Author Topic: Questions – about "modified LINAC" options and IMRT options  (Read 3453 times)

bob_michigan

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I studied the following web page that was recommended to me ...
http://www.cksociety.org/PatientInfo/radiosurgery_stereotactic_technology_comparisons.asp

--- overall, it's an informative web page, as I learned a few things, so I am very thankful for people directing me to it

Below are questions that I have as a result of reviewing the web page.

Starting year(s) ... and how many variations... Modified LINAC Treatment Options --- Since there is only one Gamma Knife (trademark of Elektra) system and one (continuously improved over 30 years) Gamma Knife treatment procedure with very specific hardware and software, it is clearly one treatment protocol.  It is stated on the cksociety web page that the modified linac options started to be developed in 1980's so that's good to know --- 30 years after GK. 

(by the way, I do realize that this "one" does involve some degree of variation, such as sometimes the use of both MRI and CT-Scans being done by some treatment teams in order to mazimize accuracy  ... I do not know if all treatment teams do that or will do that in the future, but perhaps that's an example of the treatment procedure getting continuous improvement over time)

When was the first modified LINAC treatment option used to treat patients?

Currently how many "modified linac systems" (hardware and software) are there and when was each one started? 

To be more accurate .... how many "modified linac treatment options" have been established across all U.S. hospitals across all of the various "modified linac systems"?  (Basis of this statement:  the radiation oncology departments have purchased and used some number of brands of hardware and software for their linac capabilities for treating cancer .... and some of them are now used for 'modified linac systems".  And the use of that hardware and software for FSR treatment of ANs varies by the number of days and perhaps other factors.)

Side comment:  perhaps many people have the impression that their FSR treatment is some kind of standard treatment option (protocol or procedural steps or whatever one would call it) with some kind of standard system (hardware and software) and number of days across the medical profession.  The web page accurately uses the plural --- "systems", not "system" --- so that is good.

IMRT options --- I have the same set of questions for IMRT options that I do for "Modified LINAC treatment options" as per the questions above

Thanks for any answers to any of the questions, 

Bob
2.3 cm diam 2.6 cm long AN
   neurosurgeon reports longest dimension ("tail") is 3 cm
Diagnosed (Feb 06)

« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 05:16:29 pm by bob_michigan »
2.3 cm diam 2.6 cm long AN
   neurosurgeon reports longest dimension ("tail") is 3 cm
Diagnosed in Feb 06

bob_michigan

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expectation of answer(s) ... and preparation for Johns Hopkins
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2006, 05:13:18 pm »
I think that I posted a similar set of questions somewhere else a couple of weeks ago and never got any answer.

The web page was helpful in perhaps refining my questions compared to how they were asked before, in case someone may have seen them posted before.

I don't necessarily expect to get the data.  I do expect someone to share or observe that there are MANY FSR treatment options of hardware and software and number of days ... and so on ... and so on.  That is what I suspect, so that is what I would like to confirm.

In the meantime I would like to ask the set of questions to Johns Hopkins physicians tomorrow and see what happens there in terms of getting their answers.
2.3 cm diam 2.6 cm long AN
   neurosurgeon reports longest dimension ("tail") is 3 cm
Diagnosed in Feb 06

Battyp

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Hi Bob,
 Speaking for myself, I did not understand what you were even questioning.  I wanted to ask you if you were an engineer.  I did however read the article which was very informative.  Thanks for sharing and I hope you can find someone to answer the questions that you have. 

Michelle

bob_michigan

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engineer?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2006, 05:51:38 pm »
Michelle,    Engineer?  ... yes ... degree in engineering and worked as one for roughly 10 years ... I love data!!   :)

Operating based on facts is a good thing ... at least when it comes to one's life and medical decisions! 

And ... you're most welcome!    --- Bob
« Last Edit: March 30, 2006, 06:34:05 pm by bob_michigan »
2.3 cm diam 2.6 cm long AN
   neurosurgeon reports longest dimension ("tail") is 3 cm
Diagnosed in Feb 06

Battyp

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Your post sounded like many of the engineers I've talked to.  Way above my head  lol 

Yes, operating on facts is a good thing but the normal person has to be able to understand the facts!

After surgery I have a hard time understand the simple things..didn't used to be like that  >:(

ppearl214

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I work with electrical engineers.. I know an analytical mind when I read one! :)

Bob, I wish I had the answers you seek.. but I don't. Maybe Mark knows?  Not sure unless you go to the mfg of each device and question them directly? Just a thought?

Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Mark

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Bob,

You pose some very interesting questions in terms of the evolution of the GK and LINAC machines. Candidly, in terms of how many of what type of system or machine are out there, I'm not sure , but I'm also not clear how relevant that is to a treatment choice. Having been in the hospital supply business my entire business career I can say confidently that decisions on what machines to purchase by a hospital don't always reflect a "best of breed" criteria. For example, GK like many medical device manufacturers , has established many financially supportive relationships with key medical centers that purchased it's machines such as Pitt and UVA which influences what they buy and recommend to patients. Others that can't afford a dedicated GK machine, get one that can do IMRT but be utilized for radiosurgery when necessary by means of a headframe or other restraint such as Novalis. Politics, backside money, mutiliplicity of functionality with limited capital dollars all impact big capital purchases of CK, GK and others. It is what it is, but the machines are what they are.

LINAC machines arose in the 80's as an alternative to the cobalt radioactive source of GK. The biological impact to the AN is the same, the difference is that the cobalt is "dirtier" to dispose of then the radiation generated by the linear accelerator which does not have the disposal issue. There is no differential to the patient or AN

You're absolutely right that there are a variety of FSR protocols both in terms of total GY delivered and number of days to deliver it. It is clearly variable to the individual preferences of the physician as well as the unique aspects of the tumor as they program it into the computer. In the CK environment , while the majority of the practioners seem to use the 3 day approach such as I had, I have also seen folks that had 1 or 5. Is one better than the other or is that there that much difference in outcome in any of them is a great question which I think is best answered by asking how long have they done the protocol and what do their outcomes show over what period of time. Additionally, the number of treatments is often dictated by the machines ability. GK and CK are the most accurate and can deliver higher doses in less treatments safely. Other machines such as Novalis are not as accuarate and will usually have a larger number of treatments at a lower dose to compensate. In other words, knowing they will have more "collateral" damage than the other machines , they spread the treatments over more days

I don't know if the above gets at all of your questions , but hopefully it addresses some

mark
CK for a 2 cm AN with Dr. Chang/ Dr. Gibbs at Stanford
November 2001

Larry

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Bob,

I haven't read the article yet but past readings of comparisons between CK versus GK highlight, as mark says, physiciam preference, or in my case (down under), I have a choice of a Linac machine or a Linac machine. So its GK for me - when I choose to undertake it.

The jury is certainly out on the qantum level of gamma or x rays that one is treated with. The GY level seems to work anywhere between 15 and early 20's. I guess thats dependant on the size and location of the tumour. Knowledge of AN's and their treatment by radiation is still imature. Its a little like the VHS versus Beta argument and soon to be had Blu ray versus HD. At the end of the day, it comes down to what sort of treatment access you have close by and whether you want something screwed into your head and a one off burst or something spread over a few days.

A difficult choice. I don't think, from my readings thus far, that one is better than the other, just that it is a viable option to surgery.

Larry
2.0cm AN removed Nov 2002.
Dr Chang St Vincents, Sydney
Australia. Regrowth discovered
Nov 2005. Watch and wait until 2010 when I had radiotherapy. 20% shrinkage and no change since - You beauty
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http://www.frappr.com/laz