Author Topic: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's  (Read 12625 times)

JHager

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2005, 10:49:52 am »
Hey Sandy,

Glad to hear you're checking other options too!  While I'm not (you couldn't pay me enough!) a doctor, you sound pretty ideal for radiosurgery - glad you're looking into it.

If you've read more than a handful of posts on this site, you know the general consensus of patients: doctors will promote the options they are most comfortable and experienced with.  My own father is a surgeon, and he agrees with that statement 100%.  It's human nature, but not helpful when you're looking for the best treatment option and the two main ones are so different.

I'm a surgery candidate myself, having translab for a 3cm AN in three weeks.  But I was glad to have all the cards on the table, so to speak, before I made my decision.  Check out this thread, and the "House Ear Institute" thread under "Microsurgical Options" if you haven't already done so - lots of info there.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Josh
3.5 cm right AN.  Surgery 11/7/05, modified translab.  As recovered as I'd ever hoped to be.

Mark

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 676
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2005, 12:50:18 pm »
DB,


Since Radiosurgery in general is highly computerized the ability of each center to deliver consistently good treatment is very high. In terms of CK, I know that Miami, Sinai and Georgetown have all had the machine for at least 3-4 years so they should be very experienced.

CC, another poster recently shared some of the exchange on CK that she had with Dr. Chang at Stanford. The listing of all the responses to her questions is in her post in the radiosurgery section of this board, but to the question of expereince and human involvement in delivering treatment, Dr. Chang's response was:

"The choice of the positioning for each beam is chosen by the computer.  The doctors input the tumor volume, and the computer calculates the optimal beam positions based upon the millions of possible iterations.  The beam positions are not chosen by a human, but by the computer, so there is not any human input as to the choice of beam positions, and therefore nothing that gets delegated since it is all done by the computer."

Hope that helps

Mark
CK for a 2 cm AN with Dr. Chang/ Dr. Gibbs at Stanford
November 2001

DistressedDB

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • Deb's site
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2005, 02:34:28 pm »
Thanks Mark!

I have been reading all the posts as well.  I was thinking Miami might be a good choice, and am glad to see the information on how long they had their machines.  I had read what CC had posted based upon conversation with Dr. Chang.  Stanford is an option, but think I'd like to go closer...

Will keep all posted!
1.5cm X .09 cm - CyberKnife November 2005
April MRI shows small growth of 1.5 cm X 1.0 cm

DistressedDB

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • Deb's site
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2005, 02:41:59 pm »
Sandy,

You're doing all the right things...like you, I was diagnosed 5 months ago, and I'm not one to let things sit.  I'm also a professional, I am President of a consulting firm, and at 48, look and feel great and plan to stay that way!  The folks on this site have been great and have provided not only a rich stream of information, but also great encouragement. 

I have several relatives and friends also researching information. My cousin's husband has a surgeon relative that he's consulted on my behalf, and he asked why I hadn't considered CK - I have no symptoms other then Tinitus, so I'd be a great candidate.  My business partners father-in-law is the head of Surgery at Emory and he's going to check with him.  Everything I'm seeing, hearing and reading is leading me to CK.  I will be getting more information in the next week, I'd be glad to share anything I find out with you if you're interested.  At this point, I'm feeling best and most reassured about CK - as Josh pointed out to me, surgery should be my last option...I believe he is absolutely correct.

Best of luck! 
1.5cm X .09 cm - CyberKnife November 2005
April MRI shows small growth of 1.5 cm X 1.0 cm

wanderer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2005, 07:08:39 pm »
from the national cancer institute:

What is radiation therapy?

Radiation therapy (also called radiotherapy, x-ray therapy, or irradiation) is the use of a certain type of energy (called ionizing radiation) to kill cancer cells and shrink tumors. Radiation therapy injures or destroys cells in the area being treated (the “target tissue�) by damaging their genetic material, making it impossible for these cells to continue to grow and divide. Although radiation damages both cancer cells and normal cells, most normal cells can recover from the effects of radiation and function properly. The goal of radiation therapy is to damage as many cancer cells as possible, while limiting harm to nearby healthy tissue.


Still not the info I had but still interesting.   

okiesandy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2005, 08:58:28 pm »
Distressed,

I had 6 mo. MRI. The AN has grown and has become cystic. I am told I need to make up my mind. No more watch and wait. Have you heard how CK is for cystic AN's? The radio oncologist here says I should be fine with CK. He has only done 10 CK around 60 GK. for AN's
My neurotologist says if it is cystic it is nothing to fool around with and why take a chance on something that is not going to get it out. Back to confusion again. Seems like every time I go to the Dr. it is something new.   How is the research going?
Cyberknife 1/2006
Clinton Medbery III & Mary K. Gumerlock
St Anthony's Hospital
Oklahoma City, OK
Name of Tumor: Ivan (may he rest in peace)

jamie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2005, 09:11:05 pm »
from the national cancer institute:

What is radiation therapy?

Radiation therapy (also called radiotherapy, x-ray therapy, or irradiation) is the use of a certain type of energy (called ionizing radiation) to kill cancer cells and shrink tumors. Radiation therapy injures or destroys cells in the area being treated (the “target tissue�) by damaging their genetic material, making it impossible for these cells to continue to grow and divide. Although radiation damages both cancer cells and normal cells, most normal cells can recover from the effects of radiation and function properly. The goal of radiation therapy is to damage as many cancer cells as possible, while limiting harm to nearby healthy tissue.


Still not the info I had but still interesting.

AN cells are not normal. If they were, radiosurgery would not control over 95% of them. AN cells are abnormal, just like cancer cells only they turn over more slowly, they do not invade other tissues, and they do not spread. But the cells in benign tumors are not normal, or none of us would be posting on this board, it wouldn't even exist.

Neoplasm, or tumor, tissue composed of cells that grow in an abnormal way. Normal tissue is growth-limited, i.e., cell reproduction is equal to cell death. Feedback controls limit cell division after a certain number of cells have developed, allowing for tissue repair but not expansion. Tumor cells are less responsive to these restraints and can proliferate to the point where they disrupt tissue architecture, distort the flow of nutrients, and otherwise do damage. Tumors may be benign or malignant.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/n1/neoplasm.asp   

Radiation therapy works by destroying cells, either directly or by interfering with cell reproduction using high-energy X-rays, electron beams or radioactive isotopes. When a radiated cell attempts to divide and reproduce itself, it fails to do so and dies in the attempt.

Normal cells are able to repair the effects of radiation better than are malignant and other abnormal cells.


http://www.healthcastle.com/radiation.shtml
« Last Edit: October 21, 2005, 11:51:15 am by jamie »
CyberKnife radiosurgery at Barrow Neurological Institute; 2.3 cm lower cranial nerve schwannoma

jamie

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2005, 09:16:51 pm »
Distressed,

I had 6 mo. MRI. The AN has grown and has become cystic. I am told I need to make up my mind. No more watch and wait. Have you heard how CK is for cystic AN's? The radio oncologist here says I should be fine with CK. He has only done 10 CK around 60 GK. for AN's
My neurotologist says if it is cystic it is nothing to fool around with and why take a chance on something that is not going to get it out. Back to confusion again. Seems like every time I go to the Dr. it is something new.   How is the research going?

Here is a series of MRI scans of a cystic AN following radiosurgery:



FIG 5. Serial contrast-enhanced axial T1-weighted images (450/17/5) in a 64-year-old woman show enlargement of the cystic component and transient loss of contrast enhancement in the solid component at 3 months; regression of the cystic component, slight enlargement and recovery of contrast enhancement of the solid component, and slight regression of the overall tumor at 18 months; further enlargement of the solid component, no change in the cystic component, and regression of the overall tumor at 24 months; and remarkable regression of the tumor at 50 months. GKRS indicates gamma knife radiosurgery; mos., months after gamma knife radiosurgery

http://www.ajnr.org/cgi/content/figsonly/21/8/1540

« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 09:19:53 pm by jamie »
CyberKnife radiosurgery at Barrow Neurological Institute; 2.3 cm lower cranial nerve schwannoma

okiesandy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2005, 05:40:58 pm »
I do like that on done at 50 months.

Sandy
Cyberknife 1/2006
Clinton Medbery III & Mary K. Gumerlock
St Anthony's Hospital
Oklahoma City, OK
Name of Tumor: Ivan (may he rest in peace)

okiesandy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2005, 07:15:58 pm »
Hi All,

I went to see Dr. Clinton Medbery today. He answers questions on the Cyberknife patient support forum. He is really nice guy. Above all extremly honest. He does not see a thing wrong with surgery. However, he thought I would do well with either cyberknife or gammaknife or surgery if I want. He does not think the tumor is necessarly cystic and said my last MRI is is not very clear and taken from a different angle and it would be hard to tell just how much it had grown. Could be the 3 mm in 6 months I was told or more or less. there is just not a way to tell how much it had grown, just that it had grown. He was not nearly as down on surgery as the neurotologists are on radiosurgery. He told me up front the down side of each treatment and how they were done. He is also very willing to listen. He kept my films to present to a panel and will get back to me with their opinion as a body. I didn't come out of his office feeling beat up as I have with other doctors.
Cyberknife 1/2006
Clinton Medbery III & Mary K. Gumerlock
St Anthony's Hospital
Oklahoma City, OK
Name of Tumor: Ivan (may he rest in peace)

ljedwards

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2005, 10:45:26 pm »
Okiesandy:

 Is Medbery in Oklahoma?

Jeanne
ljedwards
GK 1998  left side 2.4 x 3.5cm
Midwest GK Center
Kansas City, MO

Mark

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 676
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2005, 12:24:54 am »
Yes, Dr. Medberry is at St Anthony hospital in Oklahoma city

attached is his profile

Clinton A. Medbery, III, M.D.
Medical Director
St. Anthony Hospital Cyberknife Center
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

Email: buddy@swrads.org

Patient appointments:
Phone: (405) 272-7311
Fax: (405) 236-3888

Dr. Medbery is board certified in both medical oncology and radiation oncology. He specializes in radiosurgery of both intracranial and body cancers and benign tumors. Research interests include the use of the Cyberknife as a non-invasive and rapid treatment of prostate cancer and pancreatic cancer. He also is an expert in the radiosurgical treatment of metastatic disease in the brain, with an experience of several hundred treated cases.

CK for a 2 cm AN with Dr. Chang/ Dr. Gibbs at Stanford
November 2001

Ned

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2005, 08:08:11 am »
What is the difference in CK and FSR using the Peacock method?  Is one better than the other?
ITwo years ago when I was doing my investigations I remember a study performed in the UK that made a remarkable statement, that there were no completely blind, unbiased medical papers on the each of the treatment options.  Has this changed? If I recall they had reviewed every paper submittted up to a certain date and ranked them using some universal system as to accuracy.
2003   1.5cmX1,6cmx1.3cm
FSR Sara Cannon Cancer Center  Nashville
2006  1.1 cmX1.2cmX .9cm

Mark

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 676
Re: Effectiveness of radiation on AN's
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2005, 09:46:01 am »
Ned,

I beleive the Peacock system is an IMRT system ( Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy) whereas the CK isan active targeting SRS system. Both are Linac and both are very effective in treating Skull based tumors. Here is a one discussion of there advantages and disadvantages:


Shaped Beam Systems
The recent development of IMRT or Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy has added another dimension to multi-fraction radiation therapy. These linac-based technologies use computer-controlled "beam-shaping" to do a better job of conforming the radiation dose to the shape of the tumor or other lesion. This form of advanced radiation therapy can be utilized at virtually any location in the body. IMRT technology enables a mechanical device (called a multi-leaf collimator) that is typically attached to most modern medical linear accelerators, to dynamically reshape the outlines and intensity of the radiation field during cancer treatment. When combined with sophisticated planning software, IMRT fits the dose of radiation to a target much better than conventional radiation therapy, and thereby minimizes the volume of surrounding normal tissue that is injured by treatment. While it appears that IMRT may produce fewer side-effects than conventional radiation therapy, IMRT is not as spatially precise as radiosurgery. Because of this imprecision, a full course of IMRT treatment is typically administered over multiple treatment sessions (typically 20-30+). Common brand names include X-Knife (Radionics) and Novalis (Brain Lab). Advantages of Shaped-Beam systems include:

   1. The capacity to treat most regions of the body with IMRT
   2. When coupled to an invasive stereotactic frame, precision targeting for brain tumors that approaches, but does not equal, that of the Gamma Knife or CyberKnife.
   3. The capacity to more accurately target extracranial (non-brain) tumors than standard radiation therapy
   4. An ability to deliver fractionated intracranial or extracranial treatment

Disadvantages of the Shaped Beam systems include:

   1. The need for an invasive head frame (similar to the Gamma Knife) to assure treatment accuracy when used for brain radiosurgery (single fraction)
   2. Less treatment accuracy when multiple fractions are used to treat areas of the brain where the use of an invasive head frame is impractical
   3. A significantly lesser degree of targeting accuracy when treating extracranial tumors compared to brain radiosurgery
   4. Treatment accuracy is degraded further when the target moves during radiation delivery from either natural breathing or patient movement

 
CyberKnife System
The CyberKnife System is an SRS system utilizing contemporary technology that is designed to be the most accurate and flexible tool available for aggressive therapeutic irradiation. The CyberKnife was designed to address the limitations of frame-based SRS systems and expands the application of radiosurgery to sites outside of the head. It is the only system to incorporate a miniature linear accelerator mounted on a flexible, robotic arm. An image-guidance system that can track target location during treatment also enables the CyberKnife to offer superior targeting accuracy without the need for the invasive head frame. While Gamma Knife and linac-based systems can perform radiosurgery in the brain, true radiosurgery for areas outside of the brain is difficult if not impossible to perform with these systems. For more detailed information on the CyberKnife, see CyberKnife Overview.

Advantages of the CyberKnife include:

   1. No invasive head frame or other rigid immobilization device is required
   2. The ability to perform radiosurgery (1-5 fractions) on targets throughout the body, not just the brain
   3. Precise targeting (within 1 mm) of selected lesions in the brain and body
   4. A unique ability to provide real time monitoring of the treated target throughout treatment using an advanced image-guidance system
   5. A unique ability to correct during treatment for limited target motion (e.g. due to small patient movements)
   6. The capacity to easily perform staged radiosurgery

Disadvantages of the CyberKnife include:

   1. The need for placement of very small markers (fiducials) via a needle for the treatment of targets outside of the head
   2. Compared to other radiosurgical devices, treatment takes longer when multiple tumors are ablated during the same treatment session.
CK for a 2 cm AN with Dr. Chang/ Dr. Gibbs at Stanford
November 2001