish sticks that came from a frozen box that says “Product of Canada†:-\
Hmmm where are these really from? ???
Before I think too much I better just season these with some Old Bay… Hmmm.. mmmm.. great seasoning hides all sorts of things we don’t want to know about… Hmm maybe I will try this on my popcorn… I wonder what it does for green eggs and ham? ;D
What will the sodium content do for my health? :-\ Oh yeah right the health bill- I forgot…
HMMM fish sticks with Old Bay HMMMMM munch munch
DHM :)
Please tell me those sticks were made not made out of MINCED FISH :o … You must only eat fish sticks cut from WHOLE FILETS :)…. Never MINCED … Have you ever seen a MINCED FISH ??? Well have you ??? ::)
Going to corner to munch on yesterdays leftover movie popcorn seasoned with ... you got it Old Bay ... I figured might as well if everyone else was ...I sprinkled it on steaks last night along with my secret marinade grilling formula ...should have used it on my salad ... there is always dinner tonight or tomorrow ;D ... Old Bay was discovered when Daddy was stationed at Fort Meade and we found a little restaurant on an island in the bay , that served soft shell crab sandwiches with little legs hanging out ...never could bring ourselves to order one of those sandwiches ... I guess it wasn't discovered then , but that is when we discovered it
Old Bay was on the table with the salt , pepper , malt vinegar and sugar ......restaurant had picnic benches for tables with red and white checked clothes ... bibs and mallets a must when you ordered our favorite menu item... a sack of crabs ... they were brought to the table in a brown paper sack ... a dozen per sack ...sister wasn't ever with us as she was occupied elsewhere , but 4 kids and 2 adults can make short work of a sack of crab with alot of whacking of the mallets ... had to watch my youngest brother as he really liked the whacking part and didn't always confine it to the whacking of the crabs ...Old Bay on the hot as heck hand cut as ordered fries was a treat ... thanks for reminding me of this not forgotten but often neglected item in my spice drawer ... I just sprinkle it on stuff heading for the grill anymore … how could I forget about the fries ???
Now back to my corner and memories …sniffing Old Bay since popcorn is gone and nothing to nibble
Back to the health bill too … I wonder if you could drop insurance that you get through workplace and purchase through one of the government clearing houses if the coverage from them will be better than what you have got … a friend asked me this and I had no answer .. She has insurance ad bad as ours …
PS… Sarah says I ruined the popcorn …no accounting for taste
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now i have got to try to find Old Bay - never heard of it! Wonder if WalMart has it??
K ;D
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Kids just brought up the mail I was too lazy to go after today ... Hannah's leg braces were rejected for payment on second try ... they discounted one the first time it was submitted and said the other was not necessary ... it wouldn't be if she only had one leg ... they also said to alternate use ... that would work if she had two left or two right legs as the braces are side specific and have pads that push knee cap from outside of leg toward center... I know it is not a bill issue but an issue with bad coverage ... Stupid situations like this are what some people I have talked to want to see ended …
after all her therapy and the evaluations at Vanderbilt we are left with a big decision ... surgery or wait and see if enough bone will wear away from improper knee cap alignment and the caps will stop popping around ... she is all for waiting ... it worked for me but my legs were not as bad as hers and by 9 or so I wasn't falling ... she falls pretty much daily ... she has learned to tuck and roll good and says it doesn't bother her ... but she is also going from tom boy to young lady and dressing more girlish lately ... I don't think she wants to be tumbling around and showing her undies to passers by as she tucks and rolls ...also as you get bigger and bones harden to adult hardness you risk breaking bones ... She is also a lot bigger than I was … she is 5’4†and 120 pounds … at her age I had to carry rocks in my pockets to reach 80 pounds and was only about 4’ 10 or so … the extra weight could make it easier to break something …
she really doesn't want her legs operated on ... would either be to remove knee caps or shave them down and reposition tendons and ligaments ... thinking of contacting Shriner ...can't afford this as things are ... about $5000 total , just to be told that therapy wasn't going to work ...something I told them at the start ...sometime experience in being there out weighs expert opinion ... now have to get that paid off and give them a $4500 down payment to book surgery since it is considered elective ... deductible is $2400 per person and family out of pocket is $4500 … they said if anything was over paid we could apply for refund or leave it in case one of the girls needed treatment again at Vanderbilt ...
Sarah ,my younger girl , has laser surgery periodically to remove tissue from inside her mouth where she has a lymphatic malformation ...she has been a few years without surgery and they say with puberty it should stop growing ... we have kept it under control so her face isn't misshapen at this point … plan was to do a final shaping of corner of her mouth if needed when she hit 16 or so ... the way it is going I need to start putting back for this as soon as we get Hannah sorted out … and hope that nothing changes and she won’t need the final surgery … then any money saved could go for a big party or something …or a bottle of Tylenol
And off in left field from this point … last week my mom helped ( helped as in sat reading while they loaded stuff in her truck and she drove it to storage unit ) my twins move belongings of her dad’s … he passed away a few months ago at age of 86…at some point in time he was prescribed Viagra and it was paid for by Medicare … he had a stroke and cancer and was bedridden and no longer used it…had been bedridden for about 3 years … but he had been receiving it by mail and when going though stuff they found box after box of three month supplies , last one received in December … there was about 5 years worth of it …most of it out of date ….
Mom is pissed off to say the least … why do would they pay for Viagra for pleasure and refuse to pay for her cancer repressing drugs ? … they jokingly said that they were going to sell the in date Viagra on the street and use the money to buy her the medicine she need … is the bill going to address misuse of money in cases like this one ?
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now i have got to try to find Old Bay - never heard of it! Wonder if WalMart has it??
K ;D
Our Walmart does ... next to the Grill Mate seasonings and Steak Seasonings and crab boil all on your spice aile
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Look in the seafood department - near the lobster tank. I'm sure Walmart has it. Walmart has everything!!!
Soundy, I'm with you on the minced fish! ( I love that commercial with the little girl). Gotta have the real thing! And I also have never been able to eat a soft shell crab. I just don't like my food to have legs once it hits my plate.
And to keep Jan happy, seafood is just full of Omega-3 fatty acids - very heart healthy! A shrimp a day, with Old Bay, helps to keep Obama-care away! Oh my, this poetry thing is spreading!
Lori
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Even before the commercial I only bought whole filet sticks ... the girls won't eat them anymore but thought they were gourmet when they were toddlers until about 3 years ago ...I still buy them for myself ... and make my own sauce which until now I had not thought of putting OB in
http://www.oldbay.com/Product-Landing.aspx
I was going to find a picture for Kay and found this lovely site ... all we have is the original and rub ... all sorts of Old Bay products out there that will induce healthy eating since most of us don't eat enough fish ... gonna go peek around the site and find recipes and uses for Old Bay
and as for keeping on topic ... this thread has been , as mentioned before , good medicine in the form of laughter ...
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Video that has a sense of humor in the documentary ;) :D ;D
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2007/10/24/product_of_canada_eh/
Please tell me those sticks were made not made out of MINCED FISH :o … You must only eat fish sticks cut from WHOLE FILETS :)…. Never MINCED … Have you ever seen a MINCED FISH ??? Well have you ??? ::)
...
PS… Sarah says I ruined the popcorn …no accounting for taste
Soundy did you even view the video link above … or did the dial up prevent this again.
What? Sara Palin says that Old Bay ruins popcorn?!? ;) :D
Sorry I feel a Tina Fey skit coming on SNL … ;) 8) :D
Know that we are having fresh snapper from Canada (bought raw, no box, just have to trust the fresh fish market sign here in Oregon) as I “think†it is more health wise…
Speaking of Health… How about that Health Bill? … Jan is feeling left out here. :-* (we still love you Jan even if you won't try green eggs & ham or yeast flakes on popcorn served in a bike helmet)
I too am very concerned if the freedom to choose our own physician is at risk. This is a BIG issue in Canada ... also an issue is when you are at the mercy of a GP (PCP) to send you a referral... hopefully to and ENT and not a stress therapist.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could have the best of what is available in Canada and the USA (I am not talking fish sticks here but healthcare) but learn from the mistakes each other made... rather than repeat them.
DHM
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.
And to keep Jan happy, seafood is just full of Omega-3 fatty acids - very heart healthy! A shrimp a day, with Old Bay, helps to keep Obama-care away! Oh my, this poetry thing is spreading!
Lori
:D :D :D
I need to see a doctor about my aching side... I have laughed so much today that I cannot hide...
:D :D :D :D :D
To bad we cannot bottle the laughs and sell these... Hmmm laughter pills. 8) Will the FDA approve? Will these be covered on insurance? :-\ Will we be taxed for selling these? ;D
DHM
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any kind of video link I generally have to skip ... might click it and let it load while we eat
I was mainly just repeating the commercial Lori referenced
my Sarah said I ruined the popcorn ...
If I were to lose the right to go to my doctor I would just go doctor-less unless I had blood gushing out of my body ... he has kept me going for last 13 plus years ... can't imagine not having him there ... I know I am to dependent on him ...
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Just food for thought (pun intended for the current off-topic topic), under ObamaCare, the government can un-enroll an individual from their current employer-provided plan if they so choose.. They can also un-enroll an entire company from their current plan if they want. AND, they can ENROLL you into one of the Health Exchange plans of their choice.
So, this hogwash about being able to keep your plan if you like only holds water IF the all-powerfull, all-knowing federal government deems you're worthy of you're current plan.
How's that for power to the people?
Btw, anyone know the "fee" or "fine" they assess for not having insurance? My bet is that a lot of people will opt to NOT buy insurance and pay the fine because it will be cheaper in the long run to do that.. but, it will depend on what the "fee" or "fine" is for non-compliance.
Brian
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Has anyone heard how the suit filed by the various state-level attorneys general is progressing?
Sara
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Perhaps we should move it to a "serious" place - rather than leave it in the community section ???
Jan, I think you will find this is one of the rare threads where the mods are more comfortable when it is off topic. ::)
Steve
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That is a good one, Steve - good point!! ;)
K ;D
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Has anyone heard how the suit filed by the various state-level attorneys general is progressing?
Sara
Good question, Sara. I was wondering this myself. Anyone have any news?
And Pooter, I was wondering about the "un-enrollment" idea. Doesn't sound too good.
All I can say about the rest of this thread is it's definitely taking a turn for the worst - actually make that many turns for the worst. ::)
Jan
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The latest I've heard about the attorneys general suit is that 5 more states have joined the suit bringing the total to 18. I've heard also that they've planned to keep it as simple as possible to make the path through the courts as swift as possible. No matter what happens in the first levels of this, I expect it will be appealed by whatever side loses all the way to the Supreme Court. The prevailing thought is that the Court would narrowly overturn the law on Constitutional grounds. That could take a long time to get that far.
I haven't heard any news on the progress of the suit in the first round of the suit, though.
Brian
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Keep it simple. What a concept. Too bad congress did not subscribe to that idea writing the health care bill.
Sara
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Jan said: "Okay, I give up. Apparently this is just one of those threads where no one wants to stick to the topic at hand."
Please don't give up .... seems there are alternating pages .... #17 was off-topic .... #18 is on-topic .... so you're still in luck, depending on when Kay finds Old Bay in her local Walmart.
(Thank you mods!)
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Btw, anyone know the "fee" or "fine" they assess for not having insurance? My bet is that a lot of people will opt to NOT buy insurance and pay the fine because it will be cheaper in the long run to do that.. but, it will depend on what the "fee" or "fine" is for non-compliance.
Brian ~
From the federal Joint Committee on Taxation report released earlier this week:
Individuals who fail to maintain minimum essential coverage in 2016 are subject to a penalty equal to the greater of: (1) 2.5 percent of household income in excess of the taxpayer’s household income for the taxable year over the threshold amount of income required for income tax return filing for that taxpayer under section 6012(a)(1);67 or (2) $695 per uninsured adult in the household. The fee for an uninsured individual under age 18 is one-half of the adult fee for an adult. The total household penalty may not exceed 300 percent of the per adult penalty ($2,085). The total annual household payment may not exceed the national average annual premium for bronze level health plan offered through the Exchange that year for the household size…
The penalty applies to any period the individual does not maintain minimum essential coverage and is determined monthly. The penalty is assessed through the (tax) Code and accounted for as an additional amount of Federal tax owed. However, it is not subject to the enforcement provisions of subtitle F of the Code. The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty. Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the Code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner.
If this is completely accurate, it means that the IRS really has no authority to enforce the fine and not carrying medical insurance carries no civil or criminal penalty. Oh, and this doesn't take effect until 2016....another 6 years.
It's a 'Catch-22' situation. If you don't elect to carry (and pay for) medical insurance there is essentially no penalty. That's fine - except - that many Americans will simply decide to save the money and not purchase medical insurance because the law will mandate that health insurers must accept anyone with a pre-existing medical condition. So, I can see millions of people not buying medical insurance coverage until they come down with something or are injured. Then they'll buy health insurance...and the insurance company will have no recourse but to accept the person. Nice.
This will mean that those of us that chose to carry health insurance will be paying much higher premiums to help the insurance companies offset their increased cost of insuring those who have put nothing into the insurance system but immediately withdraw benefits on applying for a policy that they cannot legally be denied. I believe that this will quickly make health insurance unaffordable and the government bureaucracy will then decree that insurance companies cannot charge over a certain amount. This will be touted as being 'fair'. That will make selling health insurance an untenable proposition (zero profit) and the private insurance companies will simply cease to exist. The government will then be 'forced' to replace them and we'll have a 'single payer' system, just as many have always wanted. Then you'll probably see the law amended to make 'non-compliance' punishable in some form, probably civil and enforced by the feared IRS.
I've stated my views on previous posts and won't belabor the points already raised but this is going to be a whale of a mess and I believe many will be hurt by this new law, which was unnecessarily sweeping and carries far too many mandates and restrictions that are only going to be exacerbated by a smothering bureaucracy instituted to implement the near-unfathomable law. For those now carrying medical insurance, look for your premiums to be raised very soon as the insurance companies prepare for the onslaught of the uninsured that they'll be forced to cover, no matter what.
This misguided concept of using the force of government to make everyone pay more and very likely receive less in medical benefits in order to cover the 15% of Americans that do not carry medical insurance (including illegal aliens and those who opt not to be insured by their own choice) will undoubtedly be proven to be unacceptable to most working Americans. As for me, I'm stuck on Medicare which is being cut - drastically - and should I require a life-saving procedure or treatment anytime soon, I'm probably not going to get it as 'resources will have to be rationed' and guess who will be considered 'expendable'? As I often say: elections have consequences.
Now, as a distraction, I'm going to re-read my copy of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. Although the book was published over 50 years ago, she was eerily prophetic.
Jim
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So I had to look up Atlas Shrugged because I've never read it. Which led me to the word dystopian, and I had to click on that to see what it meant. Which led me to an interesting article defining that, and that led me to the literature and I've read a few of those books. Interesting.
Sue in Vancouver, USA
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So I had to look up Atlas Shrugged because I've never read it. Which led me to the word dystopian, and I had to click on that to see what it meant. Which led me to an interesting article defining that, and that led me to the literature and I've read a few of those books. Interesting.
Sue ~
Although I'm not quite ready to declare America a dystopia, I'm pleased to have stirred your interest, in whatever form that took.
Jim
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Right.. I can't see ANYONE gaming THAT system to their advantage. Premiums will go down, huh? In what alternate reality are these Democrat congressman in thinking that this bill was going to do anything but raise premiums, lower the level of care, decrease the access, etc.. ?
It certainly smells like this was intentional in order to get us into a single-payer government run system because gosh, the current system is bankrupt.. Well yeah, you stacked the deck against them!
Lordy, what's next...
Brian
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I imagine the IRS will find a way to collect. Among other things, the extra tax would reduce refunds and tax credits. I believe that insurance policies will be allowed a 3 month waiting period for coverage of existing conditions, to discourage those who would pay the tax until insurance was needed. I think most people want health insurance anyway, since they never know when they might end up in an emergency room with a broken leg from a car accident.
On a lighter note, here is video from Seattle of a "flash mob." I am thinking that we should start putting one of these together for the symposium in Cincinnati in 2011. I nominate Jan and DHM to organize it. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5PyIVVKoWU
Steve
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36472308/ns/health-health_care
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Steve,
Apparently the flash mob is inspired by the TV series and the movie Glee. I have seen neither the TV series nor the movie so I am unsure of the bases for this street dancing movement, as I am NOT American Pop Culturally literate :-\ on this topic yet. I will research and get back to you-all later. ::)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36472308/ns/health-health_care
Jan,
The person who finally listened to me and agreed with my suggestion that I should have an MRI to look for a tumor was a “nurse practioner†at my doctor’s office. He, the NP, wrote the referral and I went to see the ENT. (3 cheer of that!)
However in that same office often I was challenged to get into see the actual doctor (My PCP). With in the same month before I got the results of the MRI I went in to their clinic, as I could not sleep. One nurse practioner prescribed a muscle relaxant (BTW I later understood I could not sleep as the brain stem was so squished by the AN tumor). Being tired that week I lost my balance and put my back out. Again I could not get in to see the doctor as he was booked up. So I accepted a nurse practioner appointment as a replacement as I needed to see someone about my back -ASAP. This was a different nurse practioner, in the same clinic, who prescribed for me a different drug (apparently unaware that I was prescribed a muscle relaxant the week before which somehow was not written in my chart… or something) and I had a terrible drug interaction. All this being the same day the ENT called with my diagnose of the AN. (One bad day) After the drug interaction (which included convulsions) I went to an RX site to read these drugs should NEVER have both been prescribed to me at the same time. So I wrote a letter to the doctor first informing him I was diagnosed with an acoustic neuroma (this was news to him and the nurse practioner had not yet informed him of the MRI results) and second of all I was questioning how I was prescribed interacting drugs by two separate nurse practioners within his SAME clinic. Gee the next day he suddenly had an opening to see me in his office to “talkâ€- and of course I was billed for a “talkâ€. (BOOO!)
The clinic, I discovered with time, was a disorganized chaotic fiasco mess. (Many staff was computer illiterate- it seemed) There were huge issues with communication between nurse practioner and doctor and I feel (now) the nurse practioners should NOT have given me those prescriptions. (On all levels there were record keeping problems- the nurses, not just nurse practioner, wrote terrible reports that had grammatical and spelling errors plus incomplete information)
This past year I wrote to the doctor, who has more of his patients go to the nurse practioners than see him as he is not available, and explained my frustration and that I felt I should be looking for a new clinic for my family as there had been one to many mistakes… When they screwed up with my child I was less than patient. One of his fellow doctors (he hired his son- I won’t touch that separate topic about relatives working in the same medical clinic issues) and a nurse stood there disagreeing with each other, in front of me and my child, about whether or not my child could (or could not) have an adult dose flu vaccine. There were such obvious inconsistencies and power struggles going on in the clinic. I took my child and just walked out of the office without her getting a vaccine (never to return). I then went to a new clinic of “doctors" and got my child vaccinated.
I was happy that a good listening nurse practioner helped with the diagnoses of my mystery symptoms and was a catalyst in finding my AN tumor by writing a referral to a specialist… however I was NOT happy with the overzealous writing up of prescription drugs on the RX pad.
There are pros and cons here. I think the doctor chose this set up of having as many nurse practioners as doctors as it was “cost effectiveâ€. After my experience from that I have decided NEVER to go to a clinic that has a structural set up like that AGAIN (Fortunate in this country I currently have a choice to walk out and look elsewhere). I have only selected clinics that have a team of “doctors†with maybe one nurse practioner. I have experienced when you go to see a nurse practioner because your doctor is so booked up you cannot get in – major issues come up.
I feel that the doctor is ultimately responsible for ALL the staff in the clinic. And if their nurse practioner messes up that reflects on them- the doctor(s).
Currently my opinion is that it is ok for a nurse practioner to write up referral for a patient to see a specialist however I have had such negative experience with nurse practioners writing prescriptions, in my case, that I currently do not support that. I never had a nurse practioner in Canada when I lived there. The nurse practioner experience was new for me when I moved to Oregon State- here in the US. I thought the nurse practioner at my OBGYN office was great -however she never wrote up a prescription for me.
Jan thanks for sharing that article.
DHM
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On a lighter note, here is video from Seattle of a "flash mob." I am thinking that we should start putting one of these together for the symposium in Cincinnati in 2011. I nominate Jan and DHM to organize it. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5PyIVVKoWU
Steve
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Apparently the flash mob is inspired by the TV series and the movie Glee. I have seen neither the TV series nor the movie so I am unsure of the bases for this street dancing movement, as I am NOT American Pop Culturally literate :-\ on this topic yet. I will research and get back to you-all later. ::)
_____
Ok NOW I get it
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :)
Liverpool street Station famous video (T mobile dance)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ3d3KigPQM
When this happened without Oprah’s knowledge
http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/The-Making-of-Oprahs-Flash-Mob-Dance-Video
A British News Story
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1117183/Dance-Of-The-Commuters-400-strong-flash-mob-gets-funky-Liverpool-Street-Station.html
NBC Chicago
http://www.nbcchicago.com/around-town/events/Oprahs-Flash-Mob-Style-Dance-58166602.html
Flash mob history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob
Ok I am IN! How about you Jan? Lori? Steve? We need to choreograph in a kayak somehow... (Hey they had a canoe ;) at the opening of the 2010 Winter Olympics- ANYTHING is possible!) ... Joef are you in? ;)
DHM :D :)
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I'm in! ;D
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RE Flash mob history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob
Quote from the webpage linked above
United States
In April 2009, police used pepper spray to break up a flash mob event at University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, and arrested five people.[28] In December 2009, Old Dominion University campus police pepper-sprayed a flash mob.[29]
In 2009 and 2010 Center City Philadelphia has had at least four incidents where flash mob gatherings have turned violent. During these incidents, teenagers ran through the streets or malls, vandalized property, fought with each other, and attacked passers-by resulting in injuries and arrests. Similar incidents have occurred in Boston, South Orange, New Jersey, Brooklyn, and Kansas City.
Violence and willful destruction of property is totally NOT cool with me. >:( Peaceful demonstration to bring awareness to a cause is cool 8)- especially when there is choreographed dancing. I like the Liverpool Station video the most as it has a variety of music styles and genres of dance... all races, genders and ages dancing together.
The 80+ year old in our Oregon support group who dances impresses me... I would love to see ole Scotty (aka Jim Scott) dancing too. Beam me up... ;) ;D
DHM
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About the performance Flash Mobs, the one in Singapore is really fun. I'm just curious how you practice for something that big! ha Singapore has a big group that has done this in several places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrTf6anF0r8
Sue in Vancouver, USA
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Wow this new Flash Mob Dancing is really taking off :o - until today I had NO idea how big it was 8) . This is what the new generation is doing to make their social statements…
LAZ (LARRY) where are you???
Here is one from Australia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S2T5vPHjS8
In truth I would never have looked up “power shift†until I saw this one
I guess between electronic communications and the language of dance- many people can be reached. I am NOT saying I am on-board with their website but the dance with all those kids sure caught my attention.
I can’t wait to share this with my tween and teen kids. (Who probably are already in-the-loop and will just say to their middle age mother “Gee -Get with the program Mom. Da… this has been around for a while now" ::))
Thanks Steve for bringing us old fogies in -on how the new generation is staging demonstrations. Maybe I might be hip with the teens now. :-\ ;) :D ;D
Hmmm a flash mob dancing video to bring awareness to acoustic neuroma 8) (and our insurance woes too :-\ )
... Steve you ARE our creative one that is for sure. Ok Steve is the creativity director... yes? :-*
DHM :)
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It's like herding cats around here... *sigh*
B
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Google
"Jollibee Flash Dance Mob Video Mall of Asia, Philippines last August 8, 2009"
Internationally this is HUGE- I had no idea. :o :o 8)
So what's that Pooter wants us to dress as CATS :-\ (in hats ;)) ? :D :D :D :D :D
Huggles Pooter :-*
:D
DHM
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Oh yeah, I'm in alright. As in - IN ANOTHER STATE!
I will be forced to pretend I don't know you dancin' fools. I have plenty of experience with pretending not to know my children, this won't be too difficult. ;)
Brian, I wish I had something to add to the topic at hand, but I don't...now get back to herding! You're from TX - this should be easy for you! :D
Lori
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It's like herding cats around here... *sigh*
B
I'm with you Pooter.
This is my last post on this thread.
I tried . . .
Jan
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I know, it takes all the fun out of hijacking when no one yells at you! :D
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Not that really - and I can certainly hijack with the best of them.
I just think this topic warrants some serious discussion and although I just broke my own rule (about not posting on this thread again) I think we should either move this topic or get back to serious discussion.
Since no one is with me on this, I'm going to take my ball and go home.
Jan
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But it's not in the "Insurance" category - it's in the AN Community category! No need to be serious here! :P We just have to play nice and ship adequate amounts of popcorn to Phyl.
Lori
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I'm with you Jan.. I'm taking my ball and going home too. This topic will directly affect every single person on this forum. It's a topic well worth a discussion about the impact of this law and how it will directly affect those of us who have AN's (hey! They's about all of us!).. But, we can't have a meaningful discussion about the law, etc with constant distactions of Flash Mob Dancing, popcorn covered with various flavorings or flakes of this or that, oreos and detailed definition reports about every colloquialism or nuiance to the english language. In the "Insurance" area or in the "AN Community" area doesn't much matter as the topic is one of importance and it matters to ALL of us. Or so I thought...
Brian
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I'm with you Jan.. I'm taking my ball and going home too. This topic will directly affect every single person on this forum. It's a topic well worth a discussion about the impact of this law and how it will directly affect those of us who have AN's (hey! They's about all of us!).. But, we can't have a meaningful discussion about the law, etc with constant distactions of Flash Mob Dancing, popcorn covered with various flavorings or flakes of this or that, oreos and detailed definition reports about every colloquialism or nuiance to the english language. In the "Insurance" area or in the "AN Community" area doesn't much matter as the topic is one of importance and it matters to ALL of us. Or so I thought...
Brian ~
Although I agree with you regarding the relevance of the issue (the new health care law) to AN patients (and all Americans) we also have to recognize that not every poster is interested in discussing it here. Hence, the lighthearted, 'off topic' posts you're seeing in this thread that are perfectly normal in the 'Community' forums - and not really unexpected. I realize that discussion of controversial issues is usually avoided on the ANA discussion forums and so, I think this kind of topic is off-putting to some for the reason that it is complex and has a distinct political flavor, because it concerns the government being intimately involved in every Americans health care, to some extent. Exactly to what extent is yet unknown, and that unknown is a cause of much angst to some of us. However, this is an 'open' forum and we cannot, nor would we wish to dictate the nature of the posts our members chose to send. With that in mind, I suggest we simply wait until the effects of the new law are better known and, in fact, 'hit home' for some. Then, I suspect the issue will be better received. Until then, my PM box is open to anyone wishing to discuss this issue. With that, I'll pick up my own ball and exit this ridiculously long thread. :)
Jim
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…Since no one is with me on this, I'm going to take my ball and go home.
Jan
I'm with you Jan.. I'm taking my ball and going home too…
Brian
... With that, I'll pick up my own ball and exit this ridiculously long thread. :)
Jim
OK so Jan , Pooter and Scotty finally make it clear they want to play “ball†… and not dance.
CBS Obama plays ball with the press- (tease)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBn-09NarKA
Both Obama and Bush play ball- apparently ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1pJU1rSpLg
Know I did not vote neither right nor left… and I am listening to both sides right now
CBS (from March but still a top headline hit for Google)
Health Care Reform Bill Summary: A Look At What's in the Bill
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000846-503544.html
Top News
US Lawmakers Likely to Seek Private Insurance
http://topnews.us/content/216733-us-lawmakers-likely-seek-private-insurance
NPR
Confusion Over Insurance Changeover For Congress
by JULIE ROVNER
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125914073
3 random articles thrown at you from today’s Google new headlines with the key words “health billâ€
THAT ought to get the ball rolling.
Jan you provided a link about nurse practioners. I did not ignore this and stated my experience. You can comment on that if you wish…
Just know I dance better than I play ball as I have become a little leary of contact sports with that big ole titanium plate over my ole crantiotomy hole. When the ball is thrown at me as someone says “catchâ€- I have NO idea what direction the voice is being yelled from being SSD… and all. In dance people try to work together in unison to get ideas across… in ball games they just beat-the-pants off each other :-\ to see who wins.
Play ball … but know at random a group could gather when you least expect it and start dancing at any moment- in the middle of a mall, a basketball court, a baseball field, a cricket match… tennis court
Play ball but know the floor can also be used for dancing.
(I am trying to imagine Pooter in the middle of a big ole Texas ball field :-\ herding dancing cats ;)… attired in a knitted cap made by a creative director. ;D :D )
DHM :)
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…Since no one is with me on this, I'm going to take my ball and go home.
I'm with you Jan.. I'm taking my ball and going home too…
... With that, I'll pick up my own ball and exit this ridiculously long thread. :)
At this point, it is really all predictions anyway. What will happen in the future is not yet a fact, and remember that most people picked Kansas in the NCAA tourney this year. The only facts so far are that the House passed a bill, the Senate passed a version of it, the House accepted the Senate version, the House passed a resolution bill, the Senate accepted the resolution, and the president signed on the dotted line. Here and elsewhere I have read and heard a wide range of opinions on what it all means, most of them distinctly tinged with a political outlook and good helping of either pessimism or optimism. None of it so far is definitive, nor can it be.
Early on the mods wondered what might become of this thread. I suggested we keep it as a place for members to express what they feel about this event, and I think it has served that purpose reasonably well. It is not possible for it to answer the questions about how the changes will impact each of us. It is possible for it to morph into a raggedy political discussion, something the ANA does not want on this forum, and something that can be found on plenty of other websites already.
Perhaps it is time to move on, and let this thread fade out. We can do the popcorn and dancing videos in one of the other AN Community topics.
Steve
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... It is not possible for it to answer the questions about how the changes will impact each of us. It is possible for it to morph into a raggedy political discussion, something the ANA does not want on this forum, and something that can be found on plenty of other websites already.
Perhaps it is time to move on, and let this thread fade out. We can do the popcorn and dancing videos in one of the other AN Community topics.
Steve
Agreed.
DHM
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DHM,
This is an interesting topic and being a diversionist myself, the flash dance thing was, well, different. Good shots of the opera house and bridge but!
Health is a topic that afeects everyone and more so us inflicted folk. Down under, our forecer interventionist government is now trying to take over all of the country's health. Until now, health is managed by the states and funded largely through GST revenue (sales tax). The feds want to take it over but without boring everyone on the details, there is nothing new or better like no more beds, no more doctors or nurses. The only thing I can see is more admin costs. Our federal government are so bad at running things they have botched every project they have started. Too many to list here unless anyone is interested. My take on health is keep the government out of it. Government cannot run a business and health is a business. Governments are too big and clumsy and have far too much bureacracy in them to effectively manage anything progressive.
take care
Laz.
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Thanks Laz, for your viewpoint. It's very important for US citizens to hear input from those in other countries (e.g. Australia, Canada, UK, France, etc) where the type of health care being proposed for this country is now in place. Sounds scary.
Thanks Steve, for your list of facts, with which I don't disagree. But one important fact that's been omitted is that, during the entire time our representatives were trying to pass health care reform, the vast majority of citizens were, and still are, against what was passed, as well as the process by which it was done. "Our" non-reading, uncaring representatives are .... :-X .. not representing their constituents.
Greg
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I understand that it has been proposed to "fade" out this thread, but I couldn't resist to this.
With all due respect, I will protest to the statement that what's happening in Canada, Europe and other countries is "scary". How "scary" is it to use health care resources for free (yes, of course payed by taxes but available to everyone without discrimination), showing only your health card, without ever having to sign a paper or seeing a bill? There are pros and cons, weaknesses to all systems and the answers are not obvious. Having lived in both Europe and Canada, I might say that most of the rest of the globe views some aspects of the health care in the States, like not having universal coverage for all, as "scary".
Marianna
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Yesterday I ended up in the ER with a brain wreck of a headache. My bloody occipital nerve is really doing me in. My card was swiped, blood pressure taken, questions asked, medications noted, doctor, saw me, nurse gave me an injection of toradol in the rump and dilaudid orally. The nurse asked me to wait to talk to the doctor. The doctor popped back in about 20 minutes later, discussed who debulked my tumour and how did I find out about Dr Rutka at the Toronto General. Turns out he did a rotation with Dr Rutka when he was in Med school and thinks very highly of him. He also asked if I was feeling better and at that point I was, so he gave me a script for dilaudid since I already have toradol to get me through until Thursday when I see the neurologist.
I was there a total of three hours and forty-five minutes. It cost me nothing. Today had a regular scheduled appointment with my family doctor, swipe of the card, no charge. MRI was done almost two weeks ago, swipe of the card no charge, D&C March 31, swipe of the card no charge, I see the neurologist this Thursday, swipe of the card no charge, I see Dr Rutka May 26, swipe of the card no charge.
I do not think of Ontario, Canada health care system as scary. I think of it as a blessing. Thank you Marianna for your eloquent words. You write so much better than I do.
Anne Marie
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Unfortunately I do not see the American health care system as moving toward swipe of the card, no charge.
Sara
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Unfortunately I do not see the American health care system as moving toward swipe of the card, no charge.
Sara
I don't either .
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Anne Marie,
The untold story is that it wasn't exactly "free". It costs somebody something, very likely you in the form of higher taxes or something like that. So, "free" only means you didn't have to pay at the time of services, but like it or not you (and likely other people as well) paid for your medical treatments. Also very likely is that the cost for services are paid for by people who don't use the system to that extent. I'm not faulting you for using it. That's a great deal for you. The flip side is the person who has to pay those extra taxes or whatever even though they NEVER use the system.
The plain fact is that medical care isn't cheap. It's ALWAYS expensive for someone. It just may not be you.
I don't see the US system becoming a swipe and it's covered kind of system either. Likely, we won't be the country with the most medical advances or breakthrough innovations in technology or procedure anymore. Nobody wants to pay for it. The rest of the world will suffer for it, in my opinion. Where is the motivation by companies to create new drugs, or new treatments? I seriously doubt that the noble cause of helping mankind will be the motivating factor.
We've been down this road before, you and I. Respectfully, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree again.
Brian
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ain't this thread dead yet? ::)
*sits back with diet cinnamon rice cakes to work on girly figure....*
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I'm with you, Phyl.
I thought this thread had finally died a well deserved death. Why it was resurrected is beyond me ::)
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Ah, Marianna and Anne Marie, thank you for your words of sanity but unfortunately the mindset of those in the US against Health Reform is set and they do not listen or read the truth in what you say. There is so much propaganda here as to all the terrible things that will happen once there is health care for all it is unbelievable as per some of the silly posts here. As the many countries that have it prove it can work. It may not be perfect but it certainly would be a lot better than what we have now.
Thanks again and I cheer your words of sanity.
Neal
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Neal,
with all due respect, where has anyone spread fear or propoganda? Mostly, I've seen people stick to the facts. The discussion has denegraded itself to name calling or fear mongering, in my estimation. I did, however, point out the ugly truth that healthcare isn't cheap and "free" often only means "free at the time of service" or "free to you" or both. Somebody is always going to pay the bill. Either with higher taxes, rationed services, by those that don't use the system at all, etc.
If that's propoganda, show me where I'm wrong. Show me one system in the world that provides healthcare services without raising taxes, rationing services or pays for itself by those that don't even use the system. Just one. It doesn't exist.
What Obama, Pelosi and their ilk won't tell you is that a government, Universal coverage system isn't really "free" at all. You will pay for it one way or another. "Free" very often doesn't really mean "free".
Show me where I'm wrong because I'm willing to back off my position if I can be shown that "free" truly does mean "free" in this isolated case.
Brian
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I never said it is "free". Nothing is free. Constructing roads is not free, nor is anything else available in a civilized society. I said that it is "paid by taxes and available to everyone without discrimination".
The main difference is a philosophical one. Should health care be "for profit", governed by business rules, or is it a right that should be accessible for everyone (so everyone should pitch in, even if they don't use it "at the moment"). Of course, everyone's opinion on this is well respected and there are valid arguments on both sides, as this lengthy thread has shown.
One last point: I have seen the argument again and again that the private sector is more efficient than government. This may very well be in many cases, but the recent economic crisis which was mainly caused by the private sector proved that this is not always true.
Marianna
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The whole concept of insurance, be it home, car, or health, is based on the idea that everyone pays in, and the few who need it get the benefits. That has been true in the past, and will continue to be true in the future. For each one of us in the US who had their AN treatment covered by insurance, there are many people who paid premiums, or whose employers paid premiums, and didn't have claims that year. That's how it works.
Steve
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While that is true, Steve, my AN was covered initially by one insurance company. Midstream, about two weeks before my surgery, my husband's company changed insurance companies. I was very nervous about not having coverage. Fortunately, because it was continuous coverage, I was covered. A few months after my over half million dollar claim hit another person in my husband's company was diagnosed with cancer. When the policies came up for renewal (it was a one year policy) the costs almost doubled for each person in the company. Two people out of ninety-two used the coverage.
I went ten years with the same auto insurance, with no accidents, no tickets, no glass chips. An illegal ran my car off the road and totaled my car. The illegal had no driver's license, no registration, no inspection (required in Texas) and towing an overloaded, unlicensed trailed with a flat tire and they were speeding. The illegal got a ticket for no driver's license, spent one night in jail, and another illegal drove the unlicensed truck away with the sheriff's blessing. What happened to me with my spotless driving record? The insurance company canceled me, refused to pay the damage (auto finance company is now fighting with them because we had GAP insurance). The insurance company refused to pay the uninsured motorist coverage because according to my policy they can claim a terrorist act if the person involved in the accident was in this country illegally.
So in as much as that is the way insurance is supposed to work, it hasn't for me and for many others.
Brenda
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Marianna - If you'll notice, I directed my comments directly to Anne Marie, who DID say "It cost me nothing". I'm fully aware that nothing is ever free. Our tax dollars go towards the building of roads, street signs, cops, military, DMV, post office, and even to study the migratory habits of the spanish fruit fly. I agree that the difference is a philisophical one. Many people believe that those that make the money should give over half of it to the government so that those that don't make enough can benefit from it, while others feel that they should be able to give their money out how THEY see fit. Those that feel, like me, that I know better where to give my money than the almighty government as they have a historical track record of tragic mishandling of money (hence the US Government's almost 13 TRILLION dollar debt), gross inefficiencies (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc...), and tremendous projected cost overruns (just about every Government-run program out there). They always need more and more and more "for the good of everyone", but it's NOT good for everyone. They're not good at what they've done so far, so why should I have ANY confidence that they'll be good at this either? The philisophical difference is that some have confidence in the government and some do not. Count me firmly in the camp that does not.
Steve - True. The concept of spreading the risk over a group of people is the same. Where we differ is that I don't think the government has any right being in the insurance business. They're not good at the things that they do, so why would this be any different? To be fair, those of us that had our AN treated in the US covered by insurance were paid by the group to which we belonged to at the time NOT by other employers who had no claims. The group to which we belonged paid for it and often times suffered higher premiums because of that treatment claim. One thing struck me as odd about your post... If the concept is the same with this new system, how is it any different than what we had before? As I see it, premiums will continue to rise and care will ultimately be rationed by bureaucrats instead of premiums rising and care affected directly by insurance companies.. All we've done is shift who's going to cause the premium increases and who affects the care. So, again, we've absolutely flushed over a trillion tax payer dollars over the next 10 years...
Steve, let's see how you feel over the next 4-6 years as your premiums continue to rise, your taxes continue to rise, and you're no better off with your healthcare than you are at this present time. Again with the facts. Sorry about that.
Brian
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Pooter,
I'd sooner pay taxes than the ridiculous rates you pay for your HMO. If I were to add up my taxes and compare it to what you pay for your HMO I would still come out with more money in my pocket than in yours. My family consist of 6, with 4 young men in college and university. Thankfully they live at home and are able to commute to and from very decent institutions that have also been partially funded with tax paying dollars.
What I said was no charge, not free. There are no other co-pays or additional insurance cost. I do not have to worry about going over a dollar amount that has been pre-set or if I am going to be dropped because of a pre-existing condition.
Every member on this forum must realize that you have "The World" visiting here, for information, support, and guidance. I realize that the majority of the users are from the USA, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us cannot have an opinions and there isn't some validity in our opinions.
Eloquence isn't one of my strengths especial when I'm in pain. Lobbyist, back room deals, the economy and education is what really needs attention.
This is from a crazy Canadian who has no debt, has paid for half of her 4 son's education and has a decent retirement savings. Oh yeah she has also been on disability for 2 yrs. Maybe this crazy Canadian isn't so crazy eh?
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Anne Marie,
Calm down.. Take a deep breath. What you don't realize is that with the current system passed by our Congress and signed into Law by President Obama is that not only do we now how to pay premiums (that are likely to go up instead of down, btw), but now we ALSO have to pay higher taxes to pay for this new monstrous health care plan. I'm quite confident that if we stacked your taxes versus my premiums and higher taxes that are specific for this health care system, you'd come out WAY ahead over what I will be paying. I think that proves my point.. The current "solution" isn't a solution to reducing my health care costs. In the end, I'll end up paying more for less.
Indidentally, since when did "no charge" not mean "free" ? Either it costs something or it doesn't, right? True that our current system has co-pays and additional costs, limits on the total coverage, and yes some people are dropped over pre-existing conditions (or are never able to get insurance because of that). If you'll notice, I NEVER said that our current system wasn't without it's faults. On the contrary, my claim is that it does need some tweaking but not a gigantic monstrous overhaul as was done with this new law. I contend that it will cost me (and everyone else) more, will not bring costs down as was one of the intents, and likely will result in the rationing of medical care in an attempt to save money.
I NEVER said that someone outside the USA couldn't have opinions. In fact, I welcome the opinions of others outside the USA to get a better perspective. I NEVER EVER said that your opinions weren't valid or valued ones. Please don't attribute statements to me which I have not said nor condone.
Nor have I ever called you a crazy Canadian. I'm happy that you're in the situation that you are in. Having to put 4 boys through school, no debt, build up a decent retirement savings all while staying at home and being on disability for 2 years is quite the feat. I envy your position as do many other Americans I'm sure. I still fail to realize how the current healthcare law is going to open the doors necessary for us all to realize that dream.
You know.. You're absolutely right. Lobbyist (both sides), back room deals (both sides), the economy and education are some of the things that should be fixed. Let us not forget about the jobless rate as that needs some attention also. And, also the out of control spending by our "leaders" should be looked at also. All of that begs the question; why make such a massive overhaul of the healthcare system in such a way that will end up costing us more in the long run and create a massive amount of beauacracy at a time when there are other more pressing problems?
Brian
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My migraine has intensifed 10-fold! Let's remain civil folks. Important conversation... definately, but name calling/flaming/etc. will not be tolerated.
I will remind you all that my diet rice cakes are here with me...... and that this thread is continued to be watched carefully. Agree to disagree... BUT with respect. Anything less than that will not be tolerated.
thanks!
Phyl
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This issue of the American health care system is extremely complex and it is best left to the US citizens to debate it and decide what is suitable for them.
I personally wasn't even following this thread, much less participating, because frankly it is none of my business anyway. What caught my eye (and I think Anne Marie's too), is the misrepresentation of any foreign/different system as "scary". So my answer was intended to set that record straight.
I *really* think that it is time to switch to our regular, amicable AN programming. ;)
Marianna
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Marianna,
I don't disagree that our system (both old and new), are complex. But, I do disagree that it's only for us to debate. How else will we learn what works and what doesn't in other countries (without the media / government spin) if not talking to people who actually use that system?
I don't think Greg meant to imply that the Candian health care system was "scary", just that we should be talking to people from other countries who do have this type of system (e.g. Canadians) to hear their experiences. He then followed up that very poignant point by interjecting his own opinion that it sounds "scary" (presumably the things that he had seen/read/been told thus far about other systems). At least, that's how I took it. Greg can vouch for himself on that, however. I think it's stories like this that Greg was finding "scary": http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/09/socialized_medicine_is_broken.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/09/socialized_medicine_is_broken.html).
Contrary to popular belief, I think this discussion has remained relatively amicable. The discussion hasn't devolved into name calling, propoganda throwing, or flaming. Sure, it's a heated discussion at times, but that's to be expected while discussing a topic like this. I think it's important that we Americans hear real stories from people who know about the systems they have in place in their own country. So, heated, yes... Amicable, for the most part yes. Needed, most definitely in my opinion.
Brian
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As one who is on day 4 of a massive migraine (seeing the doc tomorrow)... losing my job in 2 wks, going on COBRA that I am not eligible for the COBRA subsidy, cramming all of my doc appts in the next month... and have been through the ER in the UK, where, even as a non-UK resident, I didn't have a hospital bill (my husband's employment tax GBP paid for my ER visit)...... well, I like the word "amicable". works for me! :)
Phyl
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As one who is on day 4 of a massive migraine (seeing the doc tomorrow)... losing my job in 2 wks, going on COBRA that I am not eligible for the COBRA subsidy, cramming all of my doc appts in the next month... and have been through the ER in the UK, where, even as a non-UK resident, I didn't have a hospital bill (my husband's employment tax GBP paid for my ER visit)...... well, I like the word "amicable". works for me! :)
Phyl
You go Phyl! And take care of that noggin'
Liz
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All I have to say after spending 2 hours waiting in the Social Security office today is "LORD HELP US ALL!" It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that "Z" "B" "C" and "T" all sound exactly the same over a loud speaker...that is the letters that preceded numbers to call the next person waiting (everyone got a printout when we signed it) - HELLO? Last time I checked, there were 26 letters in the alphabet to choose from...could they not have used some that had different sounds? Even the people that had all their hearing were struggling!!
K ;D
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Kay, thanks for proving my point about the inefficiencies and inequities of government-run systems. I'm fairly confident that if that were a privately run operation that either A) they'd be out of business because very few people would subject themselves to that kind of non-sense, or B) it would be changed to make it more effective. As you said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure a lot of these things out, but government has NO incentive to actually do it right... just to do it.
Whoever said that the current economic mess was caused only by private companies should look a little closer into Fannie and Freddie as well as the Community Reinvestment Act. Those two things had a LARGE thing to do with current economic woes and are classic examples of how government trying to do anything massive will jack things up three ways to Sunday in my opinion.. :)
Wee! Fun day! :)
Brian
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As one who is on day 4 of a massive migraine (seeing the doc tomorrow)... losing my job in 2 wks, going on COBRA that I am not eligible for the COBRA subsidy, cramming all of my doc appts in the next month... and have been through the ER in the UK, where, even as a non-UK resident, I didn't have a hospital bill (my husband's employment tax GBP paid for my ER visit)...... well, I like the word "amicable". works for me! :)
Phyl
You go Phyl! And take care of that noggin'
Liz
workin' on it Liz... trust me... workin' on it! :)
xo
Phyl
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Phyl, sending along a virtual cool washrag for your forehead .... perhaps a little relief. Perhaps not..... but please be relieved to know that this thread has, in my opinion, been one of the most intelligent, civil, respectful that I've had the pleasure of reading in my short time here. Anything less and I would not have come back to it.
Brian, thanks for expounding on what I wrote back near the top of page 20 .... what you say is correct. Living just outside DC, not a day .... no, not an hour .... goes by without most news sources covering everything about the goings on of this government. Pick any government topic since before the current administration and congress took power .... controversial or not .... it's covered to the nth degree, ad nauseum. On every newscast on the hour and half-hour, we hear the president and the congressional leaders. We hear the pros and cons of every suggestion or proposal put forth, by Obama, congressional leaders, pundents, reporters, etc. The pros on health care reform include why this bill just has to be passed right now, whereas the cons include stories about what this law will lead to, comparing it to systems in other parts of the world. These latter discussions are general in nature, and do not mention specific people in Canada or the UK or elsewhere who has greatly benefited from their particular health care system. I'm very glad that those people have benefitted!
Also in that post back on page 20, I voiced my objection to the process by which this health care bill, as well as other bills, past and proposed, are being pushed thru. This, and the fact that congressional representatives refuse to listen to their constituents, is what many don't like.
I wish all a good night!
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Hi guys,
Phyl, you are not allowed to have those head pains so hopefully it goes quickly.
As for health systems, I don't think anyone has come up with the answer yet. Down under - we have a public system (taxpayer funded) and you can take out private insurance. For the public - coz of the high cost of running hospitals, the service is ordinary. To have an AN op you have a two year wait(unless you are close to death). Elective surgery - forget it - maybe 3-5 years. There is a shortage of beds and it just takes so long to get anything done. having said that, when i had pneumonia a few years back, and popped in to the hospital, the service was fantastic. thats coz i had a breathing problem. Essentially, I have learned that for a public health system to work, it requires bucket loads of cash which results in additional tax. Then the problem of abuse occurs where people will utilise the resources needlessly and then the merry-go-round starts.
Our private insurance is affordable and is not corporate based like in the U.S. I am on a family top cover and that costs me $350 per month. Mind you, we have large out of pocket expenses for surgeons etc. having the private insurance gives you choice of surgeon and hospital plus immediate access to surgery.
My assesment of the U.S system is that it the single biggest issue you have is the legal system. Surgeon and facility costs are high due to malpractice insurance premiums being so high. I understand that anaethatists (excuse spelling) premiums are around $1m per year. How on earth can you have an affordable health system with that scenario. My mother was recently operated on in the U.S and ok, a non u.s citizen but the hospital wouldn't let her in without a $3,000 payment up front. The MRI cost her $6,000 (free or max $200 in Oz) her op and stay for 5 nights cost over $100,000. Unbelievably absurd. Surgeon fees of $70,000 for 5 hours work is rather high don't you think?
Get rid of the ability to sue hospitals or medicos which will reduce fees, put a cap on fees for surgeons and general doctor visits and you'll have an affordable health system. Will never happen though.
Sorry for the rant and rave but just thought I'd paint a different picture for you.
cheers
laz
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losing my job in 2 wks,
:o
Big Gianormous HUG ! Pearly Whites- you do NOT deserve this… nor any other citizen who is disabled :-\ by illness… acoustic neuroma or otherwise.
Huggles.
DHM
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Laz,
You have my vote for President! We'll even waive that American citizen thing for you.
Phyl - get rid of that headache already, will you!
Lori
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thanks all for the wishes... truly! And 4cm..... you are right and my biggest challenge in finding a new job with health bennies... and pre-existing clauses. Should be interesting.....
Day 5 of migraine. Please continue to play nice in the sandbox..... my meds aren't working.... :-\
Phyl
losing my job in 2 wks,
:o
Big Gianormous HUG ! Pearly Whites- you do NOT deserve this… nor any other citizen who is disabled :-\ by illness… acoustic neuroma or otherwise.
Huggles.
DHM
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as I have said my insurance is basically a card that gets me in the door and it is paying at this point very little ... used to have a $20 co-pay for office visits but now we are suppose to pay the whole thing when we make the visit ...I don't always have the whole amount ...at least my doctor likes me and has allowed me to pay $20 per visit and bills the rest ...so at this point we owe him $700 on me and the girls and as I have extra money I pay him some ...usually this would be maybe $50 at most for anything the insurance didn't cover such as labs
yesterday Bo brought home a notice that insurance premiums were going up as of July 1 something that was not suppose to happen til July 1 , 2011 ... and that as of January 1 premiums will no longer be taken out pre-tax but will come out after taxes are ... this means we will be paying more taxes and will in reality see two increases in what our premiums cost us in a 6 month time period ... they said in letter that this in anticipation of changes due to national plan ... and BCBS is not raising their premiums that company pays them ...the company is reducing the part they pay ...then in 2011 we will see the BCBS increase ... I feel the walls crumbling :-\
Hope your head gets back on track Phyl ... hate being re-railed and staying that way for days ...
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Phyl, I hope your killer headache will ease off soon and you will get to the bottom of this.
OK Pooter, I appreciate that exchanging information about what's happening in various countries is a very valuable way to get the facts straight, so I'll play ;)
First of all, Laz explained very well that there are various types of approaches. I will call Canada an extreme example, since services are not available in the private sector at all (except for some provinces). Most of the European countries that I know of (this excludes the UK - I am not sure how the NHS system works), have a two-tier system. There are public and private services and hospitals available. Private services can be bought through insurance (like Laz explained), whereas public are accessible to everyone. This means that if you have, and are willing to pay the money you can purchase insurance for whatever service you want, and escape the waiting lists. If however you don't have the means to do this, you still have access to medical care - no questions asked. It's something like the education system in the States, where there are prestigious private institutions, but also community colleges and public universities so everyone can get a decent education, even if not first class.
The bonus of this is that it keeps costs in check, because if private sector costs rise to unreasonable levels nobody will want to use them anymore. For example, an MRI in Europe costs about 600 Euros (one Euro is about 1.45 US dollars). In Canada at the private clinics in Quebec it costs about $650 Canadian dollars (about parity with the US dollar), a bit more with contrast I believe. The prices I heard on this forum in the States are above $2,000. Obviously someone makes a huge profit out of this.
Now about the information on the website that you quoted, you have to be careful about information that is presented out of context. True, in a publically funded system, which is accountable for tax payers money, there will be a prioritization of services, depending on the need. Example out of my personal experience. When I went to my GP once my face turned numb, he put a priority number 2 in his MRI requisition (1 being: the patient is dying and needs an MRI right away). I got the MRI one month later, which I don't consider a long wait. A few years back I had a sore knee. My GP wanted to check it out, and ordered an MRI, but this was obviously not a high priority, so he put a number 4. It took me 4 months to get the MRI.
Example number two. Our family doctor was concerned that my 3 year old had a slight hoarseness in his voice, barely noticeable. He referred us to an ENT and it took 6 months to see the ENT. But in all my three episodes of hearing loss I got to see the ENT (at the same practice) the next day.
I will agree with Laz, that one of the biggest issues is the soaring costs - I am not sure how this can be combatted as long as health care is for profit. This is not a situation of free market setting the prices. If something at WalMart is very expensive, the consumer can chose not to buy it and the price will go down. But if you get sick, you need the health care services so you cannot do otherwise but "buy" the expensive product.
Marianna
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thanks all for the wishes... truly! And 4cm..... you are right and my biggest challenge in finding a new job with health bennies... and pre-existing clauses. Should be interesting.....
Pearly Whites,
Check your PM box. I have sent you some links of a good corp. that is hiring that offers benefits without the "no pre-existing" clauses. Your good on-line moderator skills, as a volunteer here with the ANA, would be considered a job asset by them...
These positive job prospects may be the headache cure you need. :-*
Signed,
DHM
(AKA also known by Grega apparently as “Plethora†:-\ ;) :D )
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Howdy DHM ..... so nice of you to mention my moniker. But ya caught me be surprise there. In lieu of searching thru 22 pages of this thread, I inserted plethora in the search box, and voila(sp?) .... this thread, started by you 2300 views ago, was mentioned along with one other, started in Feb 2006 by "thecakes".
Since I wasn't alive then, I must have used it herein. ??? As I don't remember ever addressing anyone by the name "Plethora" .... although we have heard worse real names in this area ..... please help me out .... give me a time or post number, if there is such a thing.
Thanks muchly! ;D
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Greg, I think she is referring to this - http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?topic=12150.msg141740#msg141740 - as in short for "plethora of information."
Apparently the search mechanism leaves something to be desired.
Sara
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Gee Sara ..... you are good! Finding missing threads in such a big ball of yarn .... terrific memory !!!
Well, as you and the world can see, no one actually referred to DHM as the "P" word. Who would want to change such a sweet name, whether in initials or spelled out. And so much info at her fingertips (as the phrase was intended) ...... ;D
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Marianna,
Thank you for the insightful information about the Canadian system (as well as a little bit about others).. So, in your explaination of some two-tiered systems, what I hear you saying is that the services are available via taxpayer funded "public" systems and the "cost" is you have to wait a bit longer perhaps (depending on the severity "number" assigned), and also private facilities are still available whereas the "cost" is you have to pay out of pocket for it in return for little to no waiting time. So, what that tells me is a couple of things.. a) if you can afford it, you more than likely would opt for the private services paying out of pocket, but what that means is that you actually pay for that treatment twice (once to the government who provides it whether you use it or not and the other out of pocket for the private facility), and b) one could argue that the public education system in the USA is broken, broke and ineffective, which is why many of us have no confidence that a government run healthcare system would end up in a different place than our public education system.
I can see how it might aid in keeping prices in check to a certain degree. It largely depends on how long the waiting time (availability of services, specialist, etc..) there is. Many people's threshold for waiting for certain things are directly proportional to how much they're willing to spend privately to get it done faster and more efficiently. The prices you quote about MRI costs in the USA are about right, however that's WITHOUT INSURANCE; purely out of pocket. Most Americans have insurance. What insurance companies do (part of it) is they have a negotiated rate with the Medical Facility. So, someone without insurance and pays out of pocket really pays for their "service" and partially towards the cost of the "service" of people who get the "service" but don't pay for it (because they can't or don't want to). The person with insurance however, may be "charged" $1,000 to the insurance company for the same "service" and then it's up to your insurance plan on what portion of that you pay vs the insurance company.. With many HMO plans (like I used to have), my diagnostic MRI didn't cost me anything at the time of the MRI (granted, I still paid my premiums, so it really did "cost" me something but I would have paid that anyhow regardless of the MRI.. Other plans, like the one I have now has a $1,000 annual deductible and then insurance covers 80% of the cost of what's left over. So, the same diagnostic MRI for me under the plan I'm on now (assuming I had met my annual deductible), would have been about $200.
Incidentally, it's not ALL about profit for the prices charged for non-insurance people. As I stated, a portion of that "cost" also pays for the billions of dollars each year of services that are given away for free (either by choice or law). Already in this country, if you go to ANY Emergency Room, they MUST treat you without regard to your ability to pay. What ends up happening (and has to a LARGE extent) is that many people who are here illegally (and hence, don't have insurance) go to the Emergency Room knowing they can't be turned away for regular check ups, for sneezes and coughs, etc... not true "emergencies". That, in part, raises the "cost" paid by everyone else most notably those people without insurance that ARE willing to pay for it.
I pasted that link so that you (and others) could see the story in it's entirety. Not what *I* said, but the full story about what was out there. I, and many other Americans, feel that waiting 1 month for an MRI (for example) is far too long to wait, let alone 4 months. In our current system, I can schedule and have an MRI done in a matter of days. When my AN was diagnosed, I had my MRI done within a week of when my doctor asked me to get one, that was on a WednesdayI believe. By the next day, the doctor had called me on my cell phone and said something was found and to call his nurse on Friday to get a referral to see a specialist. I called Friday and by the following Tuesday, I was in speaking to a Otologyst. Another example recently was when I saw a doctor about a knee problem. He asked me to get Xrays and within a week I had them done. He told me that I needed to see an Orthopedic specialist. Within 10 days of seeing the doctor that told me to get xrays, I was in seeing the specialist. Was it life threatening? No...but, within a system like you described, I would have to wait 1-4 months to get the xrays that the doctor needed me to have done. For many of us, that's entirely too long even for non-emergencies.
I agree with you that costs are a major factor in the Health sector right now.. Things are just too expensive. So, that begs the question (I've been begging a lot of questions lately.. ;) ), how do you control the costs? For many of us, we think it's small, targeted legislation aimed specifically at lowering the cost... For example, tort reform (the amount that you can sue a doctor or hospital) is a MAJOR contributer to the cost of things. Another example, forcing hospitals/doctors to treat non-emergency patients who can but do not pay or who are not here legally and have no intention on paying. There are other needed "changes" to our system, like removing the lifetime cap on coverage (for those insurance plans that have it), doing away with the "pre-existing condition" that allows insurance companies to NOT cover someoone, not allowing the insurance companies to drop someone because of how many claims (or how much), etc.. Some have the potential to affect the costs (either up or down) while others do not.
What many of us object to is ramming this monstrous law into place when it was very plainly against the will of the people of this country. I saw poll numbers in the range of 75% of people who are/were against this law as a means for "fixing" the problems in the current system. Most people do not feel that THIS law is going to do what the politicians say it will. And, many of us object to the way that it was put into law (back room deals, behind closed door meetings, secretive about the actual content of the bill, parlimentary procedures typically used for budgetary only items, etc..). It was absolutely aweful how it was made into law AND against the will of the people they claimed to represent.
Regards,
Brian
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Wow, I thought this died a while back and just checking in I see it started up again. Glad for that too as censoring speech in America, last I checked, is not a good thing. Isn't hijacking a crime?
There are many, many good talking points here debating each countries form of health care. I said it earlier before what was crammed down our throats is not about health care, but is about $$'s and power! We do not need to debate about government run anything as the facts stand for themselves, they don't run anything well and this United States is being run into the ground (perhaps their plan?). If this is plan, then those in other countries should sit up a take notice.
If those in the United States wants what Canada, Australia, Europe, or Asia has then move there to enjoy what they have and leave us to what we want--a country with limited government that abides by our Constitution. I dare anyone to move to another country and try to change them. You'll be branded the 'pushy' American, you'll be accused of trying to transform their country into America. So, why on earth should we not be up in arms over those trying to transform what was originally intended with the implementing of the Constitution of These United States? Seriously! If you don't like the idea of a 'free' society then move out. You can do this AND take all of your money, whereas some countries, you know the ones that aren't free, will not allow you to take all of your money. If our Constitution is not good enough, don't try to change it, move to where your needs and desires are met.
I do hope Texas has room for me and my dog!
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Did I miss something - are you moving to Texas?
K ???
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Omaschwannoma for President 2012! Come on over to Texas, we have plenty of room.. Just swing by and pick up LADavid on the way because he was considering a move here also.. ;)
I agree that the "healthcare" bill was not about healthcare at all but more about power and money ultimately.
Regards,
Brian
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Interesting discussion.
I lived in New Zealand for a number of years and I actually think their system has a lot of merit. They are similar to Australia with a public and private health care but with an important twist. They do have legislation that prevents suing medicos. They did away with lump sum payouts for major injuries etc and have a weekly payment process instead. It keeps costs down significantly but the side effect is that because salaries are reasonable, doctors don't earn the $10-$50m per year that U.S doctors (surgeons) earn and attracting the bet doctors is difficult other than for the relaxed life style.
In essence, i think the U.S system is far too capitalist (even though i am one) and we don't have to look past Phyl - unfortunately. You lose your job through no fault of your own and your whole medical coverage position changes. medical coverage should not be empoyer based. that in itself, lowers competition and the need to drive costs down. If the health funds decided to set a realistic payment for surgeons then you'll find some surgeons will lower their fees to get the business - simple economics.
I still reckon - get rid of the right to sue and you will have a significantly cheaper and affordablle model.
laz
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Laz,
True, if you get (or drastically reduce) people's ability to sue for absurd amounts of money, then you'll automatically reduce the overall cost. Likewise, if you open it up so that Insurance Companies can sell products across state lines, you INCREASE the competition which will lower the cost. One (or two) simple bills could accomplish that without them being 1000+ pages long and creating a mess of new buracracy, in my opinion.
Personally, I think you can have your cake and eat it too. Meaning, I think you can reduce the costs AND have a "for profit" system. It's because of that profit motive that most of the new innovations in techniques, new drugs and a host of other things are created in the USA. If there's no profit in it, then where's the motivation for anyone to spend the millions/billions of dollars necessary to bring a new procedure, a new drug, a new device, a new ANYthing if there aren't any hopes of recovering that cost? My answer is there is none. Innovation and R&D will suffer across the world if you take out the profit motivation.
True, by default in an employer-based insurance system, competition is stiffled. IF, however, employers could shop for insurance to providers outside of their own state (which, right now they aren't allowed to by law), THEN competition rises and the employees benefit from the lower premiums, better coverage, etc.. Right now, there are basic monopolies in each state with only a handful of major players in the insurance game for a given state. Employer-based is fine, I think, but open it up for more intra-state competition.
All of the things that I've been talking about would only require small, targeted legislation to accomplish without the need to have a tax-funded, public system. To me, they're common-sense changes to our healthcare system as it is...err.. was that would dramatically reduce premiums for insurance and costs of medical-related services, devices, etc..
Brian
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Isn't hijacking a crime?
depends on which forum and if the Moderator whips come out! ;D
BTW, working on a new prescription of Imitrex 100mg... day 6 of migraine.
Pooter, your comment of "...Personally, I think you can have your cake and eat it too. Meaning, I think you can reduce the costs AND have a "for profit" system. ".....these are the details I want to see..... Although Massachusetts has much (but not all) of this in place already, this am's news is now noting that region's largest healthcare org (Partners Healthcare -- they handle many of the major hospitals here, including Mass General Hosp, which we know many AN'ers have their AN surgeries at MGH/MEEI) is now being federally and state investigated for (I hope I get this right....) "anti-trust" and raising rates... and they have responded by noting their "competition" in a major medical market (link to this morning's news: http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2010/04/29/justice_department_launches_antitrust_review_of_partners_healthcare/) ... thus, shooting for the "for profit" at the expense of the insurance industries and me.......
*sits back with ice pack, Rx, diet cinnamon rice cakes .......*
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Phyl~
Maybe some OREO's would kick that headache instead of those DIET RICE CAKES! Hello taste over cardboard! JK!
K ::)
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K -
I was thinking the same thing! Diet rice cakes would give me a headache too! Phyl, ditch those and get yourself some dark chocolate!
Lori
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Phyll,
I hope the imitrex works, and you don't have to pay a penny for it.
I'm so sorry to hear about your work and headaches, and ah it just sucks, girl.
I can't believe you are even on this post with your migraine!
Feel better soon, plz,
Maureen
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Incidentally, it's not ALL about profit for the prices charged for non-insurance people. As I stated, a portion of that "cost" also pays for the billions of dollars each year of services that are given away for free (either by choice or law). Already in this country, if you go to ANY Emergency Room, they MUST treat you without regard to your ability to pay. What ends up happening (and has to a LARGE extent) is that many people who are here illegally (and hence, don't have insurance) go to the Emergency Room knowing they can't be turned away for regular check ups, for sneezes and coughs, etc... not true "emergencies". That, in part, raises the "cost" paid by everyone else most notably those people without insurance that ARE willing to pay for it.
Well said Brian. This is what our higher premiums are all about! To solve this problem is not to 'throw the baby out with the bath water' as we've done here. Rather, we need to 'cut the cancer out entirely' by opening the borders for insurance companies to compete and next, eliminating the illegals--kudos to Arizona Gov she rocks! She's got a spine. She's got my vote. Hope this spreads to my state--but alas our Gov is switching parties. Those that are FOR amnesty is a slap in the face to friends I know spending oodles of $$ and time to become a citizen LEGALLY! That's a slap in the face of my relatives too! By the way, I don't like slapping of any sort, I'm not one for the whipping post either, I'm a ***** cat when it comes to pain, so Phyl, keep that whip away from me--I'm not hijaker here.
We've been a 'door mat' for too long. For too long in my state I've heard legal and illegal's tell me where they are from and say to me "I love my country." So, you love your country but not enough to live there and make a living? In essence they are saying they don't love MY country, and yet MY country has open arms whereas, their countries do not. I do not visit their country in hopes of changing their national language or laws. Why do they want to do this here? Go home to your beloved country please. Come on back when you've done this LEGALLY! We are a forgiving people, we are a loving nation, we are THE most generous people--don't let them tell you differently.
My grandparents came here to get away from the oppressive governments of Germany and Italy legally, learned the language, and loved their new country! Why?, because it offered them HOPE! They thrived, had children, didn't live in fear. My father fought and came home a wounded warrior so WE didn't have to live under Japanese or German rule. America and her Constitution was worth fighting for and I hope more people still believe this. We are losing much and as I stated earlier government run anything never thrives--our government now OWNS 51% of private enterprise! This means 51% of our economy is going the tubes! Will we survive this?
Personally, I think you can have your cake and eat it too. Meaning, I think you can reduce the costs AND have a "for profit" system. It's because of that profit motive that most of the new innovations in techniques, new drugs and a host of other things are created in the USA. If there's no profit in it, then where's the motivation for anyone to spend the millions/billions of dollars necessary to bring a new procedure, a new drug, a new device, a new ANYthing if there aren't any hopes of recovering that cost? My answer is there is none. Innovation and R&D will suffer across the world if you take out the profit motivation.
Again Brian, well said. Our president already thinks those that are making an honest living, and employing people to do the same, should now consider making less? WHAT? Motivation creates ideas which create new possibilities that open doors. Suppression of motivation creates the opposite, apathy. No motivation equals no creation and no wealth to spread around. Our wealth is moving out, I don't blame them. Why should they stay to carry the weight of those that would rather lay around, complain about our language, laws, and their lack of 'stuff'? When they are done wiping their feet on us, realizing how much filth is left behind, seeing the empty 'bread basket', they too will move on as they won't have it in them to 'clean up' after themselves.
My mission now is to educate and motivate people to the polls this November and 2012 where there will be much house cleaning we will have to do to right the wrong. This brain tumor doesn't compare to the problem that lay ahead for me and anyone else that wants to join me to get back to a government OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE! And speaking of brain tumor, isn't that great that our motivated surgeons came up with better techniques in surgery and another way to treat OUR type of brain tumor! AMAZING! Probably why more people come here than go there for treatment or rather used to.
.....now where's my marker and poster I'm off to the Tea Party before I put a 'for sale' sign in my front yard. Thinking about straddling state lines of Arizona and Texas. States with a spine and no fear to do the right thing. Real leaders!
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There is a lot of research and development that goes on in the medical sciences all over the word folks. It isn't limited the good old United States of America. What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?
Laz, you made some very valid points.
Anne Marie
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;D
Oh that darn caramel popcorn is stuck to my dental crowns again. I am rathah fatigued in this mid-day. Hmm should I have a cup-of-cofffffee or a spoT of tea? :-\ I AM in a ratha social mood just now. Hmmm should I go to a Coffee house or Tea Party? :-X
Pearly Whites ,LUV :-*, can you please pass me a couple lumps of shuga? I just caunt seem to make a propa cup-ah-tea these days… Perhaps a caramel latte might do best to wash down the sticky wicky popcorn. Maybe Grega is jolly ole right… just pass me the entire bag of caramels…. Hmm…mmmm..munch munch
Hmmm is there any dAHncing I wonder ...at these coffee houses and tea parties- here in AmericaHHH?
Oh looky I have a new invention in AmericaHHH… caramels melted in a spot of tea. It is quite delightfFUL. MMMM…Would you like to try some Stevie? OH and Stevie do you have time to knit me a new tea cozy… mine is getting so raggedy and the tea gets tepid.
Scotty daarling? Tea or CoffFFee?
Hmmm…Do you think Sara might like caramel tea too? Should I send her some?
Ta Ta for now darlings. Back to what was it???? Oh yes yes of COURSE…. The bill…. NO NO NO not for the coffee and tea bevies, my pet, the HEALTH bill…
Carry on then…. ;)
Daisy Head Mazie ;D
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There is a lot of research and development that goes on in the medical sciences all over the word folks. It isn't limited the good old United States of America. What ever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?
Laz, you made some very valid points.
Anne Marie
By the way, I never said was NO R&D in countries outside of the USA, however you must agree that up until now most of the major advances in medical technology or treatment techniques or advancement of new drugs have been developed in the USA. Why? Partially, in my opinion, to the profit motivation factor. A new drug, new technology or a new anything stands to MORE than pay for itself in the long run by being able to sell it across the globe. Drug companies know this. Medical device manufacturers know this. Heck, doctors know this. That's why billions of dollars are spent annually to create the next "big" thing. You can't tell me that if a drug company stands to make very listtle or no money at all for a new drug, they will invest the time and money to create the next big drug, for example?
I still maintain that without that motivating factor, the desire for making strides in R&D into new technology, techniques and drugs will be crushed. Not only does the USA stand to lose lots by that fact, so does the rest of the world who benefits from that R&D work done in the USA.
Countries who develop new technology and drugs do so knowing one of their biggest markets for being able to sell it (and make a profit) is in the USA. If the healthcare system in this country moves towards being a not-for-profit commodity, then even the R&D in those countries will diminish knowing they won't be able to make a decent enough profit in one of the biggest markets (USA).
Whatever happened to the rule of law?
Brian
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This is an interesting discussion.
Investment is the cornerstone to any country's success. Under our previous government which was booted out by a giovernment full of spin, introduced 150% R&D write offs through tax. that meant if you spent $100 on R&D, you could claim $150 on your tax return. Obviously pitched at the big boys but up to the GFC under our previous government, Oz had one of the strongest economies in the world. Unemployment at around 5% and NO public debt. Investment was soaring and everything was going well. Unfortunately after 2 years in office, they were outdone by political complacency and the spin of our now PM - Kevin Rudd. Not getting into a political comment here but there is no doubt at all that Investment into R&D in the private sector where there is reward for risk is a must and a recipe for success.
That translates into the health system as well. Many Drug companies make absurd profits but its through their R&D that we get new treatments and they get profits. Not sure I'd want to get rid of that process at all. As for insurance companies, its a moot point as to whether they should be profitable or not. If not - you certainly get complacency and no incentive to be daring at all.
It's a toughie.
Laz
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When we get nervous, we eat!! And there is a lot in the world to be nervous about now.
Cookies, anyone?. Making Vanishing Oatmeal Cookies, but with dried cherries.
Sue in Vancouver, USA
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I really had to add to this thread. I got a survey from the party I was affiliated with for many years, before they got so radical. Maybe both sides were always radical, but because I wanted to stray from my father's fold, I went in the opposite direction. I can now honestly define myself as being a "moderate". Anyway, about this survey....my family is pretty sure the Secret Service is going to show up on my doorstep. They asked the questions and I answered them honestly. I did add that I hoped that the President is impeached for treason before he gets voted out of office. I also asked for the tenth time to be taken off this party's mailing list >:( and I have changed my voter registration. I am a very frustrated small business owner and most of all American......I am very happy that I live in Texas though.
I made lemon bars!
Just my humble opinion!
Brenda
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Brenda Lu,
I have been in the middle of this... and see both side. I am now becoming VERY concerned that Americans will loose freedoms. Freedoms I did not have growing up in Canada.
Today I exercised the freedom of speech in hopes to assist a fellow patent.
http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?topic=12499.msg146699#msg146699
She is a frightened newbie who needs diagnoses and not fear to speak up and ask for a MRI... or fear of the unknown :-\ .
DHM
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Amen, DHM....love that. I grew up near the Canadian border and have many , many friends who are from there or live there. I have seen both sides of the coin. I am so thankful I live in these GREAT United States of America and I will vote every election, voice my concerns, march against the "establishment" and do everything in my power to see that my grand children will always have the freedoms I have enjoyed in this great country. It isn't perfect, but it is the best in the world. If it wasn't, so many people wouldn't be coming here for treatment and trying to live here...legally or illegally.
The new health care bill scares the HECK out of me, both as citizen and as a small business owner. My doctor and I have discussed at great length how this will impact the care I receive for MS, mental health, and all of the AN related junk.....................I am scared, but I will not give in without the biggest fight of my life.
I read the thread and your encouragement of Michelle and just want to say thank you!
Brendalu
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I am almost tired of fighting ... I should not have to fight to see a doctor when I am a citizen , pay my taxes . pay for insurance etc etc etc ... and I can't get an MRI for spying on the inner workings of my head because I can't pay for them and my insurance doesn't think they are a necessity ... I am now taking neurontin that takes edge off headaches but have a return of pain in my hips down to my toes from fibromyalgia that the lyrica I was on took care of , but now can't afford .... I am thankful I was under different insurance at time of surgery ...
and I hate seeing this family of Mexicans ( now legal ) come in the doctors office with their sick kids (and I want the kids 5 in all from toddlers to maybe 6 to have healthcare ) plop down the Tenn Care card and get free treatment and with interpreter in tow say no we haven't found work yet ... they are in designer cloths , jewelry dripping off them and drive a Cadillac Escalade ...no one just gave all that to them …and we see them in Walmart with carts full and the food stamp debit card in hand …
I know the man works at a sod farm managing it and makes good money ... he is paid under the table and owner of farm doesn't take out anything on him ...insurance , taxes , SS ,, blah blah blah ... now that the man and his family are legal they should pay taxes and pay for treatment ... heck they should have been paying all along ... I hope the owner who is under investigation for tax issues gets tossed in the clink and loses his farm … he has done this thing for yeas and has been suspected in bringing illegals to the states … he gets rich while helping to make it worse for the rest of us ….my doctor is not going to let a child go untreated and that is fine with me ... but told the parents he is not taking on new adult patients and they would have to go somewhere else and I applaud him for that small stand he has taken ...
we were informed that we may be able to get out of the contract with BCBS of TN that was locked in for 5 years (ends July 2012 ) and may get new insurance ...praying we do and it is better ... BCBS informed us after health bill came out that they could keep me on pre-existing status until 2014 ... and this was suppose to be a seamless transition and I was told that I would be able to continue treatments as usual …
Most of my woes are due to the insurance company and the way they are picking through the health bill and finding ways to create loopholes and pay for as little as possible … last year we paid $ 4200 in premiums , with the December 2008 MRI to pay for , we paid out another $5842 in treatment (most of that the one MRI ) , $1200 in deductibles and $1000 in prescriptions …would have been a lot more in drugs if my doctor had not been giving me sample bottles of Lyrica … BCBS paid $1200 towards treatments and $167 on prescriptions … discounts for using in network doctors were $1265 … they only started paying for doctors visits in November or December when our $4800 deductible was met and were not paying the promised 80% because out $2400 per person out of pocket had yet to be met … a quarter of our income to not get needed treatment …it basically gets you in the door in case of emergency …if not for the fear of some catastrophic illness coming up I would drop insurance and sock back the money we pay them to use to pay for doctor appointments , food , school supplies , gas etc
I think this has more to do with anger and the whole insurance mess and the way they twist things by their interpretation of the bill than the bill itself …
I have some home made yeast bread and cinnamon rolls … no chocolate but good all the same …take one …take a few … I will just eat them if the stay here …the cinnamon rolls are good warm with cold milk
Disgruntled in Tennessee
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Soundy ~
Although its disheartening to read about your insurance/medical care woes, I'm glad you posted because I think your comments reflect the general attitude of a great many Americans these days, when it comes to health care. Often, its not the actual treatment that is problematic (although sometimes it is) but the means of paying for health care, which was never 'cheap' but has grown almost prohibitively expensive - without insurance. Just like your family, most Americans pay good money for their health care insurance and are sometimes given runarounds and have obstacles put in their path to wellness by insurance company games that have the objective of not paying a bill that the insurer should be liable for. I'm certain that many will join me in nodding our heads and muttering: "been there, done that". This was the political rationale for the new health care bill - typically given a ridiculously tongue-twisting name no one knows or remembers: 'The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act' -' that was signed into law by the president, back in late March. The 'reform' that will cost our country (taxpayers) billions.
Soundy, your anger over seeing illegal aliens apparently living the good life on the taxpayers back and receiving benefits Americans born and raised here don't receive, is wholly justified. So is your disgust with the local sod farmer bringing in illegal immigrants to work for peanuts, fattening the farmer's wallet and, again, burdening the taxpayers while taking work away from Americans. I hope he is caught and severely punished. If these greedy employers would stop hiring illegals, a big chunk of the illegal immigration population would disappear as the financial incentive for coming over the (porous) border would be gone. That states and cities hand out benefits to illegal immigrants paid for by hard-working taxpayer's money is outrageous, in my opinion. Another inducement to those living in squalid countries (often run by dictators or just run ineffectively) to sneak across the border and into the U.S. We simply cannot absorb every poor person in the world. This is a long-running problem that neither political party ever seems eager to address, except with empty words and meaningless gestures. I think most Americans are sick of it. The national approval for the new Arizona law that only slightly addresses the illegal alien problem is close to 60%. The majority of Americans get it, even if some politicians and media types that have lied about the law, don't.
Your natural indignation toward those here illegally and receiving what seems like special treatment is what drives those who form 'alternative' political entities and protest against the current administration/congressional schemes, such as 'amnesty' for illegal aliens (usually benignly termed 'comprehensive immigration reform') and the recently enacted health care law I've referenced earlier. Prior to the passage of the health care law (sometimes referred to as 'ObamaCare') polls showed around 85% of Americans had health care insurance and were satisfied with it. Now, we'll have socialized health care that allegedly insures 100% of the population but at a tremendous cost (in taxes) and with a definite loss of freedom of choice in our health care. Too late, now. As has been said before: if you don't like the way (private) insurance companies handle your claims, wait until you have an unaccountable government bureaucracy doing it with inflexible rules and absolutely no appeals or alternatives.
I hate to read about anyone having trouble with their insurance company because, like you, we pay a lot for the coverage and AN patients often have ongoing needs that are simply unaffordable for most of us, if not covered by our insurance. However, I fear we'll be reading a lot more medical 'horror stories' about folks not being able to receive needed treatment or medications once the new national health care law fully kicks in by 2014. Of course, I'm not psychic and cannot accurately predict the future (or I'd play Lotto) but I cannot see how this new law, which, no matter how you spin it, is 'socialized medicine', can somehow be better than the private sector health insurance system we have now. Granted, that system needs reforms, but I believe congress used easily-solvable problems in the private health insurance system to justify pushing the new health care law past the wishes of a majority of Americans in order to give the government control of a very crucial part of our economy - and our lives. Since most anything government does ends up a mess and wildly expensive, I'm not optimistic that simply changing from privately-run health care insurance to government-run health care insurance will be a huge improvement. In fact, I think it'll be a lot worse. As a 'senior citizen', I expect that my future, should I encounter serious illness in the next decade or so, is now greatly compromised. With 3 billion people on one health care system and money and medical personnel being finite, medical resources will definitely have to be 'prioritized' (rationed) and guess who is most expendable? That alone is a problem for me, for obvious reasons. However, again, I may be mistaken. I hope so. I also hope that your health issues and your current insurance problems can be resolved, soon.
Jim
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I hope the sod farmer does lose his farm and home and his wife runs off with the UPS man ( or someone ) ... he has been doing this for years , been through court and paid fines ... but those were on immigration of illegal aliens charges ...not much happened ... they rounded up his worked took them to Mexico and with in a month most were back ... and he got off with some fines but not big enough to hurt ...now with IRS investigating him I hope they nail him to the wall
what is even worse in ways than the illegals that use the system are the American citizens that do so ...I know of 4 or 5 cases within a few miles of me of this
there is a family with 5 kids at school that are on Tenn Care and food stamps and proud of it ... they are not married and have the kids ranging from a on going into 1st grade next year to one going into 8th ... they get free lunch and supplies paid for ... he makes good money and they live in a nice house ... but since they are not married they can qualify for all this help because technically all the income she has is child support which he pays into an account in her name ... in court papers to establish paternity and support he was not employed at the time and it was not required he pay for insurance ... that was when they had 2 kids ... over the years as kids were born support was increased by the DA office but it was never ran back through courts so he still doesn't pay for insurance ... and since she has legal custody of the kids she can apply and receive benefits ...
and the kids are likely to grow up and do the same ... only good thing here is that once your youngest child reaches first grade and is in school all day you are required to go to work and her stamps will go down ... or she may just have another baby so she can milk the system further ...
They brag about it and human services know they live together but loopholes allow it … I think they are worse than people here illegally milking the system …
But then when looking for help I was told that I could get catastrophic coverage through Tenn Care if I divorced Bo and he didn’t carry insurance on me …I could also get food stamps … so the government encourages this sort of thing both on state level with the Tenn Care health coverage and federal government with te food stamp program … this needs to be fixed … close the loopholes
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What is even worse in ways than the illegals that use the system are the American citizens that do so ...
But then when looking for help I was told that I could get catastrophic coverage through Tenn Care if I divorced Bo and he didn’t carry insurance on me …I could also get food stamps … so the government encourages this sort of thing both on state level with the Tenn Care health coverage and federal government with the food stamp program … this needs to be fixed … close the loopholes.
Soundy ~
Once again, your latest post motivates me to not only agree with you but expand on your comments. Of course no one wants innocent children to go hungry because their irresponsible parents - often unmarried - won't provide for them. However, these programs are far too lenient and fail to consider the realities of co-habitation that allow unmarried 'couples' with minor children to 'game the system'. This kind of government meddling in the lives of it's citizens (via programs paid for by taxpayers) is what often leads to a 'welfare mentality' that by it's own rules condones immoral behavior and rewards those who are willing to lie to receive taxpayer-financed 'benefits'. This is destructive to our moral fabric and, as you noted, can produce children that will learn to accept the lying and immoral behavior as 'normal' and perpetuate the practice into future generations.
I believe this sad state of affairs is what can occur when we are induced by those in positions of authority to throw aside traditional concepts of morality often summed up in the self-serving cry often heard these days..."you can't judge me!". Perhaps not, but I don't have to pay (via taxes) for your 'lifestyle', either. We've allowed the media and politicians to convince us to accept the idea that an unmarried couple with children is just a 'lifestyle choice' and convince us that we 'owe' some of these people 'benefits' because they have young children. The 'redistribution of wealth' (via taxes) is a pernicious political scheme that is doing much harm to both the taxed (you) and the recipients (your mooching neighbors). The American family is breaking down, devastated by the loss of a moral compass and a sense of shame in society - and when one states an objection, we're told by the media and many politicians that we are being 'judgmental' and want to starve innocent children. It's all a palpable lie but it tends to silence critics and so, we pay and pay more taxes while some continue to game the system and laugh at us while doing so, and the politicians allow this to go on. Only citizen activism can even begin to reverse this trend - and it may finally be coming in the November election, as average Americans are taxed to the max and, as you are, fed up with politicians allowing both legal residents as well as millions of illegal aliens to take our hard-earned (tax) money and call it 'compassion'. It isn't....and never was. It's a public policy based on a badly misguided premise that some advocates of this re-distribution of our collective means pretend is taken from the biblical admonitions to help the poor. However, this isn't a religious issue, but a political one and those who 'game the system' are stealing, plain and simple.
We need to elect people who will finally give the working American a break and, as you asked, "close the loopholes". That won't happen if we keep re-electing the same kinds of politicians that view the taxpayer as a bottomless well of money they can distribute to 'the poor' (and feel beneficent) while ignoring the blatant abuses inherent in these redistribution policies that end up abusing the long-ignored taxpayer. This has to stop but complaining won't do that. Elections have consequences. We still live in a democracy and we, as voters, can make a difference, but we have to want to. That means actually knowing who we're voting for and what they stand for. That takes some time and effort but its crucial to being an informed voter. I don't vote based simply on party or what the candidate says, but what he's done up until now. We'll never change the system until we change the people in charge of it, and that, like it or not, is politicians. However, in our democratic republic, we the people are in charge of the politicians. They answer to us. Many politicians seem to have forgotten that. Mostly because we, the voters, have allowed them to ignore us with guilt trips and flowery speeches about helping the poor, etc. It's time to take a cold, hard look at much of what we do for people in this country. I'm not advocating dismantling the 'social services' systems or ignoring real need, but simply making the people running these programs responsive to the taxpayers and, again, 'closing the loopholes'. I think its about time.
Jim
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Dear Mr. Jim Scott,
You should run for office! You so eloquently stated what many of us feel! I totally agree with you and wish that this message could be circled around to everyone who can vote! We must take back our nation before it is totally destroyed! Yes, we can do this but we do need to clean house! We need to start fresh with elected officials that truly represent the people and not their own interests! We have had enough! Please Jim, let's shout this on the roof tops and get back to what this country was founded on!
She climbs down from her soap box carefully, and puts the challenge out there!
Jackie in Oregon :-\
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Dear Mr. Jim Scott,
You should run for office!
He's got my vote ;D
Jan
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I agree that Jim would be great in office.............should we start the fund raising now?
Brenda
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I agree that Jim would be great in office.............should we start the fund raising now?
Yes, definitely. Just make your checks payable to Jan Benjamin ;D
Have to pay for a recent car repair :(
Jan