Author Topic: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!  (Read 34790 times)

sharonov

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
  • 1.7 X 1.3 X 1.1. Retro sigmoid at House, Schwartz
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2009, 10:49:19 am »
Here's what I find amazing, even though I shouldn't:  that any MD would tell someone that they are hopeless just because they don't know what to do.  That's two of you in Canada (and I'm sure many in the States) who have been plunged into hideous despair, and how many others out there who don't have the education, wherewithal or expertise to do research on their own?  Those MD's have the same access to resources that we do.  How many of you who have taken the time to answer have an MD degree?  Why can't those that do spend an hour or so on the internet--an hour or two that could save someone's life or quality of life--instead of protecting their own vanity by stating facts based on their own deficiencies?  I don't get it.  It's criminal.
Sharon

petgroomer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Love to live... Live to love...
    • Vagal Schwannoma
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2009, 01:13:33 pm »
Well, I really don't have much to say.   ???
I have been contacted back by both Dr. Brackmann and Dr. Friedman and they both agree it is too big to work on.  That because I am still able to function that it is best left alone.  Once again, my only remedy is to "wait until it destroys".  I am upset.  I was hoping there WAS a doctor in the world who COULD help fix me.  I was told that eventually I will lose my 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th cranial nerves but that I will still be able to function.  (what does "still be able to function" mean?)  I really just wanted to talk with them more indepth.  I really needed more answers as to the symptoms I AM having.  Anyway,, back to nothing.
I am not symptom free.  However, with surgery they reassure me that my outcome will be worse than I am living with now.
Obviously not a very Happy Thanksgiving to me (Canada), and I'm not feeling too good about this. 
I'm.. Over and Out ....
Thank you all so much for your support and thoughts and advice... 
JULY 2009 found 5.6 cm X 4 cm vagal schwan on the 10th cranial nerve and by MAY 2010 it grew to 7.1 cm X 4 cm X 4.1 cm  Nov 2010 it has grown another 10%... time for C.K.! :)
I love life but I'm finding it harder to do .. one millimetre at a time.
www.vagalschwannoma.com 
www.allinonepetcare.co

mk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2009, 01:20:49 pm »
Oh, I am so sorry that the news you received weren't more positive.
Here is another (maybe last resort?) thought. What about SBI (Skull Base Institute)? They specialize in non-invasive, endoscopic surgery. There are many ANers on the board with excellent results from SBI (frankly I have not heard of anyone who is not satisfied - other than their very high price). I have no idea if endoscopic surgery is feasible in your case but it wouldn't hurt to ask them.

I hope there is a way out there to get you out of the "watch and destroy" status.

Marianna
GK on April 23rd 2008 for 2.9 cm AN at Toronto Western Hospital. Subsequent MRIs showed darkening initially, then growth. Retrosigmoid surgery on April 26th, 2011 with Drs. Akagami and Westerberg at Vancouver General Hospital. Graduallly lost hearing after GK and now SSD but no other issues.

petgroomer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Love to live... Live to love...
    • Vagal Schwannoma
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2009, 01:28:57 pm »
Thank You Mariana...
I do have one last person I am waiting for an answer from, it is Dr. Takanori Fukushima from the Carolina Neuroscience Institute.  He is not back until the 19th and I should hear from him then.
I want everyone to understand I appreciate the honesty from the Dr.'s at HOUSE.  But it was not the answer I was looking for or wanted to hear.
I may very well contact SBI and see what they say after hearing from Dr. Fukushima. 
I just don't have any idea what I am in for here at all with it being left in me. 
JULY 2009 found 5.6 cm X 4 cm vagal schwan on the 10th cranial nerve and by MAY 2010 it grew to 7.1 cm X 4 cm X 4.1 cm  Nov 2010 it has grown another 10%... time for C.K.! :)
I love life but I'm finding it harder to do .. one millimetre at a time.
www.vagalschwannoma.com 
www.allinonepetcare.co

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7449
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2009, 01:54:15 pm »
petgroomer,

I'm sorry to hear that HEI was not able to give you answers you seek... I tried to do a little research for you... I found many studies being done in Japan, Belgium and the UK for vagus nerve schwannomas, but did stumble on a group in N. California that may be worth touching base to see if they can help or maybe recommend a direction for you to take with your research:

I found this study on the AMA website done by a group out of U CA/San Fran:

http://archotol.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/133/7/662

Author Affiliations: Departments of Otolaryngology–Head & Neck Surgery (Drs Saito, El-Sayed, and Eisele) and Radiology (Dr Glastonbury), University of California, San Francisco.


It may be worth checking into.  I'm not sure if answers are out there but was trying to find you something more closer to home to help the cause. Please hang in there (I know easier said than done).  Know that I do understand (as I also have a non-AN ailment that I've been seeking answers and continue the hunt) and I don't know if this info... or if my wellness hugglez will help, but certainly worth a try.

Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

CHD63

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3235
  • Life is good again!!
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2009, 01:59:11 pm »
Rhonda .....

I know it has to be most unsettling to wait this out.  From my own experience I know that Dr. Fukushima will be very honest with you and he will not attempt something he does not feel would improve your life.  I know that is most likely the case with Dr. Brackmann and Dr. Friedman at House, as well.  That being said, House has really perfected AN removals and that is their specialty.  Dr. Fukushima has done many different types of skull base surgeries and thus has much experience beyond ANs.  This past July he removed a second meningioma from a friend's skull.  This one was wrapped around the major blood supply to the brain and thus he was not able to totally remove it for fear of injury to my friend.  She has had a marvelous recovery and is back doing everything she wants to do.  Obviously she has concerns about regrowth so will have regular MRIs.

I pray that Dr. Fukushima will have some options available for you when he returns on the 19th.

Feel free to PM me and I will be happy to give you my phone number or answer any questions you might have.

Clarice
Right MVD for trigeminal neuralgia, 1994, Pittsburgh, PA
Left retrosigmoid 2.6 cm AN removal, February, 2008, Duke U
Tumor regrew to 1.3 cm in February, 2011
Translab AN removal, May, 2011 at HEI, Friedman & Schwartz
Oticon Ponto Pro abutment implant at same time; processor added August, 2011

Jim Scott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7241
  • 1943-2020 Please keep Jim's family in your hearts
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2009, 03:09:23 pm »
Rhonda ~

I'm so sorry to learn of this news from HEI that has brought on your feelings of dejection, which are quite understandable.  I don't have an answer but I hope Dr. Fukushima will have some or, if not, that you'll find a workable solution to your vexing situation.  You're in the thoughts and prayers of many today.  Please do not allow yourself to become totally disheartened. There is always hope.

Jim
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 02:25:12 pm by Jim Scott »
4.5 cm AN diagnosed 5/06.  Retrosigmoid surgery 6/06.  Follow-up FSR completed 10/06.  Tumor shrinkage & necrosis noted on last MRI.  Life is good. 

Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is.  The way we cope with it is what makes the difference.

Mickey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2009, 05:13:49 pm »
Hi Rhonda! Still hoping that you find the right solution. I have mentioned before that I`m W+W for over 2 years now "stable". My wife has a tumor in the stomach area which was attached the "messentary" artery which makes it just about unoperable. After byopsies came back negitive they put her on W+W with a major change in diet and lifestyle. We gave it 7 months and went back expecting the next step be "debulking" To our suprise the tumor reduced in size considerabley. Now we face the next 7 months with more positiveness looking for good results after the holidays. We both feel very good. Please don`t give up hope. Search out allturnatives. We did all the research we could on a healty lifestyle with especially living with tumors accompanied by power of prayer and so far we seem to be doing pretty good under the circustances. I did put a whole load of the supplements we are takin in the W+W post board. Prayers are with you, Mickey + Pat

petgroomer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Love to live... Live to love...
    • Vagal Schwannoma
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2009, 06:09:29 pm »
Dr. Brackmann was kind enough to call me tonight and leave a message.  He did mention to check out cyberknife and see if they can work on a tumour of my size.  He was very nice on the phone and offered to talk with me tomorrow if I needed to call him. 
:)
JULY 2009 found 5.6 cm X 4 cm vagal schwan on the 10th cranial nerve and by MAY 2010 it grew to 7.1 cm X 4 cm X 4.1 cm  Nov 2010 it has grown another 10%... time for C.K.! :)
I love life but I'm finding it harder to do .. one millimetre at a time.
www.vagalschwannoma.com 
www.allinonepetcare.co

jerseygirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2009, 06:33:51 pm »
Petgroomer,

I have read about your plight and I am sorry I am jumping so late. I had 2 AN surgeries, one in 1988 for a 6x3x3 cm tumor and the second one in 2007 for a regrowth attached to the brainstem.  My first tumor spanned most of the cranial nerves, from 3 to 12 and it was huge (I am a very small person with a small head) but I functioned perfectly. Even my hearing was perfect as evidenced by an audiogram before surgery. The discovery of such a huge tumor was quite a shock to everybody. I stood to lose all the cranial nerves affected but lost only the 8th where AN was. So, I was practically in the same boat as you are now, if not worse. Who could predict that I would have the second surgery on the same already damaged cranial nerves and it would work out? That was a difficult situation, too, not so much comparing to the first surgery (that was no comparison - first situation was infinitely more challenging)  but comparing to what people go through with AN now. Nevertheless, I made it and this should give you hope that you will make it, too.

I met with a lot of surgeons and radiation specialists during my AN adventure. I also did not like what HEI told me, so I did not go there. I do have the utmost respect for them and all other surgeons who spent their time consulting me. I feel they clarified and explained the situation so I eventually could make the right decision. I never spoke with Dr. Fukushima and I am curious as to what he has to say. I ended up at SBI for my second surgery after so many surgeons gave me poor odds and one even refused to see me even though he was highly recommended on this board. Don't get me wrong. Dr. Shahinian at SBI is no magician and he might not be the right person for you after all. Just because my surgery worked out is no guarantee that yours would, too. At this point, though, a consultation with him is very worthwhile and I would love to know what he thinks. There is one other doctor in NY whom I seriously considered. That is Dr.Sen at St. Lukes Roosevelt hospital. Let me know if you have trouble finding his phone number. I can help you with that. Both Dr. Sh and Dr. Sen seemed to me to thrive on challenge (don't we have plenty for them) and both took out very difficult tumors when other doctors refused.

From my consultations and experience, I doubt that any surgeon in the world can remove such a huge tumor in its entirety while keeping the nerve it is on.I could be wrong on that one. However, they can remove most of the tumor while preserving the vagus nerve. The nerves 9,11, and 12 should be spared. The tumor thus can be debulked with a little being left on the vagus nerve from which it originates. If the remainder starts to grow, it can be radiated. Vagus nerve is more robust than facial or hearing nerve and is VERY resistant to radiation, as I was told by radiation specialists. Small size of the remaining tumor means that other nerves will get a minimum of radation and therefore a minimum of damage. Moreover, the total amount of radiation needed will be minimum as well. You might experience some vagus neve damage but it can be definitely lived with. It is not the same thing as the vagus nerve absence. By the way, which side is your tumor on?

I hope everything works out for you. You are facing a challenge, for sure, but I don't think your situation is impossible. There is a lot that can be done. Best of luck!

                      Eve
Right side AN (6x3x3 cm) removed in 1988 by Drs. Benjamin & Cohen at NYU (16 hrs); nerves involved III - XII.
Regrowth at the brainstem 2.5 cm removed by Dr.Shahinian in 4 hrs at SBI (hopefully, this time forever); nerves involved IV - X with VIII missing. No facial or swallowing issues.

sgerrard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2009, 07:30:14 pm »
Hi Rhonda,

Eve's response sounds encouraging. I would also see if you can contact a Dr. on the cyberknife forum, or Dr. Steven Chang, who does CK at Stanford. I don't know what they will say, but the rules for a vagus nerve may be different, and it is always a case of balancing the outcome of treatment against the outcome of no treatment.

I know it is daunting to face it, but don't give up hope yet. Somebody may come through for you.

Steve

CK forum: http://www.cyberknife.com/forum.aspx
Dr. Chang: sdchang@stanford.edu
8 mm left AN June 2007,  CK at Stanford Sept 2007.
Hearing lasted a while, but left side is deaf now.
Right side is weak too. Life is quiet.

petgroomer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Love to live... Live to love...
    • Vagal Schwannoma
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2009, 08:30:52 pm »
Hey Steve,
I did already send off the MRI to Dr. Chang with no response yet.  I will call him soon to inquire. When I first contacted him, he sent a nice email requesting the MRI.  I will find out more soon from him I hope.
I thought I had covered most places and Dr. on my quest.  Obviously with the help of all of you, I have been able to contact Dr.'s of high calibre.
I will keep you posted with the response from Dr. Chang and Dr. Fukushima.  Also from the cyberknife.com list I sent a Dr. on there a copy of the MRI.
I will not give up hope.. (actually I kind of did mentally in my earlier post... ) but with you all kicking my butt back into gear I'll keep positive.  
Again all... thank you, thank you, thank you...
Thank you Eve and Micky for the informative info and hope.  I will definately try the SBI!!  I'll email them first with some prelim pics and my plight. :)  By the way, the tumour is on my right side having displaced my two carotid arteries and jugular vein quite a bit already.
Clarice, I appreciate you keeping my hopes up regarding Dr. Fukushima.  Looks like he may be of good advice and knowledge!  
So today I was a bum alllll day because it was our holiday Thanksgiving.  Laid around on the couch ALLLL day.. lol Had my 2 day feast during the weekend.  I am so looking forward to getting on with my week of work!  Keeps my brain busy. :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 08:51:42 pm by petgroomer »
JULY 2009 found 5.6 cm X 4 cm vagal schwan on the 10th cranial nerve and by MAY 2010 it grew to 7.1 cm X 4 cm X 4.1 cm  Nov 2010 it has grown another 10%... time for C.K.! :)
I love life but I'm finding it harder to do .. one millimetre at a time.
www.vagalschwannoma.com 
www.allinonepetcare.co

Tumbleweed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2009, 09:07:09 pm »
Hi, Rhonda:

I am hopeful Dr. Chang can help you; he is amazing, a truly great man.

Here is a link to my very first post on this forum (almost 2 years ago): http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?topic=5782.0
The info I posted there is a compilation of all the research I had done on natural remedies I had hoped would shrink my tumor. Alas, it failed for me and I ended up getting CK. Maybe you'll find something helpful in my research that will at least slow your tumor's growth. I don't believe natural remedies work, by themselves at least, in shrinking an AN. But maybe you would have more success with a vagal schwannoma.

Just throwing out ideas here... trying to help in any way that might somehow work. I still think medical intervention is by far your best hope, but if nobody will treat you then maybe the info on natural remedies might be of some help. I do think (but can't confirm scientifically) that natural remedies can serve as an effective adjuvant to western medicine. That is, I've continued taking a lot of supplements since getting CK, and (perhaps coincidentally) my AN has shown extraordinary shrinkage. But the remedies did nothing to halt its growth before I got CK.

Anyway, my thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope Dr. Chang or SBI or some other doctor can help you.

Sincerely,
TW
L. AN 18x12x9 mm @ diagnosis, 11/07
21x13x11 mm @ CK treatment 7/11/08 (Drs. Chang & Gibbs, Stanford)
21x15x13 mm in 12/08 (5 months post-CK), widespread necrosis, swelling
12x9x6 mm, Nov. 2017; shrank ~78% since treatment!
W&W on stable 6mm hypoglossal tumor found 12/08

yardtick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1321
  • I have to keep smiling, or else I WILL cry.
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2009, 09:53:24 pm »
Rhonda,

Hang in there!!!  I know there is a Dr out there who can help you.  Stay strong and know we are ALL here for you!

Anne Marie
Sept 8/06 Translab
Post surgical headaches, hemifacial spasms and a scar neuroma. 
Our we having fun YET!!! 
Watch & Wait for more fun & games

petgroomer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Love to live... Live to love...
    • Vagal Schwannoma
Re: I am in the "watch and destroy" status * need help!
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2009, 08:47:17 am »
Eve,
You are correct when you say some Doctors love a challenge. 
Dr. Sen did infact contact me back and I was very happy with his remarks.
I am looking for a cure now.  I do not want to wait around until it over takes my 9-12 nerves as I have been requested to do and then I'll be 50 yrs old then and take longer to re-coup or even the damage will be more progressed to even do so.
Dr. Sen gave me a better outlook on my situation and some avenues to turn to. 
Dr. Brackmann/Dr. Friedman also did the same, I must commend them on that.  However, Dr. Sen gave me more hope.  ;)
Will keep you posted again on any more news that comes my way!
Hey,,, just so ya know.. to all you 50-ers..  :)  50 is NOT old, I'll be there soon myself, I just feel the younger you are, the faster you can re-coup and the less damage will occer by then. 
Rhonda
JULY 2009 found 5.6 cm X 4 cm vagal schwan on the 10th cranial nerve and by MAY 2010 it grew to 7.1 cm X 4 cm X 4.1 cm  Nov 2010 it has grown another 10%... time for C.K.! :)
I love life but I'm finding it harder to do .. one millimetre at a time.
www.vagalschwannoma.com 
www.allinonepetcare.co