Author Topic: the new health bill?  (Read 117286 times)

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7449
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2010, 05:18:54 am »
*sits back with new bowl of 94% fat free popcorn, new package of double stuff Oreo's and my fave beverage.... continues to watch the sparks fly.....*
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Brendalu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
  • Smile..it makes everyone wonder what you are up to
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2010, 05:29:13 am »
Pooter,

It might be a Texas thing, but I agree with so much of what you have said. Keep'em coming!
Brenda
Brenda Oberholtzer
AN surgery 7/28/05
Peyman Pakzaban, NS
Chester Strunk, ENT

nteeman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
  • Back to Mono
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2010, 06:53:58 am »
Pooter,

While I doubt I could ever change your opinion, at the same time I doubt you can ever change mine. That said, I must admit that at one time my political belief was 'the government that governs least, governs best.'  In a perfect world that would be true. What life has taught me, though, is that in the real world it just does not work. That said, in a perfect world we would not need government at all!

While much of what you say is absolutely true, it is only half the story.

First, insurance mandates -- by your statements it is OK if the mandate is from the State but not OK if it is from the Fed. Come on, you are either OK with mandates or against them. It doesn't matter at the end of the day who is forcing you to do something by a mandate, they are still forcing you. The truth is we are used to car insurance mandates and health insurance mandate is new. I have health insurance and plan to keep it so I am not put off by this.  I know plenty of people who should have health insurance, can afford it, yet don't buy it.  I could say it is their loss but it really affects everyone's cost as the insured pool is smaller because of this.

Your list of Federal government services show them as money losers. I do agree that there is waste and they could be run better and more efficiently. But also remember they are government services and at best should beak even. In a perfect world they would. But we do not live in a perfect world, we live in the real world. In the real world these services are needed.  I can see how Social Security and Medicare help people. I can't imagine what most of our senior population would do without them. Some can't even survive well with them, imagine if they didn't even have that! Yes, in a perfect world they would all be in the black.

So I look at your list of government services that are all 'Broke' and wonder are they worth it?  My car comes to mind. It cost me a lot of money to purchase. It costs me money to run, insure and maintain. I do not gain any income from having a car. It's only function to me is convenience and pleasure. Yet, I value that convenience and pleasure. It is worth it to me. I think the same way about the services listed. I enjoy getting my mail delivered to me at home and the office. I do enjoy seeing my elderly mothers expenses helped by Social Security and Medicare.  I do look forward to retiring someday and hope to survive on what is left of the savings investments over the years, BUT I am thankful that regardless of how my financial planning succeeded or failed I will at least be able to receive my Social Security,

While I understand with your point of view and I agree government IS a necessary evil, I also believe healthcare reform is very much needed in this country. That said I am also aware that the bill that just passed leaves a lot to be desired by all but it is a beginning and, in my opinion better than nothing.

I have no love for either political party and do wish we had better alternatives. I don't believe that our Representatives are doing what's best for us, but are doing what they believe will keep them elected. I don't believe that a smaller government that does less is the answer. I think a more responsible government would do better.

Sincerely,
Neal
Diagnosed 12/16/2008
AN 2.4 X 2.0 X 1.6 CM
surgery performed on 1/27/2009 Mt. Sinai Hospital, NYC
Dr.Bederson & Dr. Smouha
9:30am thru 5:50pm
http://www.facebook.com/neal.teeman

leapyrtwins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10826
  • I am a success story!
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2010, 07:01:14 am »
Thanks for the popcorn, Phyl.

BTW, VERY nice new profile picture.  You look fabulous  ;D

Thought we should take a short break from the subject at hand.

Okay, folks, carry on  ;D

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

lori67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3113
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2010, 08:45:11 am »
Just as an interesting note - New Hampshire does not require you to purchase auto insurance in order to operate a vehicle registered there.  "Live free or Die".

Ok.  Carry on.  Just thought that was an interesting bit of trivia.  And if you're ever on Jeopardy!, it might come in handy.   ;D

Lori
Right 3cm AN diagnosed 1/2007.  Translab resection 2/20/07 by Dr. David Kaylie and Dr. Karl Hampf at Baptist Hospital in Nashville.  R side deafness, facial nerve paralysis.  Tarsorraphy and tear duct cauterization 5/2007.  BAHA implant 11/8/07. 7-12 nerve jump 9/26/08.

nteeman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
  • Back to Mono
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2010, 08:57:06 am »
Just as an interesting note - New Hampshire does not require you to purchase auto insurance in order to operate a vehicle registered there.  "Live free or Die".

Ok.  Carry on.  Just thought that was an interesting bit of trivia.  And if you're ever on Jeopardy!, it might come in handy.   ;D

Lori

My dad used to live in a state that did not require auto insurance. He had to buy an additional rider to his policy just in case he had an accident with an uninsured vehicle.

With uninsured motorists on the road the motto should read 'live free AND die.'

Neal
Diagnosed 12/16/2008
AN 2.4 X 2.0 X 1.6 CM
surgery performed on 1/27/2009 Mt. Sinai Hospital, NYC
Dr.Bederson & Dr. Smouha
9:30am thru 5:50pm
http://www.facebook.com/neal.teeman

sgerrard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2010, 09:50:00 am »
I'm not asking they turn a profit, but at least break even. Is that too much to ask? 

At 45 cents a letter, yes it is too much to ask. If you think it should be doable, start a business delivering first class mail anywhere in the US for 45 cents a letter, and show us how it can be done.

The USPS was established because it was recognized that we need an official way to communicate legal notices, business invoices, etc., to make commerce work. It is subsidized by the US government, because it is a lousy business model, and no private business would touch it.

If you want them to break even, then let them raise the rate to $2.00 per letter, or something, which is probably about how much it really costs. I'm sure it would be a popular move. ;)

Steve
8 mm left AN June 2007,  CK at Stanford Sept 2007.
Hearing lasted a while, but left side is deaf now.
Right side is weak too. Life is quiet.

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2010, 10:29:23 am »
Neal,

You're missing the point.  I never said I agreed or disagreed with insurance mandates from the state.  In general, that's a good thing.  But, regional requirements for regional people.  I can directly affect that requirements if done at the state level.  I can't at the federal level.  Extreme example.  Let's say that the federal government does have the power to issue mandates that we all buy a certain product or service regardless of personal need.  They could, in their infinite wisdom, mandate that I purchase a cow.  Every man, woman and child must own a cow.  This will, in their mind, help provide milk for the family to drink, meat if they end up needing food (but, they'll have to buy another cow), etc... for whatever reason, they mandate that there be a cow for every man, woman and child in this country.  For some, that would be fine.. They like cows.. they like milk... they even like the comfort of knowing that if needed they could get meat.  But, for others, they hate milk (or lactose intollerant) or are vegetarians and have no use for the meat protection.  Let alone they haven't the space to keep the cow.  And, regionally, that makes more sense to some over others..  But, IF the fed were given unlimited authority to mandate the purchase of a certain good or service, then we'd have a lot of mandates from them that most of us don't need or want.  With no real control to stop them.  At least on a state level, any "mandate" would be voted on directly by the people before it was required.  From the federal government, not so much.  THAT's why  they weren't given that constitutional power.

Perfect world?  I'm not asking that we live in a perfect world.  My point is that these services by and large are "worth it".  They provide valuable services to most of us at one time or another.  However, we shouldn't reward inadequate service, waste, fraud and utter mismanagement by throwing more money at the problems they have.  We're teaching them that no matter how bad they are at running that service, we'll give them even more money to "make it right".  They have NO incentive at all to do things right and more efficient... If it's not right or inefficient or whatever we'll just give them more money to balance their books.   Where I guess we differ is that in my "perfect world" they would turn a profit and reduce their budget the next year (because they found a better way to do things, etc..) not break even.  In my "perfect world" breaking even would be on the low end of "perfect".  I realize that we don't live in a perfect world, however I don't think it's earth shattering that we expect these "services" strive to break even.

Better than nothing?  So, higher premiums, higher taxes, and the creation of even more of a shortage of providers is better than nothing?  Wow.  We have differing opinions on "better than nothing".  I agree the current system is broken in some areas.  But, THIS bill doesn't fix those problems.

About you getting social security when you're older.  Don't bet on it.  It likely will be out of money then.  Don't rely on social security being there when you need it because it may not be.

We agree on one thing...  I have little confidence that the current flock of people in Washington (from the White House to Congress and down) are doing what is best for Americans, they're doing what gives them the best chance at getting elected again.  Regardless of party.  I believe that a more responsible government would be better, however in my opinion a smaller AND more responsible government would be even better than that.

Let's go here..  You tell me what you like about the bill..  How does this bill solve the problems that we face with the current system?  Don't tell me what the problems are with the current system, just how this bill solves those problems.  We agree the current system is flawed in some key ways, however I'd like to hear from you how THIS bill solves those problems.

Regards,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

nteeman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
  • Back to Mono
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2010, 11:06:25 am »
Well, for one thing insurance companies will not be able deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

I do like the idea of everybody owning a cow, though.  I think I'll write my representitives and ask for another mandate.

Social Security? Yeah I'll bet on it.

Time will tell,

Cheers,
Neal

Diagnosed 12/16/2008
AN 2.4 X 2.0 X 1.6 CM
surgery performed on 1/27/2009 Mt. Sinai Hospital, NYC
Dr.Bederson & Dr. Smouha
9:30am thru 5:50pm
http://www.facebook.com/neal.teeman

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #69 on: March 26, 2010, 11:17:04 am »
At 45 cents a letter, yes it is too much to ask. If you think it should be doable, start a business delivering first class mail anywhere in the US for 45 cents a letter, and show us how it can be done.

The USPS was established because it was recognized that we need an official way to communicate legal notices, business invoices, etc., to make commerce work. It is subsidized by the US government, because it is a lousy business model, and no private business would touch it.

If you want them to break even, then let them raise the rate to $2.00 per letter, or something, which is probably about how much it really costs. I'm sure it would be a popular move. ;)

Steve

There is a reason that FedEx and UPS are in business and remain in business.  They can, and do, provide a similar service and do so at a profit to their stockholders.  If they can't figure out how to make money at it, then they will go out of business (a la DHL).

The congress won't get out of the way of the USPS doing what's actually necessary to do what they can do more efficiently.  In fact, in the late 70s, the GAO (General Accounting Office) released a report study that said the USPS could save $100 million by closing 12,000 post offices, some of which serverved only a few people or were located absurdly close to other post offices.  The postal union feared that would mean laying off people who were not needed anymore, so they pressured people in congress to oppose the closings and there the idea died.  People in congress at the time didn't like it either because how would they get elected again in their district after losing several post offices and putting people out of work?  In 1977, the USPS was under pressure to keep postal rates low.  They wanted to suspend Saturday delivery.  They estimated they would save $400 million a YEAR by doing so.  The House at the time passed a resolution opposing the change in services, so the USPS had no choice but to drop the idea.   My point is that the people in Washington, for their own political gain, prevent the changes necessary in the USPS that would allow them to become a "break even" service.  The net result of that?  They lost $2.8 billion dollars in fiscal year 2008.  They lost somewhere between $3 billion and $6 billion in fiscal year 2009.  All because of the politicians...the GOVERNMENT interfering with their business sense.

I think making the USPS a totally corportate entity would be BETTER than keeping it partially government-run.  Case in point..  New Zealand corporatized their postal service in 1987.  That change led to improvements in efficiency, a 40% reduction in the number of people required to run it, a doubling in worker productivity, a DECREASE in the cost of sending a letter, and a decrease in the price of a basic stamp.  AND, they did all that without impacting service in either rural or urban communities.

Getting the federal government out of the way, the MARKET found a way to get it done at least as good but cheaper.

So, saying it can't be done without raising the price of a stamp to $2.00 is just not right, in my opinion.

Regards,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #70 on: March 26, 2010, 11:20:04 am »
Well, for one thing insurance companies will not be able deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
Cheers,
Neal

So, who pays the additional money for those people that we KNOW will need to use their insurance that now they're able to get..

Also, is there anything else that you like about this 1,000 page bill?  Certainly there is more..

Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

lori67

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3113
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #71 on: March 26, 2010, 11:33:14 am »
Just for the record, I really would prefer to not have to buy a cow.  If Neal's request goes through, I will be needing the USPS or Fed-Ex to ship my cow to Neal's so he can take care of it for me.

I think as acting Speaker of the Nuthouse, I should be able to waive my cow ownership requirement anyway.

Lori
Right 3cm AN diagnosed 1/2007.  Translab resection 2/20/07 by Dr. David Kaylie and Dr. Karl Hampf at Baptist Hospital in Nashville.  R side deafness, facial nerve paralysis.  Tarsorraphy and tear duct cauterization 5/2007.  BAHA implant 11/8/07. 7-12 nerve jump 9/26/08.

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #72 on: March 26, 2010, 11:35:29 am »
Lori, if this healthcare bill is any indication, then waiving that for the President and for members of congress and their staff would probably be part of the mandate.  So, as Speaker, you'd be waived.  ;)

Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7449
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #73 on: March 26, 2010, 11:39:17 am »
*lightly cracks whip!* ::)

Hi gang, I know this is "AN Community" and we generally don't use the whip in this forum, but please keep in mind that this is not a political discussion forum.  I know there are political discussion forums on the internet.... but, honestly, gang... this is not one of them.

Can we keep the tone down a bit please?  Honestly, this is now making my head spin.

So, yes, its "AN Community" but..... a little lighter in tone, ok? Deal?

Thanks.
Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Pooter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • The Official Breeze Conjurer - PBW
    • Blog Website
Re: the new health bill?
« Reply #74 on: March 26, 2010, 11:47:58 am »
I saw that coming..  In defense of our discussion, it's remained pretty civil.  There has been "flaming" on either side, which is nice..   I agree that we have partially gotten off the medical topic (especially the side discussion between Steve and I about the USPS)..  I'll keep it strictly about the health care bill and continue to do so without flaming anyone (which does nobody any good).  I like healthy debate..  It helps you truly discover what you believe.  :)

Thanks,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager