Author Topic: Unnecessary Tests?  (Read 4218 times)

Dog Lover

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Unnecessary Tests?
« on: June 25, 2009, 08:40:37 pm »
So, I was listening to the news this morning and they were talking about healthcare, insurance, etc. They were stating that most doctors currently do unnecessary tests because of the risk of being sued for malpractice.

That got me to thinking. When I went to my ENT last summer, the only symptoms I had was a slight hearing loss, ringing in my ear, and occasionally having my ear completely plug up. So, I wonder if the MRI that he had me get was one of these CYA type of tests. I am inclined to think so, as he said that the hearing loss in only one ear meant that he needed to test for this, although he didn't expect there to be a tumor. (And the rest is history...). Makes me think that maybe all of these so called unnecessay tests that may be for obscure, rare conditions that may not be common, but for those of us who are affected by these rare things...the tests saved our lives.

Curious as to what others think.

Cathy



« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 09:12:23 pm by Dog Lover »
Cathy
9mm x 3mm Left Side AN
Mid Fossa Aug. 21, 2008
Dr. Gantz / Dr. Woodson
Univ. of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics
No facial issues, hearing saved, I keep active and feel back to normal.

LOIS

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 09:17:25 pm »
Hi Cathy,

I have to agree.  The first ENT I went to was my own (couldn't get in) and he sent me for a hearing test.  The girl that did the hearing test said I needed a ABV or something like that, cant remember now.  Maybe it was ABS.  It had something to do with the brainstem.  Long story short, after ENT had put me on 6 different allergy meds at the same time and I asked about this test that was mentioned, he told me that was overkill.  My only symptoms at the time were constant hissing in one ear for about 4 months, and some dizziness and balance issues.  I called the girl that initially did the hearing test and she said to get to my regular ENT right away.  I called the office, explained the situation and got right in.  He said to stop all allergy meds and did the recommended test which led to the MRI which led to the diagnosis of an AN.  When I called the first ENT to complain about the way he handled my situation he went on to say that an AN is very rare and had my symptoms continued another 6 months, he would have sent me for the suggested tests.  We ended up in an argument during which he claimed the insurance companies dont like it when the doc sends patients in for tests, how expensive they were and especially for something so rare.  I told him it may be rare but obviously somebody is going to get the rarities and didn't appreciate being put on 6 different unnecessary meds because of him trying to please the insurance companies.  Of course he stood his ground with me but did say at the end the next time something like that happened with one of his patients he might do it a little differently.  My regular ENT was very upset at the way the first dr. handled it saying that the girl that had done the hearing test had been doing her job for 25 years and was on target with her recommendations almost 100%.  He said he never questioned what she suggested and was very good at what she did.  He told me up and coming ENTs were now being trained that if there is a problem with one ear it is most likely the brain and not the ear at all and to go straight for the MRI.  He also gave me the name of whom to talk to in the office so that in the future there would not be a problem of me getting an appointment right away as he was not happy with what happened there.  Well, long story short became long but, yes, I do agree there is a problem.

Lois
Diagnosed 07/08   1.2 x 1.1 cm. left AN Retosigmoid surgery 08/08 with Dr. Bartels  @ Tampa General Hospital

sgerrard

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 11:37:37 pm »
I think every test that comes back negative is deemed unnecessary by some people. I think someone at my insurance company, when I first called to say "I will be running up some bills," said they would pay for the MRI since it showed I had something. I remember thinking "wow, and not if it didn't?"

For something like colon cancer, I think the cost of screening lots of people balances out against the cost of treating someone with an advanced case, because it is fairly common. Unfortunately, for something as rare as an acoustic neuroma, the cost of giving everyone MRIs would be much higher than the cost of treating the occasional AN.

In the end, whether it is from taxes or insurance premiums, it is our money that is paying for everything. The reality is that we do have to play the cost vs. benefit game to try and get the best health care we can out of that money.

Steve
8 mm left AN June 2007,  CK at Stanford Sept 2007.
Hearing lasted a while, but left side is deaf now.
Right side is weak too. Life is quiet.

28Lisa

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 12:37:56 am »
I wished ALL doctors would take that initiative as to order the correct tests.  When I had blurred vision back in 07, I went to my optomologist and she found that behind my left eye the vein was swollen so she sent me to the ER and suggested I take an immediate MRI but when I got to the ER, even upon reading what she requested the Dr.gave me a CT scan (probably cuz it was cheaper) which caused me to be misdiagnosed with fluid to the brain, they wanted to do a spinal tap but I signed release forms, thinking I'd go to another hospital and get a second opinion, thank God I did, they found the AN,with the MRI with contrast so like I was saying I wish ALL doctors take more precautions......more lives would be saved
A.N. 4+cm, 9/11/07 @ NY Presbyterian Hospital, Dr. Phillip Stieg
post opt - partial facial paralysis on left side, total hear loss on left side, speech altered, loss of taste, smell,balance, loss of sensation on right side from shoulder down, low motor skills, eye weight 11/07

Jim Scott

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 09:05:11 am »
Interesting issue.  Thanks for raising it, Cathy.

When I presented to my PCP with longterm, profound unilateral hearing loss, stabbing pains on one side of my head, loss of the sense of taste (and subsequent 30 pound weight loss), imbalance and fatigue he did some blood work, which showed nothing amiss, then sent me for an MRI scan, ostensibly to 'check out my sinuses'.  The MRI scan showed that my sinuses were fine but that I had a large acoustic neuroma.  He called me the same day I had the MRI (at 7:00 P.M. from his cell phone) to give me the news.  Frankly, although I initially thought the MRI was 'overkill', I'm very glad my doctor was cautious enough to order it as quickly as he did and not waste my time and my insurance company's money chasing illusory problems when the MRI made it strikingly clear what the real source of my symptoms was. 

I feel bad when I read posts from AN patients who were misdiagnosed for months and years, took useless medications and suffered because a doctor (often an ENT) didn't think it was necessary to order an MRI scan.  Whether this reluctance to order an MRI scan stems from a physician's hubris or an aversion to annoying the health insurance companies who pay most of the doctors fees, it needs to be rectified.  Frankly, because we can't control what doctors think, we have to be proactive with our health.  My wife (who has never had an acoustic neuroma) is very good at that.  She chooses doctors that listen to her and if she has a medical problem they can't find a reason for, they'll order the kinds of tests that can find the source - or rule it out, in some cases. 

In the final analysis, it's not only our money paying for the tests and doctor's fees (via premiums, co-pays and taxes) but more importantly, it's our health and quality of life at stake.  We can't afford to be passive with that and simply depend on the medical professionals to know everything and always come to the right conclusion, especially when a condition persists despite numerous, fruitless attempts to address it, usually with medicine.   I'm certain that some doctors order 'unnecessary' tests as a CYA measure but I believe that if you have a good relationship with your doctor, he won't do that.  If my doctor orders a test, I'll ask him why.  If he dismisses my question or offers a vague answer, I'll press the point.  A responsible physician should offer a cogent explanation.   If that doesn't happen, consistently, find another doctor.  I would, in a heartbeat.  Again, it's your body and your quality of life at stake.  You have to be proactive with your own health.  This seems obvious but often, lack of information and a willingness to accept whatever the doctor says, even when what he says doesn't seem to make much sense (your symptoms don't improve) can lead to bigger problems and frustration, even anger, when the source of the symptoms are finally revealed, as with some AN patients who waste time with ENT-prescribed ear remedies when the problem is really an acoustic neuroma.  If something isn't working, push for a test that may help you and your doctor find the source of the problem.  In that scenario, no medical test, especially an MRI scan, is 'unnecessary'.  Even if it shows nothing, an acoustic neuroma or brain tumor has been ruled out.  That's significant information.  Once again, I want to emphasize that the key is to be proactive.

Jim
4.5 cm AN diagnosed 5/06.  Retrosigmoid surgery 6/06.  Follow-up FSR completed 10/06.  Tumor shrinkage & necrosis noted on last MRI.  Life is good. 

Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is.  The way we cope with it is what makes the difference.

nteeman

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2009, 10:45:00 am »
I had a similar situation: I went to an ENT because of hearing loss in my left ear. He had his Audiologist test me and, yes, I had a hearing loss in my left ear. He decided to watch and wait. A year later I cam back and this time there was not any change in my hearing but I was experiencing facial spasms on the left side of my face. Again my ENT said lets watch and wait. I just happened to see my Chiropracter and explained what I was going through with my hearing and facial spasms and she insisted that I get an MRI ASAP. That was in December 2008, I had my surgery in January 2009 and that ENT is no longer my doctor. I bought my Chiroprater a bottle of Champagne.  ;D

Neal
Diagnosed 12/16/2008
AN 2.4 X 2.0 X 1.6 CM
surgery performed on 1/27/2009 Mt. Sinai Hospital, NYC
Dr.Bederson & Dr. Smouha
9:30am thru 5:50pm
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wendysig

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2009, 12:29:36 pm »
In my case, my ENT suspected an AN right away, although he didn't say so.  He had me come back a few days after my initial consultation for a hearing test and ABR (auditory brainstem response test) and when that was irregular, immediately sent me for an MRI.  I had my diagnosis within 2 1/2 weeks of my initial consultation.  Seeing what many of you have gone through to get a diagnosis, I found this extremely impressive.  When he sent me to Dr. Choe after my diagnosis, I'm sure his faith in Dr. Choe's abilities and expertise made an impression on me.  As it turned out, I found two excellent doctors, and I certainly can't complain about that.

Wendy
1.3 cm at time of diagnosis -  April 9, 2008
2 cm at time of surgery
SSD right side translabyrinthine July 25, 2008
Mt. Sinai Hospital, New York, NY
Extremely grateful for the wonderful Dr. Choe & Dr. Chen
BAHA surgery 1/5/09
Doing great!

suboo73

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 07:01:43 am »
Interesting issue.  Thanks for raising it, Cathy.

Again, it's your body and your quality of life at stake.  You have to be proactive with your own health.  This seems obvious but often, lack of information and a willingness to accept whatever the doctor says, even when what he says doesn't seem to make much sense (your symptoms don't improve) can lead to bigger problems and frustration, even anger, when the source of the symptoms are finally revealed, as with some AN patients who waste time with ENT-prescribed ear remedies when the problem is really an acoustic neuroma.  If something isn't working, push for a test that may help you and your doctor find the source of the problem.  In that scenario, no medical test, especially an MRI scan, is 'unnecessary'.  Even if it shows nothing, an acoustic neuroma or brain tumor has been ruled out.  That's significant information.  Once again, I want to emphasize that the key is to be proactive.

Jim

Makes me think that maybe all of these so called unnecessay tests that may be for obscure, rare conditions that may not be common, but for those of us who are affected by these rare things...the tests saved our lives.

Curious as to what others think. Cathy


Cathy,

Well, i would not be here if my sister's ENT had not been so proactive in sending her for an MRI.
Then i had to go and ask an ENT i had never met before that day for my OWN MRI after years of annoying but what i thought were age related symptoms.  Oh my!  --  IMO, being proactive is the key.  As Jim says, being able to ask questions to the physician and communicate with him/her is so very necessary, even if you have to push for a test to be done.  No one wants the frustration, anger, etc - but so many unfortunately have this experience. 

Yes, as you said - tests that saved our lives....  I just wanted the AN ruled out, and even though it was not, i now have the information i need to proceed with this special journey. 

Sue
« Last Edit: July 03, 2009, 07:04:10 am by suboo73 »
suboo73
Little sister to Bigsister!
9mm X 6mm X 5mm
Misdiagnosed 12+ years?
Diagnosed Sept. 2008/MRI 4/09/MRI 12/09/MRI 1/21/11
Continued W & W

msmaggie

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009, 06:35:36 pm »
I agree.  Let's hear it for the tests done solely to rule out things.  That's how I found out about the meningioma and the meningitis.  Sometimes the mundane produces the extraordinary, even if we grumble at the time. I'm very glad for drs. who don't "assume" all is well.

Priscilla
Diagnosed  left AN 8/07/08, 1.9 CM
Surgery 12/10/08 at Methodist Hospital w/Vrabec and Trask for what turned out to be a cpa meningioma.

cherrypiper

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2009, 03:14:52 pm »
well i was stone deaf in my rt ear. i was thinking maybe a hearing aid could help. so we went thru the insurance , got the referrals. i knew i had tinnitis, ring away. but when the ent found NO signal in rt ear of any kind getting thru,

then we went to mri and as most of us know , AN popped up. so in this case , as with most of us i'd wager, one thing led to another......

its been 19 months now post op, and some things still aint improved BUT the tumor is gone, not grown back and the rest is minor details when i really focus on that..........
10 mm x 2.4mm surgery date 12/03/07

glad to be here

Adrienne

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2009, 11:11:41 pm »
The hearing specialist said (and I quote) "I'm going to send you for an MRI just to rule something out.  I don't want you to worry about it AT ALL though.  I'm just ruling it out."  He was confident that I had nothing wrong and my hearing loss was just "a fact of life".  When he got the results of my MRI back, he was FLOORED.  He himself was sooooo thankful that he sent me, even though he didn't feel it would show anything.  It isn't something they see every day.......
3.0 x 3.0 x 2.5 cm AN, left side.  Diagnosed Feb. 19th,2009
Retro Sig surgery with Dr. Akagami and Dr. Westerberg on May 26/09 at Vancouver General Hospital
SUCCESS! Completely removed tumor, preserved facial nerve, and retained a lot of hearing. Colour me HAPPY!

goinbatty

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Re: Unnecessary Tests?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2009, 04:34:27 pm »
My symptoms were mild.  The neurotologist thought it was possibly early Meniere's.  He gave me a script for the MRI but left it up to me as to whether I wanted to get it done.  After a week and getting more paranoid, I thankfully did.  And the rest is history. 
Sandra
1/2007 - 6 x 4.5 mm AN
8/2007 - 9 x 6 mm
CK at Georgetown 1/7/08-1/11/08; Dr. Gagnon
3/2008 - 10 x 7 mm
7/2008 - 9 x 10 x 6 mm (NECROTIC CENTER!!!!!)
5/2009 - no change/stable
4/2010 - 10 x 7 x 6 mm; stable/no change
5/2011 - 10 x 7; stable/no change
6/2012 - 8.1 x 7 mm
4/2014 - stable/no change