Author Topic: A National Public Health Service in the USA?  (Read 6872 times)

Kit W

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Re: A National Public Health Service in the USA?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2009, 06:03:32 pm »
hi all,

It's great to see that members are reading this topic and putting their 'two penneth in' as we say in England whilst keeping responses civil.

Thank you all

Kit
Don't let jealousy get a hold of you. If it does it will ruin the rest of your life.

My mind often wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!
Do I look like I care!

5cm+ AN removed 9/11/08. Dr Tairq Javed. Kennestone Hospital, Marietta, GA

Kaybo

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Re: A National Public Health Service in the USA?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2009, 07:05:53 pm »
All I have to say is that I just got the bill for when Kendie busted her chin open at Grandma's and had to go to the ER...thank goodness that I just have to pay the co-pay because the bill was for $1305.00.  They used super glue...you know what?  Next time I am running down to Wal Mart - super glue is MUCH cheaper there!!  ;D

K
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Janet

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Re: A National Public Health Service in the USA?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2009, 07:13:06 pm »
I worked at a large hospital for 23 years. Some of my co-workers were from Canada & Sweden. I also have toured Russia's healthcare system. (Ukraine and Belarus too)

Here are a few comments from professionals that were from countries with nationalized healthcare.

Swedish MD (OB/GYN) - In operating room, after patient was anesthetized.  "This patient never would have have been allowed this surgery in Sweden. She would have been told there was nothing they could do."
 
Swedish MD - I am bringing my mother over here for surgery otherwise she won't get it.

Canadian nurse -  You don't know how lucky you are. The healthcare in the US is so much better. 

Canadian nurse - We come down here to work (traveling nurses) because the working conditions are a lot better. The patient load (how many patients you are responsible for at one time) is too much and it is dangerous.

I went to Russia just after the Soviet Union collapsed on an exchange to visit their healthcare system. No antibiotics unless the patent's family bought them on the black market with American dollars. Cancer patients were told they didn't have cancer so they wouldn't lose hope. The hospitals that I toured look phoney and the rooms looked like mock-ups! I am not exaggerating. It was hard to believe what I saw.  It was a while ago but I remember how some people thought the Soviet Union took care of its people. I didn't see evidence of it.
Surgical removal of 1 cm x .8 cm x .6 AN on 4/2004.

Kit W

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Re: A National Public Health Service in the USA?
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2009, 11:14:37 am »
The National health Service in the UK is funded by taxation in the form of a National Health Insurance deduction from your wages. It is currently calculated at 9% of your gross wage.  But, not all of the 9% goes to the NHS.

At one time I used to work in the life assurance industry in the UK and during our training we were shown how the government breaks down the 9% into different areas. Listed below are just the ones I can remember:

1. Unemployment payments to the unemployed.

2. State pensions to the retired.

3. Disabled benefit for the disabled.

4. Payments to run the NHS.

5. Refunds to people who have contracted out of the State Earnings Related Pension Scheme (SERPS). It means the government only gets to keep 7% instead of the full 9% the balance going into a private pension fund.

I sure there are some I'm missing out. but these are the ones I remember. You also have to pay tax too but that is way too complicated to go into here. All I'll say is that your net income each time you get paid is roughly 35% less than the gross.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 04:03:07 pm by Kit W »
Don't let jealousy get a hold of you. If it does it will ruin the rest of your life.

My mind often wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!
Do I look like I care!

5cm+ AN removed 9/11/08. Dr Tairq Javed. Kennestone Hospital, Marietta, GA

Jim Scott

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Re: A National Public Health Service in the USA?
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2009, 02:33:14 pm »
Ken ~

After viewing the previous responses to your initial post and noting that they are avoiding the divisive political aspects of this issue and after reading David's salient post (that reflects my views) I'll venture to add a few comments of my own. 

I concur with Steve that we don't really have a 'health care' problem in the U.S. as much as we have a health care cost problem.  A lot of folks want 2009-level health care at 1980 prices - and that's not feasible.  Medicare and Medicaid (simultaneously enacted in 1965) have contributed to the problem due to their low reimbursement policies that force private insurers to pay the difference to doctors and hospitals (their operating costs and subsequent fees don't go down) which raises medical insurance premiums because no company can operate for long without a profit, which, these days, is around 3% for HMO's.  Hardly a windfall.   These government-run entities (Medicare, Medicaid) are the best example of why 'nationalized', 'universal' or 'socialized' health care - under any name - would be a disaster.  In 1966, Medicare cost 3 billion and was projected to cost 12 billion by 1990.  Medicare actually cost 107 billion in 1990.  Medicare now has 34 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities.  To cover that, the Medicare tax rate will have to rise from it's current rate of 2.9% to almost 14%.  When Medicare began in 1966, the monthly premium due from Medicare recipients was $3.00.  Today, it's almost $100. - and Medicare is still grossly underfunded.  For every dollar paid in premiums, the government pays $3.  Thus, the 'unfunded liabilities' that assume future demands on Medicare that are not funded with higher taxes.

We often read or hear about the '47 million uninsured' in America, meaning that at any given time, 47 million people don't have medical insurance protection.  Unfortunately, that is a half-truth.  Yes, some 47 million people in the U.S. may not carry medical insurance on a given day but 27%, some 12.6 million — aren't even citizens. Another 20% of the uninsured are only uninsured for an average of 4 months at any given time.  They are usually between jobs.  Some 38% of all the uninsured have incomes well over the national average of $48,000.  They simply chose not to buy medical insurance coverage. When you look into the reality behind the '47 million uninsured' headline used to make those of us with insurance feel guilty, the real dynamics of this alleged 'crisis' become a bit clearer.  In addition, Medicaid was enacted to cover the indigent so the cry that '47 million don't have access to health care' is a fallacy.  Anyone can receive medical attention at almost any ER in America, with or without prior insurance coverage.  Hospitals have people especially hired to help those receiving medical care and without insurance apply for federal, state and local benefits that help pay hospital and doctor costs.  However, some states have a problem with undocumented people (illegal aliens) that do not qualify for any benefits due to their illegal status yet receive necessary medical attention.  The hospitals 'absorb' the unpaid expense and because most are not charities, have to raise their prices to cover it.  Eventually, insurance companies pay the higher rates - and raise our premiums.  Many of these hospitals that treated large numbers of illegal (undocumented) aliens (foreigners) have gone out of business because they could not charge enough to insured patients to offset the huge cost of treating so many uninsured illegal aliens without any medical insurance and unqualified to obtain any government assistance, in most cases.  That is a tragedy.  However, 'universal' health care insurance would not cover illegal aliens, nor should it.   I'm well aware that we all need some form of 'catastrophic' medical insurance.  My AN surgery cost about $100,000.  Who has that kind of money?  Still, while we may all need some form of medical insurance, if we could control what we pay for it by the prudent use of doctors and medical facilities, it would empower the consumer, instead of empowering government. 

The current 'nationalized health care' package is still being shaped and debated in Washington so I cannot make assumptions at this point.  However, with the history of how government programs constantly expand (I don't object - but as an example: Medicare began covering disabled people in 1972) and how costs are usually wildly underestimated makes me highly skeptical of any health insurance 'reform' instituted by government, under any political party.  The U.S. simply cannot afford another multi-trillion-dollar 'program' to 'reform' health care, which is excellent, thank you.  It's how we pay for our health care that is the real issue.  I concur with Steve's assessment that taking better care of ourselves is crucial, as well as being more responsible for how our health care money is spent.  Whether that is with Medical Savings Accounts or some other scheme, it would beat another government monstrosity that would inevitably reduce the quality and access to health care while costing even more than we pay, now.  Most of us like our medical care and want everyone to have something similar.  However, expanding the government's role in medical care would only injure the current high quality of that care, introduce care rationing and waiting lists while limiting our options and costing far more than we pay now, while still not 'covering' every person in America.  I prefer the free enterprise system approach that holds the consumer (us) responsible for seeking and finding the most cost-effective approach to their health care while paying for much of it, themselves, when possible.  When the patient has the option of going elsewhere with his money, doctors and hospitals will compete for the 'business'.  As long as third parties (insurance companies) pay most of the bills, that doesn't happen.  A huge, hideously expensive, option-closing 'single-payer' government-run system doesn't hold any appeal for me, but then, it may for others.  I'm forced to be on Medicare (Blue Cross dropped me when I turned 65)  but I'm not happy about it.  My private medical insurance costs the same as I'm paying for the government insurance and I feel I have fewer options as many doctors are dropping Medicare and don't accept it as payment.  'Socialized medicine' hasn't worked well in other countries with much smaller, less diverse populations than the U.S.  The rush to enact a so-called 'reform' measure that, in effect, will have the government running the health care insurance business (pushing out private insurers in no time) is unnecessary and makes me suspicious of the necessity for a gigantic bill that no elected official actually reads being hurried through the congressional labyrinth based on false claims of a 'health care crisis'. 

I don't chose to debate this issue, I'm just adding my thoughts to others and hoping they won't be misunderstood or misrepresented.  As AN patients, the future of health care is a fair issue for discussion, assuming we can keep the politics, parties and personalities out of it.  I believe I've succeeded in doing that.  My objections are beyond party or ideology.  I thank those who've previously contributed to the discussion.  What actually happens will be another topic of interest in the near future, I'm certain. 

Jim
4.5 cm AN diagnosed 5/06.  Retrosigmoid surgery 6/06.  Follow-up FSR completed 10/06.  Tumor shrinkage & necrosis noted on last MRI.  Life is good. 

Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is.  The way we cope with it is what makes the difference.

stoneaxe

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Re: A National Public Health Service in the USA?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2009, 10:00:58 pm »
The idea of yet another giant federal program like this scares the heck out of me. They've done such a great job running these types of programs.... ::)

I read a great comment about this just today. It suggested that since this is supposedly such a great thing that the President, and all members of the House and Senate and their families be required to have this as their only form of health insurance and that they only have access to healthcare that will be allowed within the program. I think we would see this die a quick death if that were the case. I've felt that that kind of rational thought should apply to all programs. If they are to force things upon us they should have to live with it also. I wonder if Teddy Kennedy would be so gung ho over this if he had to wait for treatment of his cancer?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 10:03:53 pm by stoneaxe »
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