Author Topic: Facial Nerve Issues  (Read 6264 times)

Crazycat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
  • Self-Portrait/ "Friends, Romans, countrymen...."
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 09:33:06 pm »
Wow Moe!

  I have to ask, you mentioned that they cut the facial nerve. Why did they do that? Did they have to do that? Why wasn't it done to me? They left some of mine behind so as not to tamper with the facial nerve. Subsequent MRI scans have shown the residual grown to have shrunk. Even though the facial nerve had become entangled with the growth, I never experienced any facial pain or paralysis either before or after surgery. Strange. I don't know how to explain this.
5cm x 5cm left-side A.N. partially removed via Middle Fossa 9/21/2005 @ Mass General. 
Compounded by hydrocephalus. Shunt installed 8/10/2005.
Dr. Fred Barker - Neurosurgeon and Dr. Michael McKenna - Neurotologist.

moe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2009, 11:01:15 am »
HI Crazycat,
Only thing I can think is that it was such a bloody mess in there, and controlling the bleeding so that I didn't stroke out probably took precedence over "saving the facial nerve." (I lost 2 pints of blood :o )
I asked the surgeon prior to the surgery about just that, and his response was he has never  had to cut the facial nerve. Never say never........
I also never got an exact answer from the doc. But then I didn't pursue this. My situation was extremely CRAZY surrounding this surgery.  (different thread). I had to go back to TX after 6 weeks to be with my kids. Husband was stationed at Bremerton and I was back at home in TX when all this happened. One of those military geographical separation scenario. It was insane.
Anyway, I was just sooo happy to be alive, but really mad they had to cut the nerve.....Life goes on....At least I have no headaches, and the cognitive issues are OK so I'm happy about that.
Always looking at the glass half full ;)
Maureen
06/06-Translab 3x2.5 vascular L AN- MAMC,Tacoma WA
Facial nerve cut,reanastomosed.Tarsorrhaphy
11/06. Gold weight,tarsorrhaphy reversed
01/08- nerve transposition-(12/7) UW Hospital, Seattle
5/13/10 Gracilis flap surgery UW for smile restoration :)
11/10/10 BAHA 2/23/11 brow lift/canthoplasty

Crazycat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
  • Self-Portrait/ "Friends, Romans, countrymen...."
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2009, 05:47:21 pm »
 
Moe,

  In the interest of sharing information with you and other newbies that may not have seen it before, I'm posting a transcription of one of my surgical reports. In it you will see this sentence, "Of note, the tumor was extremely hypervascular and the entire operation was hindered by copious hemorrhage from the tumor at every step." in the fourth paragraph down.

In other words, I as well experienced copious bleeding around the growth. While I came through without any facial nerve damage, I was afllicted with left-side impairment that seemed to simulate a mild stroke. I used to be quite an illustrator. After my surgery I could barely write or even print, never mind draw. It's slowly coming back but it's taking years to do so.

As far as the care you received. You mentioned that you had been treated at an Army/ military hospital. I was wondering how you felt about that.

Here is the report......




OPERATIVE REPORT.
 
 
PREOPERATIVE DIAGNOSIS: Large left acoustic neuroma  (5cm).
 
POSTOPERATIVE DIAGNOSIS: Large left acoustic neuroma (5cm).
 
PROCEDURE: Left suboccipital microsurgical craniotomy for radical subtotal resection of acoustic neuroma, abdominal fat graft harvest, cranioplasty.
 
SURGEONS: Frederick Barker, M.D. and Michael McKenna, M.D.
 
ASSISTANT: Ziv Williams, M.D.
 
INDICATIONS: This man presented with a history of a large left cerebellopontine angle lesion, 5 cm in diameter. with moderate-to-severe hydrocephalus. A ventriculoperitoneal CSF shunt had been placed several weeks prior to operation to allow normalization of gait and to prepare for the tumor resection., which was undertaken today.
 
DESCRIPTION OF PROCEDURE: After the induction of satisfactory general endotracheal anesthesia, the patient was positioned supine with a blanket under the left shoulder and the head facing straight lateral toward the right in the Mayfield headrest. The left suboccipital area was widely clipped, prepped, and draped as was the left lower abdomen. We took care not to penetrate the CSF shunt with the Mayfield headrest.
 
An S-shaped extended suboccipital craniotomy incision was opened., pericranial graft harvested, suboccipital musculature stripped. A burr hole was placed and the subocciptal craniotomy was turned. The craniotomy was enlarged with Leksell and Kerrison ronguers to give a very generous exposure in the posterior fossa including the posterior edge of the lateral sinus, nearly down to the jugular bulb, and the inferior edge of the transverse sinus for several centimeters. The dura was opened in a stellate fashion. We accessed the basal cisterns easily because of the inferior extent of the craniotomy and drained CSF.
 
The operating microscope was used for the entire intradural operation. We defined the exposed tumor capsule, electrocoagulated it and incised it under the frozen section diagnosis., which was schwannoma. Of note, the tumor was extremely hypervascular and the entire operation was hindered by copious hemorrhage from the tumor at every step.. We did a radical intracapsular debulking of the tumor and began to separate it from the lateral cerebellum and lateral penduncle. The tumor could be separated from the lower nerves, which were markedly distorted and displaced by the tumor. The tumor was not not adherent to the hypoglossal nerve, but was in contact with the vertebral artery. Rostrally, the tumor was separated from the IVth nerve, which was displaced in a remarkable fashion over the tentorium.
The trigeminal nerve was not yet seen, although a region of the brainstem in the normal region of the trigeminal nerve was encountered.
 
Dr. McKenna entered the operation and removed additional tumor from the petrous face, then electrocoagulated and reflected the dura of the of the petrous face and drilled the temporal bone to reveal the internal auditory canal.
 
I reentered the operation and continued a prolong process of debulking and tumor removal. In all, the microsurgical portion of this case lasted for approximately 9 hours. At the conclusion of the dissection, a clean plane could no longer be maintained either laterally, or medially, where indeed we did not locate the origin of the facial nerve on the lateral surface of the pontomedullary junction because of dense adherence to the medulla. However, the remaining tumor fragment was quite thinned and the brainstem was pulsatile throughout the exposure. The origin of the VIth nerve was well seen and the VIth nerve was intact as was the IVth nerve. The trigeminal nerve was freed from compression over a significant portion of its course. It had been displaced quite far inferiorly from its normal position. The remaining tumor fragment appeared quite thin, as we could stimulate the nerve through it with 0.3 mA in more than one place. The brainstem was pulsatile, although it had not come entirely back to its normal position.- it was displaced across the midline at the beginning of the operation.
 
We placed a piece of Surgicel in the exposed portion of the residual tumor, harvested a fat graft in the left lower abdomen. This incision was closed with deep Vicryl sutures and an undyed Vicryl subcuticular stitch. The fat graft was placed into the internal auditory canal, which had been carefully waxed under microscopic control. The fat graft was held in place with a pledget of Surgicel. After thorough irrigation of the posterior fossa free of blood products, and instillation of 5mg of intrathecal vancomycin and 5mg intrathecal gentamycin because of the presence of the shunt, we closed the dura in a watertight fashion using the previously harvested pericranial graft. The bone plate was replaced into position and the 4.5 residual cranial defect was occluded with a titanium mesh cranioplasty. After further irrigation and hemostasis, the incision was closed in layers using Vicryl for the deep layers and a nylon running skin stitch. A sterile dressing was applied. The patient was released from the headrest and taken to the Blake 12 ICU, intubated, for further monitoring. The anesthesia service felt that because of facial and airway edema, extubation was not prudent. However, the patient demonstrated the ability to move all four extremities before resedation.
 
ATTESTATION: I was present or immediately available throughout the operation and performed its key neurosurgical portions personally. All material implanted during this operation is MRI compatible.
5cm x 5cm left-side A.N. partially removed via Middle Fossa 9/21/2005 @ Mass General. 
Compounded by hydrocephalus. Shunt installed 8/10/2005.
Dr. Fred Barker - Neurosurgeon and Dr. Michael McKenna - Neurotologist.

moe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2009, 07:28:50 pm »
Yes, that's definitely an interesting report. It didn't  say how much blood you lost.

I WOULD like to get a report of the operation. Like I said, my life was a blur at the time, but now I am settled in WA in our home. But then the other part of me thinks, "Why do it at this point?" It is what it is........

As far as the military care/hospital, Madigan is the hospital that does these surgeries on this coast. I was originally going to have my surgery in San Antonio at Wilford Hall, but timing didn't work.

I received excellent care and do not doubt my surgeon's expertise. The thought of "shopping around" and trying to get to a well known civilian doctor just didn't even enter my mind. When I found out about the tumor, I was in Corpus Christi, TX in our home with our kids (one just entered college, one a junior in high school, and one in middle school).I was just trying to survive and just had faith that it would all work out..... It was insane....We had to work something out so that my husband could be with me through the ordeal.

There was another gal who posted for a while- she had the same surgeon and hospital. Hers was a monster tumor. They had to break it into two surgeries. She came out without any facial nerve issues but dropped from the forum. I've always wondered how she is doing. Another gal who I had email contact with prior to my surgery had the same doctor and came out fine without facial problems. Both docs in TX and WA recommended surgical removal through the translab approach.

Anyway to answer your question, I felt FINE about having my surgery at the military hospital. :) I follow there with the oculoplastic surgeon for eye issues, UW in Seattle for post 7/12 surgery issues, and will probably go back to one or the other hospitals for more surgery. My ENT did not do many of the nerve grafts, so TRI CARE did cover the surgery at UW. More fun to come!
Maureen
r
06/06-Translab 3x2.5 vascular L AN- MAMC,Tacoma WA
Facial nerve cut,reanastomosed.Tarsorrhaphy
11/06. Gold weight,tarsorrhaphy reversed
01/08- nerve transposition-(12/7) UW Hospital, Seattle
5/13/10 Gracilis flap surgery UW for smile restoration :)
11/10/10 BAHA 2/23/11 brow lift/canthoplasty

Crazycat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
  • Self-Portrait/ "Friends, Romans, countrymen...."
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2009, 11:17:44 pm »
Interesting Moe. The more we learn, the less we understand. I really don't know what to make of it.

However, it is a good idea to obtain a copy of your operative report. It's something that you should have for your records regardless. I know that having my own report in my possession has made some things much easier for me. It's there for the taking; all you have to do is request it.
5cm x 5cm left-side A.N. partially removed via Middle Fossa 9/21/2005 @ Mass General. 
Compounded by hydrocephalus. Shunt installed 8/10/2005.
Dr. Fred Barker - Neurosurgeon and Dr. Michael McKenna - Neurotologist.

4cm in Pacific Northwest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1324
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2009, 09:20:56 am »
Moe,

Have you had any luck with acupuncture?

DHM
4cm Left, 08/22/07 R/S 11+ hr surgery Stanford U, Dr. Robert Jackler, Dr. Griffith Harsh, Canadian fellow Assist. Dr. Sumit Agrawal. SSD, 3/6 on HB facial scale, stick-on-eyeweight worked, 95% eye function@ 6 months. In neuromuscular facial retraining. Balance regained! Recent MRI -tumor receded!

moe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2009, 10:51:29 am »
YES I have! It is slow in coming, but I have noticed more movement and incredible tingles around the upper lip and mid cheek area where it is pretty dead. It's going to be a 4 month deal, couple of times a week, just attacking that area over and over.
It has also helped my well being, anxiety, depression, fatigue, so it's a win/win situation. :)
I have a feeling I will still need some sort of face lift work, but the movement is improving. Thanks for asking!
Maureen
06/06-Translab 3x2.5 vascular L AN- MAMC,Tacoma WA
Facial nerve cut,reanastomosed.Tarsorrhaphy
11/06. Gold weight,tarsorrhaphy reversed
01/08- nerve transposition-(12/7) UW Hospital, Seattle
5/13/10 Gracilis flap surgery UW for smile restoration :)
11/10/10 BAHA 2/23/11 brow lift/canthoplasty

swhite

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2009, 12:42:36 pm »
I am now 9 weeks post-op and have anxiety over everything.  My double vision, wobbly head, ringing in my right ear, iright facial paralysis - all starting to cause anxiety.  I've read allot on the forum about nerve regeneration and I know it can take a long time.  I have sensation, but no movement.  Good news that my right eye started to move from center out to the right this week.  It was stuck just left of center, and with visual therapy, it now moves.  This is a good sign.  Maybe the other nerves will follow. Can anyone explain what it feels like to have the nerves come back.  Maybe this is a dumb question -  I'm sure this varies from person to person. Having a rough day and trying to stay positive:(
Retrosigmoid 8/27/09 undiagnosed and suddenly; no symptoms prior; approx. 4cmx2cmx2cm; right-side, facial paralysis/weakness, SSD and tinnitus. Baha surgery 11/9/10.
Gamma Knife 8/11/14 at UPMC w/Dr. Lunsford after regrowth detected June 2014

Crazycat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
  • Self-Portrait/ "Friends, Romans, countrymen...."
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2009, 01:42:59 pm »
swhite,

   While I haven't had any problems with facial paralysis, I've had numbness on the left side of my face and around the areas on my head where incisions had been made. The numbness around those surgical areas was so complete that when I touched or rubbed my head in those places it didn't feel like my own; but this is normal for most surgeries anywhere on the body.

 Then, one day months later I touched my head and it felt perfectly normal; all feeling had returned and it had done so without me noticing it. That's the way it seems to work, in a very gradual manner. My facial numbness is still there but much better than it was just after surgery. It's strange how some people experience great pain from problems with the trigeminal nerve whereas others (as myself) only have numbness.

Those AN surgeries really short-circuited my nervous system. For instance, my feet had always been intensely ticklish. After surgery I could receive full foot massages and not even flinch. My handwriting was shot but is gradually improving—albeit very slowly.

5cm x 5cm left-side A.N. partially removed via Middle Fossa 9/21/2005 @ Mass General. 
Compounded by hydrocephalus. Shunt installed 8/10/2005.
Dr. Fred Barker - Neurosurgeon and Dr. Michael McKenna - Neurotologist.

moe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1697
Re: Facial Nerve Issues
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2009, 10:16:07 pm »
swhite,
Out of curiosity, was your facial nerve stretched or did it have to be cut? If cut, did they do a direct reanastomosis?
Yes, the facial nerve does take quite a while to "come back" and patience is  the order of the day (or months). It is soooo hard to just sit there and do nothing but that is what is recommended for the first 6 months at least.
I will sometimes feel a nerve "spasm"-it comes and goes really quick- right now around my upper left lip and around the mouth. A tingly sensation. I love the feeling- I wish I had it more.I
'm over 3 years post op and as you can see by my sig, it is a work in progress.

The anxiety, depression or whatever is completely normal, especially with all your symptoms.
Hang in there- there are those on the forum who got antidepressants ordered to get over the "hump", and it is nothing to be ashamed  about.

And remember, no question is a dumb question! That's what we are all here for ;)
Maureen
06/06-Translab 3x2.5 vascular L AN- MAMC,Tacoma WA
Facial nerve cut,reanastomosed.Tarsorrhaphy
11/06. Gold weight,tarsorrhaphy reversed
01/08- nerve transposition-(12/7) UW Hospital, Seattle
5/13/10 Gracilis flap surgery UW for smile restoration :)
11/10/10 BAHA 2/23/11 brow lift/canthoplasty