Author Topic: Hello. New Member Introduction  (Read 9250 times)

cherrypiper

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 08:50:05 pm »
welcome in to the best little site for AN info around. I'm 2 years past my surgery and i see several of the other more senior folks in here telling you the details.

Know this , there is a lot of support in here. some of us had tinnitus and single side deafness b4 our diagnosis. some of us didn't. some of us weren't scared UNTIL surgery got close (that was me) :)

these are rarely cancerous and are luckily really slow growing. i went from my original diagnosis in Jul 07 to Dec. 07 b4 surgery and it hadn't grown much at all.

any question by the way is ok to ask. These folks have helped me a lot since my surgery.

welcome in
10 mm x 2.4mm surgery date 12/03/07

glad to be here

notnowkato

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 12:38:16 am »
Hi CF,

I can empathise with the feeling of just wanting to do something. My AN is larger than yours (2.9cm) and I was diagnosed in November, but the surgeons have also told me to go away and enjoy the holidays with my family and not think about scheduling surgery until February.

In some ways this has been frustrating, but one major positive of this for me has been that it has given me, and my family and friends, time and space to learn about AN and understand more about where this journey may lead next. I think this would have been more difficult if I was trying to do this and trying to organise the logistics of the surgery all at once.

Anyway I hope that the doctor was able to answer your questions and that you are able to schedule treatment for a date that you are comfortable with.

Kate

CF

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2010, 10:13:55 pm »
Summary
Hey folks. An update today - met with the radiation doctor to obtain the alternate POV (vs the surgery approach). I told the doc I was hoping he could talk me out of the surgery in favor of radiation  ;). FYI this doctor was clear that he generally preferred radiation for treatments, however after discussing with me my situation, he agreed that surgery was the better option. I was able to talk philosophically with this doctor, which I appreciated very much. He presented my with an objective argument, for an against, and below were the key variables that would better suggest surgery as the option. This is what I had thought originally and I'm glad the reasoning was consistent.

Why, for MY PERSONAL (and rare) circumstances, that Surgery seems to be the better approach

This was based on two key reasons (summarized below).

1. My vestibular imbalance (lowered quality of life) as key "driver" in my decision making, as opposed to hearing loss being the driver. He indicated that because my hearing is relatively intact, and that it's my balance that is "the problem", it would make sense to go with the surgery as that is more conducive to resolving the issue.

2. My age (ie, I'm a younger patient)
The rationale is that since I'm much younger (I'm 44), it would seem a more "conclusive" treatment might be best. Conclusive in the fact that the surgery is intended to REMOVE the tumor, as opposed to radiation which is not conclusive in that respect. Since I'm a younger patient, I have more "living years" ahead of me that seem to highlight more the need for conclusiveness in my treatment option. If I went with radiation, I would have that much more uncertainty spread over a much longer period of "living years". In contrast, if I were much older (say 72), then clearly radiation might be the better option. I would have much less "living years" and also I would probably be less physically receptive to surgery.

But here's a wrench that might make watch-and-see a better approach
He also mentioned he had one patient who was in similar circumstances, and after taking a steroid treatment, the apparent inflammation of the vestibular nerve was reduced such that his vestibular symptoms were eliminated, and has been so for 9 months as of date. So, before I opt for the surgery, I'm going to see if I can benefit from this week long steroid treatment to resolve the only issue that brought this whole thing to the surface: my balance. If my balance can be given back to me, then there is no reason to commit to surgery now but rather to enter the watch and wait mode ..... is the new approach I'm considering. I consider this due to an assessment of risk and timing .... the risks can be managed, and the timing is basically later rather than sooner, depending on triggers that will / may eventually surface and dictate I have surgery.

TRIGGERS THAT COULD MOVE ME FROM WATCH-AND-WAIT TO SURGERY

a- Loss of hearing: if the steroids work, then there's no reason to "rush" into surgery, is where I'm landing now. Basically, with the balance problem solved, it would have been as if I never had a problem .... would have never gotten the MRI. So, watch and wait would seem appropriate. If I then begin, at some later time, to experience hearing loss, that would trigger me to consider that surgery is now worth revisiting. This all assumes I aim to preserve my hearing via surgery. It can also be argued that WITH surgery, I accelerate the possibility of hearing loss. So is it better to initiate that possibility with surgery, or with no surgery but through the progression of the tumor if left alone (assuming its progression does, in fact, impact my hearing in 1, 2, 5 years?)

b- Size of tumor: Obviously I'll be monitoring the toomah and of course IF .... and only IF .... it reaches a dangerous size, would that trigger revisiting the surgery. For sure I would need it. But until then .... why would I .... if I have my balance, and I have my hearing .... or even if I'm willing to lose my hearing because of the tumor OVER TIME .... vs. risk losing it sooner with the surgery.

BTW the doc said that my balance issues should not be getting any worse over time .... that what I experience now is probably the worst of it assuming I entered the watch and wait mode ....

SUMMARY OF DECISION TREE / THOUGHT PROCESS
Anyways, not sure if I've articulated this thought process clearly enough, but the key decision points I think are:

See if steroids solve my balance problem.
- If not, then plan for surgery
- If so, then enter watch and wait mode (hearing loss and size of tumor as "triggers")
>> If hearing starts to go over time (within the next 1, 5, or 10 years ..... no more?)
>> >> Decide if I want to TRY TO preserve it via surgery but risk losing it at that time
>> >> or decide if I want to just let it go over time, and risk losing it that way
>> If size of toomah is such that it is dangerous, then get surgery

 :)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 10:23:04 pm by CF »

leapyrtwins

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2010, 10:29:19 pm »
CF -

sounds like you've done your homework  :)  Very thorough and analytical research.

I may have missed this in reading your post, but what about the idea of having surgery now (mid fossa) since your hearing is intact so you don't risk losing it through the watching & waiting period?

My thought is that by the time you'd notice a hearing loss it may be too late to save it.  

As much as I love my BAHA, given the choice I'd have rather kept my hearing.  In my case, hearing loss was one of the symptoms that lead to my diagnosis and mid fossa wasn't a choice for me.

Just playing the Devil's advocate here,

Jan

« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 10:31:01 pm by leapyrtwins »
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

CF

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2010, 10:42:29 pm »
Hey, Jan. Good point. Here's my thoughts.

Right now, what's really on my mind is my balance. I want my balance back so bad, that I'm even willing to lose my hearing over it. If I can save my hearing, I will try whatever method will increase my odds (right now both docs are recommending the retro-sigmoid).

The way I see it .... my hearing today is fine. Again, it's my balance I really have priority over. But if I need to consider hearing, I'm thinking I can potentially lose it in one of the following ways:

a- lose it during surgery
b- lose it over time

"a-" above may happen as soon as I get under the knife (whether it be retro or mid fossa)! "b-" may happen many years from now ... or tomorrow. Right now it seems the latter might be a better gamble, under the premise of .... if it ain't broke, don't fix it! If it does start to break, then let's fix it at that time (and at the same time open up and entertain the risks of breaking it more anyway with surgery) .... but until then it does not sit right with me I guess. Doc said typically it should have been gone by now (by his experience) and it's "odd" that it isn't. I'll take that oddity as a sign of hope, even if it's just to defer the inevitable!

leapyrtwins

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2010, 06:56:07 am »
Good answer, CF.  Seems like you've thought about everything - so the time is right to make your decision.

I'm hopeful the steroids will work for you. 

Please keep us updated,

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

CHD63

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2010, 07:28:48 am »
CF ......

Just adding a thought here .....  Since ANs (officially vestibular schwannomas) grow from the outer covering of the vestibular nerve, the balance of AN patients is almost always involved.  Because of our redundant system (with another hopefully good vestibular nerve on the other side), the brain learns to function using only the good side when the AN nerve is removed during surgery.  The problem comes before treatment when the brain begins receiving poor signals from the AN damaged vestibular nerve and it does not know what to do with them.  In these cases, removal of the poorly functioning nerve actually speeds up the process of balance recovery.  Much depends upon the exact location of the tumor, how long it has been growing, and how large it is.

The length of time it takes for the brain to adjust is very individual but from the sounds of your case, you may have a situation of scrambled, poor signals coming from your AN side ..... and thus, your brain does not know how to adjust to this.

..... just my thoughts.

Clarice
Right MVD for trigeminal neuralgia, 1994, Pittsburgh, PA
Left retrosigmoid 2.6 cm AN removal, February, 2008, Duke U
Tumor regrew to 1.3 cm in February, 2011
Translab AN removal, May, 2011 at HEI, Friedman & Schwartz
Oticon Ponto Pro abutment implant at same time; processor added August, 2011

moe

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2010, 12:39:00 pm »
Hi CF,
No real input here, just glad to see that you are looking at ALL options.
Let us know how you feel after the steroids. This is THE hardest part of the AN journey-making that decision..
I can feel your uncertainty and ambivalence on all treatments, but the answer will come and you will feel SO much better!
I cannot imagine the balance issues being so severe, how frustrating. Just try to keep walking, and try balance exercises.
If you opt for surgery, I would say just get r done! Get the booger out. Your other side WILL compensate with balance issues.
Good luck as you continue this difficult part of the 'Journey.
Maureen
06/06-Translab 3x2.5 vascular L AN- MAMC,Tacoma WA
Facial nerve cut,reanastomosed.Tarsorrhaphy
11/06. Gold weight,tarsorrhaphy reversed
01/08- nerve transposition-(12/7) UW Hospital, Seattle
5/13/10 Gracilis flap surgery UW for smile restoration :)
11/10/10 BAHA 2/23/11 brow lift/canthoplasty

Pooter

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2010, 01:54:27 pm »
CF,

No major comments as it seems like you've thought this through quite a bit..  Let me add that I'm with Jan and others in saying that if you postpone surgery until AFTER you experience hearing problems then you'll be too late (generally speaking) to save it.  From what I've gathered from people over that last 20 months or so is that whatever level of hearing you have before treatment (whether radiation or surgery) is the most that you can hope for after treatment.  So, I agree that having surgery now increases the liklihood that hearing will be lost soon rather than later, I don't think it's right to assume that you can save it after you start experiencing a loss.  Like Jan said, by the time you realize that hearing has been affected, it's too late to save it generally.

If you go into your decision tree with a slight modification; i.e. that if you experience hearing loss, then hearing preservation attempt options have now exhausted, then you'll be fine with the approach you're taking.  I just disagree with the premise that you can postpone surgery and save the hearing once you start experiencing a loss..  For me (and likely others as well) that my hearing loss was so gradual over time that I didn't notice it and then I woke up one day and couldn't hear.  The "loss" that you'd be waiting for will likely be sudden and permanent.  If hearing preservation is the goal, then surgery sooner rather than later gives you the best shot at that.  But, as you say, you also run the risk of hearing loss sooner rather than later.  Risk vs Reward.

My $0.02 worth...  Carry on.  :)

Regards,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

james e

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2010, 04:43:44 pm »
Our story sounds similar. Vertigo was and still is my biggest problem. My doc wrote Zofran, 4mg and that put a stop to the vertigo. Each tablet will last me about 7 hours, and then I wait and see if the vertigo returns. This drug is expensive...60 4mg tablets were $1800.00.


CF

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2010, 09:50:53 pm »
Thx, all, for your thoughtful comments. If you read my one other thread I started, "Success Statistics", ( http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?topic=11352.msg131046#msg131046 ), you can see that the doc is offering a 50% chance of preserving my hearing with the surgery. So the way I see it, I have a much higher chance of preserving my hearing by NOT doing the surgery, well I feel that my chances of preserving my hearing by watching and waiting is greater than 50% ..... no science behind it, just a feeling and something I would rather gamble on.

CDH3, that is an interesting perspective. I can see your point and how I may be able to achieve the balance I want if I proceed with the surgery. It sounds like a great approach, and I am certainly open to it and willing to do it. But first, I want to try the steroids, to see if that works. Additionally, I've been on Atkins for 10 days now (getting in shape for the upcoming potential operation  ;) ), and I've dropped about 10 lbs so far .... not to mention my fatigue has disappeared by at least 99% - no exaggeration. Initially the fatigue and the imbalance were killing me .... fatigue pretty much gone now, and I've been doing some balance exercises. Believe it or not, I feel like my brain is finally compensating (makes sense considering the radiation doctors assertion that this is the WORST my balance will get, which means it can only get better if I "train my brain" with some balance workouts!). So right now, I can still feel a little wobbly, but my work capacity has increased. I would like to give the steroids a shot ..... assuming I can't beat this balance issue with exercise alone! Maybe I'm scared of the surgery and I'm in denial and I've just convinced myself my balance has improved ,,,,,  ??? ;D. I don't think so but I will keep it in mind as I move forward  :).

James e. I googled Zofran and it's an anti-nausea drug. Not sure if it's a steroid? The steroid this doctor described to me was supposed to reduce swelling / inflammation of the vestibular nerve / surrounding area. I don't believe Zofran does that .... also known as Ondansetron, it "reduces the activity of the vagus nerve, which activates the vomiting center in the medulla oblongata, and also blocks serotonin receptors in the chemoreceptor trigger zone. " I'm not really nauseous, dizzy, or technically vertigo .... just have a sense I might topple over sometimes (I never have fallen, like the old weebles toy that wobbles but they don't fall down  :D) I never made it to med school so I could be all wet here ....Once I find out what the drug is I'll post back.

Pooter

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2010, 11:55:48 am »
CF,

So, by doing the surgery there is a 50% chance of saving the hearing.. And you think that just watching and waiting will INCREASE those odds?  Pray tell how do you figure that considering the AN (presumably) is going to grow over time and only cause more effects (including, btw, hearing loss)?  I'm fascinated by that logic..  Please elaborate..

Thanks,
Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

CF

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2010, 05:47:53 pm »
CF,

So, by doing the surgery there is a 50% chance of saving the hearing.. And you think that just watching and waiting will INCREASE those odds? 

lol .... Oh no certainly you misunderstood, my apologies if I was not clear. If I do the surgery, say in one month, I CREATE THE ODDS of a 50% chance to lose my hearing. Obviously if I don't subject myself to that within one month, I don't create those odds. So the question is .... in one month if I do nothing, what odds are there that my hearing is still fine as it is today? No one knows for sure, and what I'm saying is that maybe it's worth the gamble to do nothing (and still have my hearing one month later), than to gamble by having the surgery, and risk (by 50%) I might lose it.. I'm not convinced my hearing will be gone in one month, but I am convinced if I have the surgery, there's a good chance it will be gonzo (a 50% chance).

Hope that makes sense.

Pooter

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2010, 05:55:04 pm »
CF,

That makes more sense...  I would think that it's worth the gamble to do nothing also.  Forgive me, but I don't recall how big your AN is, but if I'm remembering right it's fairly small.  I don't think you have to RUSH treatment (to borrow a phrase from another of your threads), but putting it off UNTIL there's a hearing issue isn't rational thinking because once you discover hearing issues it's too late to save it.

Sorry for the confusion.  :)

Brian
Diagnosed 4/10/08 - 3cm Right AN
12hr retrosig 5/8/08 w/Drs Vrabec and Trask in Houston, Tx
Some facial paralysis post-op but most movement is back, some tinitus.  SSD on right.
Story documented here:  http://briansbrainbooger.blogspot.com/

"I must be having fun all wrong!"  - Roger Creager

leapyrtwins

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Re: Hello. New Member Introduction
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 07:22:36 pm »
Okay, now you guys have me confused  ???

Pooter, CF's AN is 15 mm, which if I remember my metric system stuff correctly is 1.5 cm - not exactly small; more like medium.

My AN was 1.5 cm @ diagnosis but had grown to almost double that by the time I had my surgery approximately 6 weeks later - something to think about CF.

While most ANs are slow growing, some have unexpected rapid growth for no known reason.  And while chances are very good, you won't be like me - you never know.

I guess my point is, don't wait too long to have treatment.

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways