disability

[badbadbrain67]

I wasn't sure where to post this issue so i went for general.
This is my second post/rant of the day. I'm having some issues.
I am receiving disability through work ( from The Hartford). They required me to apply for Social Security Disability and had me sign a piece of
paper saying that they would deduct whatever I got from SSD from the Hartford payments. I took this to mean that they would start deducting
from the time I was approved by SSD, but they actually started deducting $900 a month right away.
Since i get direct deposit, I didn't notice this for about three months. That''s a lot of money when you are not getting much in the first place.
What they are doing, is deducting what they think I will be receiving from SSD if I get approved (big IF).
If I were to get approved, I would have to return all the money back to the Hartford that SSD would theoretically give me since i first applied.
We're talking months and i would only have 15 days to return the money to the hartford.
If I don't get approved, what happens to the money they haven't been giving me the last few months? We're talking a couple of thousand or more.
I asked if i could apply for retro pay and they said no. They keep the money.
I know life isn't fair sometimes (we all know that since we all got tumors in our heads) but this seems especially cruel and unfair.
If I get approved by SSD (very unlikely) I have to give the money back in 15 days. If I don't get approved, they get to keep
the money they didn't give for the last three months if I don't get approved. Where does the money go?
I recently redid paperwork to get full payment from them but it still hurts when i think of the money they get to keep that
could have helped me out a lot.
Really it was my fault for not understanding what I was signing (I had head surgery for God's sake) and for not checking my account
to make sure i was getting full payments but it seems to me that the money was mine in the first place and they should only get to
keep it IN CASE I get approved by SSD.
Can anyone offer their wisdom on weather it's possibly to get that money back or is it a lost cause.
If this is in the wrong category, can someone please redirect it for me?
Thanks for listening,
Victor

[Jim Scott]

Hi,Victor ~

I can relate to your questions and concerns because my wife and I both worked for The Hartford (AARP division/Southington, CT) and, although I only worked there for 18 months (1994-95) my wife started at the Hartford in 1984 and went out on disability (related to spinal damage due to a 1992 auto accident) in 1996 and is still (officially) an employee.  Her Hartford disability coverage paid 70% of her former salary and the company demanded that she apply for Social Security Disability benefits because, in their words "it's an entitlement".  She was told that if she was approved for the SS benefits, the company would deduct that amount from her monthly check.  Long story short: she applied, had to hire an attorney (on a contingency fee basis) and, one year later, was approved.  During that time, The Hartford continued to pay her full disability (the aforementioned 70% of her salary) benefit but advised her that if she was approved for Social Security Disability, they would add up the amount of money SS would have paid her from when she first applied to SS and she would 'owe' that amount to The Hartford.  Fortunately, when you apply to the Social Security Administration for disability benefits, even if you're originally turned down (as most applicants are) and have to appeal before finally being awarded a disability benefit, they calculate your benefit from the day you first applied to SS.  That means that if it takes say, a year to receive your monthly SS disability benefit, once approved, the Social Security Administration sends you a check for a years worth of benefits.  This is what happened to my wife.  She 'owed' The Hartford about half of the total she received and she also paid the attorney from that award which was approximately 30% of the total, leaving her with a relatively small amount but enough to pay some bills and, more importantly, she was now assured a monthly income from both Social Security and The Hartford that, combined, would total the originally stipulated amount of 70% of her former Hartford salary (she was a senior supervisor in claims).   I have to mention that all this occurred back in 1996-97 and perhaps the Hartford has changed the rules on disability claims since then.   

I don't understand how the Hartford can legally keep the money your disability insurance pays on the basis that you might be awarded a disability benefit from the Social Security Administration, which, even if it happens, is an arduous process that can take a few years to complete.  Besides, if they're already deducting the assumed SS disability benefit from your Hartford disability check, how could you then owe the company any money if you later were awarded a SS disability benefit?  That makes no sense.  If this is the case and you literally signed away that money, you may have no legal recourse.  However, I'm not an attorney and cannot make any recommendations except to suggest that you clarify the terms for receiving your full company disability benefit and how they can retain a large portion of that benefit on the basis of what might happen (being awarded SS benefits).  That doesn't sound 'legal' but again, I'm not an attorney.  However, once you've clarified whether or not The Hartford is actually withholding money from your company disability check in anticipation of you receiving an 'award' from the Social Security Disability Administration, you may want to consider consulting an attorney to attempt to rectify the situation.  Frankly, I hope it doesn't come to that.

FYI: as a part of The Hartford disability coverage, you'll be required to submit to a physical evaluation every year or so by a doctor of their choice (the company pays his fee) and your PCP will have to submit a company questionnaire every year.  My wife's doctor charges her for filling out the questionnaire.  Occasionally, the company may send an investigator around to spy on you (it's legal) and observe whether you're really disabled.  They take video and confront you with it.  This happened to my wife some years back.  All she did was ride in a car with a friend to a mall about 30 miles away but the investigator (who followed them) tried to make it seem as if she were doing gymnastics or something.  I wasn't there but the investigator didn't follow through with the alleged violation (which was bogus).  When I returned from work, he had just left and my wife's eyes were red but she said he told her he wouldn't pursue the issue.  I don't believe she's been spied on by a Hartford investigator, since then.  I hope not.  Her injuries are quite legitimate (with doctors documentation) and she has undergone numerous serious spinal operations in the past decade. She struggles with pain every day.  She often says that she would much rather be back at The Hartford than have to deal with her injuries and resultant pain issues - but that is not to be.  We find it frustrating that the company makes those on disability run a gauntlet to secure their legally contracted benefit but we also realize that there are many dishonest people that lie about injuries and are not really disabled but collect benefits, so we understand the company's caution even if we don't necessarily appreciate the occasional hassle.

I trust that you'll be able to get your disability benefit situation straightened out and not be put in a financial bind.  If you wish, you may PM me for more information. 

Jim

Moved this to AN Community because it isn't an AN issue but a disability insurance issue.  J.S.

[suz]

Hello Victor,
I am covered for my short-term disability through the Hartford Company as well. I do not anticipate needing long-term coverage so my situation is quite different but I thought I should share my experience with this company anyway.
The impression I have with them based on my limited experience is  that they will take any course they can to NOT pay you any money or pay as little as possible.
What happenned for me is this: I applied as required well ahead of my surgery, did everything that they asked of me - with the exception of calling them "THE DAY AFTER SURGERY"(yes, this is specifically what they required, even when I explained that I would likely be in intensive care that day) to give them an update on my anticipated need for time off. My employer and Hartford require that I use up my accumulated sick time before benefits from Hartford kick-in. I have SEVEN WEEKs of sick time banked, and since my estimated leave would be eight weeks, we are really talking about paying me one week of disability $.  The Hartford company attempted to reach my doctor to get the appropriate procedure code for the surgery but they claim that the doctor never responded so they JUST MADE UP A CODE! They chose a code for a different type of craniotomy procedure; one that requires much less recovery time - so they just DENIED MY CLAIM! I hit the ceiling when I opened that letter! But then I remembered that supposedly, they work for me. I pay for their services, and have paid into this policy for years so I was not going to give up. I called the company and asked questions; of course the person that I really needed to speak to was not going to be back in the office for another week, but when I pushed them they promised to investigate the problem. From the very first phone call I had had with this company I had little faith in them. The "nurse" that took my intake info asked if I was going to have my brain surgery "inpatient" or "outpatient".  Huh?
To make a long story short, once the Hartford people got the correct code - everything changed. But I wonder how many people would have simply gone back to work and accepted what the company said? As a nurse, it makes me really angry. I am recovering from surgery and should not have to deal with that aggravation. I don't trust that company - no disrespect to you or your wife, Jim, but Victor - i would be very assertive and on top of what The Hartford does. And if you can get a lawyer involved that may be very helpful to you in the long-run. Best of luck. I hope that this gets resolved easily ofr you.
Suz

[Jim Scott]

Suz ~

No disrespect taken and no need for an apology for simply offering your experience with The Hartford.  As I stated, we worked there once (I left 15 years ago and my wife is an 'official' employee but hasn't set foot on company premises since 1996).  Rest assured, we don't represent the company.       

Jim

[badbadbrain67]

To tell you guys the truth, I don't expect to be approved for SSD from the horror stories I've heard. In fact, I really didn't want to apply but the Hartford made me. I want to get back to work and I suspect
I will be able to go back before I get approved for SSD so I was really counting on that money from the Hartford to help with my COBRA payments. What gets me is that they are going to keep that money whether
I get approved or not yet I am expected to return their money within 15 days if I do get approved. Where does that money go? Who's pocket? It just doesn't seem right.
Hopefully by next month I'll get my full payment since I have requested it and hope to be approved. The $900 dollars a month they were keeping for the last 3-4 months is theirs I guess.
Next time I'll be more careful when filling out paperwork. My brain is functions much better these days.

[Captain Deb]

Badbad,

Don't these numbnuts know that disability can take YEARS to get?  It took me 5 years and I had a lawyer!!  It took the judge 18 months to decide AFTER my hearing which took  2 years to schedule after my 2nd turn-down.  AND they can screw you out of back payments as well.  I got the first 3 years of my disability payments "disallowed" because I showed a little income from selling some artwork that I had created before I became disabled.  So much for being self-employed!  I wish you much better luck than I had.  The good part is that I am now able to purchase Medicare insurance which has given me much better access to the treatments that keep me going than my expensive insurance ever did.

Capt Deb

PS Sorry I cussed!

[badbadbrain67]

Checked my bank account today and realized that the Hartford only deposited $270.00 again this month. I faxed them the paperwork before they deposited it and I even called them the next day
to make sure they got it and they said that they did and were reviewing it. the next day they deposited the meager amount. I'm out another large chunk of money for the month. on top of that I had to send Cobra over $500
just to get started with them and another payment to them for the month of September. That's over $1000 just like that. I still have to pay rent, utilities, car insurance (for a car I'm not well enough to drive yet), utilities
and whatever other monthly expenses I have.  I had to stop going to therapy because insurance doesn't cover the whole session so I still have to pay out of pocket per visit.
I've never asked "why me?" when it came to the tumor (statistically it had to happen to someone and I guess that someone was me). I went into both surgeries bravely (shunt and tumor removal) and just accepted the
aftermath of that.  I had no time to feel sorry for myself. I just needed to get better.
This thing with the Hartford however, is doing me in. . I can't call them until Tuesday because of the holiday and I'm stressing out. I know that I'm just a case number to them and they are only interested in the
improvement of my health so that they can stop payments all together but come on guys.
I'm not paying my medical bills at the moment but I know that I can only avoid them for so long. There goes my credit score.
Jim Scott, I think I will be giving you wife a call for some advice on the inner workings of the Hartford to see if there is any way to get that money back. Like I said before, it doesn't seem fair that they expect me
to pay back all their money within 15 days IF I get approved but I get none of the money they have kept for the last four months if I don't get approved.
Sorry about the rant but I'm am a bundle of nerves wrapped in a coat of anger topped by a glob of anxiety. I was hoping I didn't have to take my Xanax today but what else could I do?
My damaged and still healing brain is having a little trouble dealing with this. I feel like going fetal sticking my thumb in my mouth and crying in some corner of the house. I realize that will solve nothing.
One of the things I never do is splurge on myself. I thought that after everything I went through this year, I deserved to buy myself something just for me. I can't even do that now.
Please don't think that I'm some crazy lunatic, I'm just really frustrated and a little sad. The money the Hartford kept may not seem like a lot of money to some people, but when you don't have a source of income
and are pretty much unemployable at the moment, it overwhelms.
Again sorry for the long rant and I don't even know if I'm making any sense but I had to get it out. ARGH!!!!! (

[Jim Scott]

Victor ~

I'm sorry to learn that your problems with your income protection plan from The Hartford are continuing.  Of course you're frustrated.  Who wouldn't be?  No need to be contrite about ranting because that's part of why these forums exist.  I gave you our telephone number and the best times to call my wife, Tina, regarding your difficulties with your income protection plan.   No guarantees - but she may be able to advise you because she is quite knowledgeable about insurance and does know how The Hartford 'works'.  I'll tell her to expect your call next week.  Meanwhile, try to indulge yourself in small ways (eat some ice cream, chocolate, rent a favorite movie, whatever) and remain as optimistic as one can be in your situation.  This will work out. 

Jim

[badbadbrain67]

Thank you Jim and I am doing those little things that bring me comfort. Unfortunately, those little comforts mostly come in the form of food. When I'm depressed or anxious I eat. And let me tell you I've been eating.
Unfortunately in the months following my surgery I wasn't very active (as you might have guessed). Before surgery I had lost about 30 lbs from the constant vomiting and lack of hunger. After surgery and during inactivity I put all the weight back on plus another fifteen to boot. Now I can't seem to get rid of it and this anxiety with all the paperwork and red tape is not helping. But hey, it's better than opening a bottle of booze to solve my problems.
I could easily fall into that but I refuse to do deal with it in that manner. Well, that and the fact that I can't afford any type of addiction because I don't have the money to pay for it thanks to the Hartford.
Anyway, there is not much I can do about it this weekend so I decided to be at peace with it and just pig out. There is a Chaldean festival being held here in El Cajon this weekend and I'm sure they'll have yummy food.
I will drown my sorrows in it and forget about my problems over the weekend. Advice taken!!!