ANA Book Club?

[sgerrard]

#12:

After Jacob successfully coaches August in Polish commands for Rosie, he observes, "It's only when I catch Rosie actually purring under August's loving ministrations that my conviction starts to crumble. And what I'm left looking at in its place is a terrible thing" (page 229).

What is Jacob left "looking at," how does it pertain to August's personality and Jacob's relationship with August, and what makes it a "terrible thing"?

It's a bonus point question.

Steve

Hint: the conviction that is crumbling is "I don't believe for a second that this is the real August"

[leapyrtwins]

Thanks for the question, Steve.  Now if I only knew the answer - despite the clue, I'm just not coming up with anything.  Must be what I call  "a bad brain day" 

Kate -

thanks for offering to post the question.  By the time I logged back on tonight and saw your response, Steve had already posted it.

BTW, did you figure out who "did August in" between the time you read the prologue and the time you read the chapter about the stampede?  And what did you think of Jacob?

Jan

[sgerrard]

Hint #2: I think Jacob kind of answers the question himself on the next page. 

Steve

[Kaybo]

I always wondered why Jacob (or the guy who was speakingPolish to begin with) didn't just go with it and convince August it was TOO hard for him to learn so that they get Rosie out of his care (& horrible ways w/ her)...

I thought that he was realizing that now not just one (Marlena) person he cared about, but TWO (Rosie also)  "could at times" fall under August's spell and Jacob didn't like how that made him think or feel...

K

I haven't had my coffee yet, I may answer better later!!   

[leapyrtwins]

Hint #2: I think Jacob kind of answers the question himself on the next page. 

I was hoping for the easy way out here, Steve - as in you just telling me the answer 

Guess I'll have to dig around for that book afterall - unless someone else is kind enough to enlighten me.

Jan

[sgerrard]

Jacob's next words are "Maybe it was me. Maybe I wanted to hate him because I'm in love with his wife, and if that's the case, what kind of a man does that make me?"

I think the "terrible thing" he is seeing is envy - that he is after Marlena, and that could be distorting his view of things. It raises the question of whether it is okay for Marlena and Jacob to be flirting and carrying on as they do, given that Marlena is married to August. Is there a standard by which you can judge August, and if he is a bad enough guy, then it is okay for Jacob and Marlena to have an affair?

Although I like K's plan. Having Jacob become Rosie's handler would have been better for both of them...

Steve

[leapyrtwins]

Thanks for bailing me out, Steve.  Guess I don't get the bonus points 

In my opinion because Marlena is married to August - whether he's a bad man or not - she and Jacob should not be flirting and carrying on.  Well, flirting may actually be okay, if it is nothing more than harmless flirting.  But I think that carrying on, is definitely taking things too far.  Call me old school, but I firmly believe if you want to cheat, you need to end your current relationship first.  If, for no other reason, than out of respect for the person you have a commitment with.   

I was married for almost 22 years, and although cheating was not an issue between my ex and me, I always knew that if he cheated, there was no question our relationship would be over.  I also knew that if I wanted to cheat, I would be ending my marriage first.  I'm sure others have different feelings, and I respect that, but I don't believe in second chances when it comes to cheating.  Kind of harsh, I know, but it's what I believe. 

August is a pretty bad guy - but should he be cheated on because of that?  I vote no.

What do the rest of you guys think?

Jan

 

[Kaybo]

I agree, Jan.  I know that I am old school, but I have a strong faith and try to live my life based on what the Bible (God) wants us to do.  A vow is just that & should not be taken lightly...

K

[yardtick]

DITTO, even though I didn't read the book!  A vow is a vow made in front of God and the eyes of our loved ones.

Anne Marie

[leapyrtwins]

Anne Marie -

it's a good book.  I liked it a lot; I think you would too 

Jan

[Kaybo]

I don't know the order that we are going in and I know that we are not thru discussing this book yet, but I actually may have one to suggest next.  My SIL was telling me about it when I was in Houston so I know it is not just FLUFF if she was reading it.  She was actually reading it again when I was there (she had just finished it the 1st time) b/c she thought it was so good and she wanted to make sure that she hadn't missed anything.  Apparently she is usually not fooled and was this time.  She is a very smart woman and so I am very curious to read it!  Sounded interesting to me.  Let me know what you think...

K

[sgerrard]

Okay, so if you think they should not have been carrying on, what does that mean you think of Jacob at that time? When he asked himself "what kind of man does that make me?" What kind did it make him?

I would also like to toss out that I think August pretty clearly suffered from schizophrenia. His normal Dr. Jekyll self was pretty nice; it was only his insane Mr. Hyde self that was so violent and angry. I think that if he were living today, he might be on a suitable medication for controlling schizophrenia, and might well be a positive person in society - and in his marriage. Was he really a bad man, or just a very mentally ill man?

Why am I just asking questions, instead of answering some?    I guess I wonder whether Jacob and Marlena were triggering episodes in August by interacting with each other as they did. I think they are not entirely blameless for all that took place. I still like them, though, and am glad they wound up together, along with the elephant, the chimp, and the horses.

So K, what is the title of the book? Sounds interesting...

Steve

[MaryBKAriz]

Very good point, Steve! I thought he was mentally ill, too. How terrifying for those around August. Probably even MORE terrifying to HIM!! Not to excuse what he did, but what would happen to him today, if treated? You could also see what Marlena was attracted to in August when he was his charming self. Would she have even have noticed Jacob?

You could tell Jacob had such angst over his affair. In those times it would be even more taboo than now. Jacob was a good man and I felt this showed he was also a sinner. While I definitely think he and Marlena reacted the wrong way to their attraction, the story would have been less interesting without their misdeeds. One of my favorite movies is Schindler's List because it was a true story of a very flawed person who also did absolutely off the chart amazingly good things, also. This wa sort of the same idea to me. Even flawed people can do profoundly good things in our world. It could be an inspiration to us all.

Mary

[leapyrtwins]

I think Jacob got wrapped up in his feelings for Marlena and I don't fault him for that.  I just think he should have insisted that Marlena end her relationship with August before starting one with him.  Easier said than done, but if you "belong" to someone, you shouldn't be "interacting" that way with another.  I think you know what I mean 

I don't think I would call Jacob weak, or a cheater, but I would say he had bad judgment - IMO, Marlena did also.

Good point, Steve, about August.  We've been saying he was "bad", but I think he was mentally ill - and it's not the same thing.  As Mary suggested, if August could have gotten help and been his charming self the majority of the time, I don't think Marlena would have been attracted to Jacob the way she was.

Without medication to control his illness, Jacob & Marlena's relationship definitely triggered August's episodes, but I think that even without that, he would have been triggered by something.

Steve, I'm turning the tables here.  What kind of man do you think Jacob is - in light of his relationship with Marlena? 

And K, yes, please tell us the title of the book.

Jan

[Kaybo]

The Thirteenth Tale ~  anyone heard of or read this?  I don't know much about it really, but am intrigued!!

K