ANA Discussion Forum

Useful Information => Physicians => Topic started by: carter on March 08, 2009, 05:03:05 pm

Title: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: carter on March 08, 2009, 05:03:05 pm
abc news carried a story today inwhich they described that drs are not liking that patients rate them on line.. so they ate asking / requiring patients to sign a contract stating that they will not post about a doctor's treatment.  in the story, the interviewed doctor said that he is tied by patient / dr confidentiallity so he feels no qualm in asking patients to sign.

my opinion is not very high of  dor who is not willing to be rated.... i may be biased as i have not had great treatment?

a.  missed the AN for years  dr said to not worry about hearing loss

b.  audiologist who did not return calls

c.  mri that had tech who was mad for staying OT and did not explain - did not deal with my fear of teh enclosed.

c.  a ck dr who could not defend her decisions and decided to revisit her planne treatment pn 2 seperate days.

e.  mri tech who ran wrong tests

f.  a ck dr who was totally unavailable during the days of treatement.  tech only could get PA to visit with wife and i.


now ownder they do want to be rated!!!!
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: mimoore on March 08, 2009, 06:29:13 pm
Here.. here. I totally agree!!!!!
Here I sit trying not too be angry at four different doctors who misdiagnosed me for 10 yrs. A little hard to get over.
Michelle
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Dan on March 09, 2009, 01:15:50 am
I always had to rate my soldiers in the military and I told them if you work hard and do your best you don't have to worry about your ratings. I never worried about ratings.  There are some people that you can never please but in the long run everyone will see who is good and who not.

Dan in Germany
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: suboo73 on March 09, 2009, 04:44:17 am
Carter,  I agree with you and Michelle - here here!  ::)  At about 40, i was 'just getting older.'  Meanwhile, my sister goes to the doctor and has a diagnosis in a few months, after the MRI.  OMGosh!
I really believe the doctors i dealt with just didn't have the experience, probably never saw an AN - but that is not an excuse to put me off at 40. - lucky for me, at 53 the AN is not super large.

Anyway - i am glad to hear you have received your treatment successfully at a facility that gave you good care and confidence in your decision.  How are you feeling these days?

All my best to you both!

Sue
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: ppearl214 on March 09, 2009, 11:53:47 am
saw the same thing on the news, Carter. Based on my years of misdiagnoses, being diagnosed with my "trifecta" (my AN is only 1 of 3 majors... and doesn't include all the secondary issues)...... I spoke to my bloke about it.. .and trust me, I made it known to him that if a dr was to ask me to sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement... btw, I deal with them daily at my daytime job)... I would walk myself right out of their office.  I recommend my PCP all the time... she's fantastic... and even if she asked me to sign one, I'd tell her no... cuz, she won't get my patient referrals as well.

Drs requesting me to sign an NDA... Oh, I have a few acronyms I could use, back in their face!

GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!   :o  >:(  :o  >:(

Phyl
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Pooter on March 09, 2009, 04:38:08 pm
I would think that any reputable doctor worth anything would not try to get people to sign NDA's.  I would further think that testimonials from active patients would be "good for business" for the good ones and not "good for business" for the bad ones.  I'm with Phyl that if I were asked to sign an NDA from any doctor for any reason then I'd walk out without being treated because I would immediately be suspect of their expertise.

Regards,
Brian
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: MAlegant on March 09, 2009, 05:28:48 pm
With great power comes great accountability.  Doctors as well!  Easy for me to say, I loved my doctors.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: sgerrard on March 10, 2009, 10:56:25 pm
I always go by how many good comments a doctor gets, not by whether someone, somewhere has a complaint about them. Does the gag order include not saying anything  good about the doctor online?

I can't imagine a more damaging comment from a patient than "I would tell you about Dr. X, but I had to sign an agreement saying I wouldn't." Oh, that's bad.

I think the smarter better doctors will take a pass on this. I'm sticking with those.

Steve
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: nteeman on March 11, 2009, 06:38:54 am
I think the issue to sign that you don't rate a doctor online is a legal issue and while I don't agree with it, I am not sure if it is against the law.

That said, I can understand the reason for the doctor's concern. My experience with forums in general is that more people post when they are unhappy with something and fewer post with raves. My cable service is often bashed on forums for that provider by people who are having problems with their system. Some folks give praise, and even complainers will occasionally comment that it is still the best out there, yet if you browsed the forum you would have to conclude that the service is bad. I would hate to think what the doctors forum would end up looking like.  Does the doctor have monitor his internet ratings to protect his practice?

I had a bad experience with an ENT who I initially saw for early symptoms that ended up being my AN and I do not use that doctor anymore. I tell people I know about my experience with him and let them make there own conclusion about him. I don't think I would post those comments and his name on a forum. I would have to say that for me to post a negative comment about a doctor it would have to be a severe action and in that case a law suit would probably make more sense.

Neal
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: lori67 on March 11, 2009, 11:24:16 am
Wow, that's interesting.  I agree with Phyl, if I were asked to fill out one of those forms, I'd toss it in the trash as I was making my way, quickly, out the door.  As Dr. Phil says, "people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing".  If my doctor was so worried about my saying bad things about him, he should probably make sure he's doing what I'm paying him to do in the first place and following that Hippocratic Oath he had to take ("first do no harm", etc).

I would like to think that most people aren't going to judge a doctor solely by what I say about him.  I used to work with a doctor who was just a mess - he looked like an unmade bed most of the time - ugly tie, shirt not quite pressed and tucked in, messy hair, but he was an excellent doctor.  So hopefully my mentioning the fact that he looked like he slept in his clothes wouldn't damage his practice as long as he had built a respectable reputation with his doctor skills.

But if someone had a legitimate complaint about this doctor, hopefully there would be a complaint on file about it with the AMA (or whatever country you happen to be in) and that is public record.  I can find out about the lawsuits or complaints against that doctor, which would speak to me much louder than someone casually complaining about him.  Maybe the doctor should be more worried about that information damaging his career.

Does the 1st Amendment (Freedom of Speech) apply to internet postings?  (US again, sorry - don't know about other countries..).  I would think that if I'm not falsely accusing or threatening in my post, I should be able to express my opinions.  I think we each have a responsibility to evaluate the opinion of others - just because I didn't like a particular doctor doesn't mean he's awful and no one should trust him.

Am I rambling again?  This all makes sense to me in my head, but I'm afraid it doesn't when I actually type it....   ???

Lori
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: carter on March 12, 2009, 06:09:32 pm
i have searched the internet and see that such contracts are npt uncommon. 

above all, it appears to be an infringement on  my rights.  to this, teh drs say that they ahve teh right to refuse services.....

i personally would elect to go elsewhere ..... or would i if it was a dr that was teh one that i used to follow up on an after ck?  where do you then go?  no outlet.

just a new twist to the patient dr relationship
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: BJL on October 24, 2009, 08:08:58 pm
Patient confidentality protects the patient not the doctor, so if you want to rate a doctor, good or bad, go for it. If a doctor wants you to sign a contract there is something wrong, not a doctor I want on my case.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Jim Scott on October 25, 2009, 04:32:10 pm
I've never rated a doctor or even looked at websites that 'rate' doctors.  I go by a doctor's reputation with patients and input from an RN we know who has observed most of the local doctors over her 30+ year career as a hospital nurse.  Frankly, I'm not that interested in 'rating' doctors online.  I avoid any doctor that doesn't treat me with respect (he/she doesn't have to be obsequious) or seems inept, which has occurred.  So far, most doctors I've encountered - especially during my AN experience - were quite competent and treated me with a reasonable level of respect, so I have no complaints. 

That having been stated, I'm certainly not against doctor 'rating' websites.  I agree that any doctor insisting - upfront - that I sign an agreement not to post an online comment about his services on a public forum is a bit presumptuous - and a request that I would deny.  However, I'm not an attorney and I have no idea whether this internet doctor rating business has any possible (negative) legal ramifications.  It may.  Of course, posting borderline slanderous comments i.e. "Dr. X is a butcher with a medical license', Dr. X looks like an unmade bed" would be blatantly unfair as well as potentially legally actionable.  At some point, we'll all engage a doctor that may have a poor 'bedside manner' or runs a disorganized office but in practice, may be a very good doctor.  It happens.  With sometimes anonymous internet postings (that tend to embolden people to go negative) over some minor misunderstanding that they chose to perceive as an insult, it could be a slippery slope - and one that I plan to avoid.  But that's me. 

Jim
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on October 25, 2009, 06:49:39 pm
Very interesting topic, Carter - thanks for starting it.

IMO, any doctor worth his salt would never ask a patient to sign a contract not to rate him/her online or any place else.

Like numerous others here, I had incredible doctors - and I never hesitate to recommend them to others.  In fact, I am very proud to do so. 

However, unfortunately, as we all know, not all doctors are good doctors (same goes for lawyers, teachers, and pretty much any profession).  I think asking a patient to sign such an agreement would be an insult to the patient.  I personally would think twice about becoming a patient of any doctor who asked me to do this - especially one who would be treating my brain tumor.

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: no2hopkins on November 13, 2009, 12:10:45 pm
My ENT and Neurosurgeon at Hopkins were and still are on Baltimore Magazine's Baltimore's Best Doctors list. My surgical results were extremely disappointing. Their training and reputations within the medical community were impeccable. What I neglected to do was talk to past patients.  That would be my recopmmendation.  Dr. reviews can be beneficial.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: grega on November 13, 2009, 12:49:04 pm
Hi .... noticed your moniker in another thread and wondered if it meant you had any association with Hopkins.  And now, your post today verifies that. 

I also had AN surgery at JHH .... 5 yrs this Monday .... so I was curious as to which docs you refer to on the Balto Mag's Best Docs list.  Sure enuf, Henry Brem headed my team.  I've had no difficulties from the surgery other than SSD.  And I was very pleased with Dr Brem before surgery, and have not been displeased since.

That said, I agree with you that some would benefit greatly from reviews prior to any AN decision-making.  This forum offers that, to some degree, when some posters advice others that ask.  I've suggested that in previous posts.

Sorry that you experienced less than positive results.

Greg
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: no2hopkins on November 13, 2009, 01:17:13 pm
Thanks for the reply. I had Dr. Brem and Dr. Holiday and  was completely dissatisfied with both. I'm glad yours went well though. I had my surgery in 2003 and it resulted in total right side deafness and complete right side facial paralysis. I was unhappy with the information I was given prior to my surgery and the follow up visits with Dr. Brem were, frankly, insulting. I left Hopkins and went to Univ of Md in Balt, Dr. Stephanie Moody, who tried to correct some of the effects left by the Hopkins surgery. She did a great job using a Gortex sling and a hypoglossal nerve jump graft which gave me some symetry in my face. I also have a gold weight in my right eyelid as I was unable to close my eye after surgery.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on November 18, 2009, 07:05:49 am
No -

I'm sorry you had problems with your surgery but had to chime in and say that doctors can't guarantee anyone anything 100%.  Like the rest of us, they are only human.  Lots of patients have SSD and facial paralysis, they are risks of the surgery.  I'm SSD myself, but don't blame that on my doctors.  Two of my best friends from the Forum, Lori67 and Kaybo have had followup surgeries for facial paralysis (7/12 jump and T3 respectively).  Lots of forumites have had CSF leaks.  I guess my point here is, sh*t happens.  Unfortunately it happened to you.  IMO that was neither your docs' fault nor your fault.

I'm glad that Dr. Moody was able to help you with the sling and nerve graft.  Have you tried a BAHA or a TransEar for your SSD?  I wear a BAHA and it's made all the difference in the world.

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: HeadCase2 on November 18, 2009, 03:03:14 pm
  I can almost understand the Doctor's point of view.  HIPAA regulations, related to patient confidentiality, would prevent a Doctor from being able to respond online to a patient's criticism.  And I've dealt with the public enough to know that not everyone's expectations are in line with reality.  That being said, I can not imagine any reputable Doctor having the time or inclination to look for any potential online criticism, or want to muzzle their patients.
 Regards,
   Rob
 
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: no2hopkins on November 19, 2009, 09:16:01 pm
Thanks for your response.  I believe however, docs should judged based on their successes of lack thereof. I would not recommend an auto mechanic who had a history on being unable to properly fix a car. I don't think it's unreasonable to hold doc to the same standard.  I believe "anything can happen" is a cop out that certainly wouldn't work at my job.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Jim Scott on November 20, 2009, 03:33:38 pm
Thanks for your response.  I believe however, docs should judged based on their successes of lack thereof. I would not recommend an auto mechanic who had a history on being unable to properly fix a car. I don't think it's unreasonable to hold doc to the same standard.  I believe "anything can happen" is a cop out that certainly wouldn't work at my job.

I agree that judging a physician - specifically, for AN patients - a neurosurgeon that specializes in acoustic neuroma removal operations, should ultimately be based on his record of success (or lack of, in a negative sense).  As I previously stated, these online evaluations don't interest me much as comments can be anonymous and therefore unverifiable, making them of dubious value.  However, I don't object, out of hand, online physician evaluations from patients. 

I think it should be noted that neurosurgeons performing extremely demanding microsurgery to remove or debulk an acoustic neuroma are operating in a tiny, restricted area and that critical cranial nerves are close to the operating site and quite vulnerable.  Add to that, the reality that every individual will have a slightly different reaction to having their skull opened and the tumor excised, the procedure usually taking an average of 8 hours (often, much longer) to accomplish with many assistants required.  When you add up all these variables, the possibility for negative surgical outcomes (in varying degrees) is simply inescapable.  The fact is that surgical procedures have advanced over the years and today, there are many more excellent outcomes from AN removal than ever before.  That doesn't lessen the tribulation and frustration an AN surgical patient who doesn't experience a good outcome has to endure.  Unfortunately, with this kind of ultra-delicate surgery, there is no guaranteed method and to expect a surgeon to basically offer his patients a warranty that his surgery will not have any negative aspects to the patients quality of life is a bit unrealistic, as much as we might wish that kind of iron-clad guarantee could be offered to us prior to surgery. 

That having been necessarily stated, I'm always dismayed to learn that any AN patient is suffering with post-op complications.  As we know, a lack of research and making the mistake of simply assuming any neurosurgeon is going to have the necessary experience and surgical skills to successfully remove an acoustic neuroma from our skull with almost no adverse complications is naive but, unfortunately, this happens, and sometimes produces unpleasant results.  Of course it's a case of caveat emptor and this website and these forums strive to aid newly diagnosed AN patients, even if we can't reach them all.  Our mantra is one of 'research, research, research'.  While I don't necessarily endorse doctor rating websites, I can understand their reason for existing and why some folks may turn to them in an attempt to bolster their confidence in the capabilities of a doctor they're considering to hire to perform serious surgery in a very vulnerable part of their body - their skull/brain. 

Doctor's reputations count and so does their experience but again, considering the kind of surgery that AN removals involve, demanding a doctor practically guarantee the outcome of their surgery is a tad unreasonable, although it's easy to understand why any AN patient would prefer having this kind of guarantee.  The reality is that, with no fault on the part of a doctor, any surgical patient can have a poor outcome, even when everything was done correctly.  People die on operating tables while having minor surgery.  Acoustic neuroma removal surgery is a medical discipline that cannot realistically be compared to any other type of work.  While AN surgery is clearly more important than fixing your car, it is still performed by human beings putting their hands and instruments where nature never intended for them to be and performing extraordinarily delicate procedures on a living human being.  I compare it to disarming a live bomb.  The fact that, today, the majority of AN patients experience a good surgical outcome is heartening and I look forward to the day when no AN patient - surgical or radiation (or both) will have to endure any kind of complication that impacts his or her quality of life.  I regret that even the best doctors operating in the best facilities cannot guarantee their outcomes and that patients sometimes suffer life-altering effects when the surgery doesn't produce near-perfect results.  I doubt the doctors involved are satisfied with those kinds of outcomes, either. 

Because this is the current state of AN surgery/radiation (no guarantees) the ANA and the good folks that contribute to these forums will continue to  do all they can to educate and support AN patients.  It's the best we can do.  I apologize for the length of this reply (to your post) but I thought it deserved a serious response and not a flip comment. 

Jim

   
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: no2hopkins on November 21, 2009, 05:37:43 am
Jim,
I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply, although I disagree with some of your points.  Auto mechanics and brain surgery are only a poor comparison if I asked my auto mechanic to perform brain surgery. Otherwise, they are both occupations the provider has been trained to do. I agree that brain surgery is more complicated and offers more opportunity for things to go wrong.  My point is that docs should not be given a pass and that all results (good or bad) should not be accepted as though inevitable.  Docs should be questioned and held accountable for poor results.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on November 23, 2009, 10:43:03 pm
Docs should be questioned and held accountable for poor results.

Only if patients are questioned and held accountable for having side-effects and complications.

Bottomline, nothing in life is 100% guaranteed.  No doctor can promise you anything 100%.  If one does, be VERY, VERY, wary.

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Pooter on November 30, 2009, 03:15:10 pm
Docs should be questioned and held accountable for poor results.

Only if patients are questioned and held accountable for having side-effects and complications.

Bottomline, nothing in life is 100% guaranteed.  No doctor can promise you anything 100%.  If one does, be VERY, VERY, wary.

Jan

Just thought that I'd point out that there are 2 things in life that can be guaranteed.  Death and taxes.  :)

Carry on.

Regards,
Brian
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: carter on November 30, 2009, 04:27:43 pm
i started this thread some time ago ...  i did it as i was not satisfied with my doctors.  at that time, i had no real side affects, i had communications issues, etc.  i have read others that have had the same.

now the tome has turned to that of no doctor can guarantee anything.  BS!  a dr can communicate with you, they can talk withe you to get consent vs making the decision of sacrificing your hearing, they can treat you with respect and dignity - not talk down to you.

and i see that much is hung on the concept of success of the procedure.  one has to ask who's definition?   is it strictly the control of the tumor --- mine is good.  i am now SSD and have numbness in the face.  teh dr now says that he knew that i would loose the hearing all the time.  when i had the facial numbness, it took 6 weeks to get the MRI and for me to be told, nerve damage .... it is better than having bigger issues created with surgery.

usually this board is good about standing behind the person making the comments --- or at least reading the words before jumping ...  i am just not seeign it today!


carter
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Jim Scott on November 30, 2009, 05:10:47 pm
Hi, Carter ~

I'm disappointed that you've perceived the comments on this thread as not supporting you.  I don't think that was anyone's intention and I'm sorry you are displeased with the reactions. 

Yes, a doctor should certainly communicate with the patient.  No one would argue that.  What was basically stated was that no doctor can guarantee the outcome of his surgery, even though we, as patients, very much wish that he could.  Who wouldn't?  Surgeons generally consider that if the tumor is excised the operation was successful.  Technically, it was.  We all understand that the patient's quality of life post-op is a major factor in determining 'success' but many surgeons do not yet share that outlook.  I think they are badly misguided when they take that narrow view but, sadly, many still do.  I regret that you seem to be stuck with a doctor that considers the operation a success just because the tumor is gone.  Your appreciation for the fact that your AN-related problems are relatively minor compared to others is both realistic and appreciated.   

That your doctor didn't tell you ahead of time that you would be likely to lose your hearing in the AN-affected ear is unfortunate and it was wrong of him not to inform you.  However, some cursory research on your part would have forewarned you that complete or partial loss of hearing is a very common complication of AN removal surgery.  The ANA literature states this and so do most other websites devoted to AN issues.  I have to believe that had you asked your doctor about the possibility of hearing loss he would have told you it was likely.  That he apparently never mentioned it is certainly remiss on his part and, frankly, highly unusual.  The length of time it took for you to obtain an MRI scan may not be entirely the doctor's fault but if it was, your displeasure is understandable. 

Carter, this is, as you noted, a support site for AN patients and we are always disappointed to learn that any AN patient has had an unsatisfactory outcome and is upset with his doctor.   The members that populate and basically make these forums the resource and place of support they are don't mean to disparage your dissatisfaction with your outcome or in any way minimize your exasperation.  We consider you a friend and a fellow AN patient that we appreciate and will continue to support.  That hasn't changed.  Please forgive any misunderstanding that may have occurred and accept our collective apology and best hopes for your continued recovery.

Jim      
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: CHD63 on November 30, 2009, 06:03:21 pm
Carter .....

I want to echo Jim in saying that I do not think anyone who has responded to this thread intended to minimize your concern or situation in any way.  We try to be honest with our posts (and not sugar-coat things) so that newly diagnosed people have a more accurate reality of what to expect.

I am so sorry you did not have a good experience with your doctor(s).  In my mind there is no excuse for poor communication in a medical office but the reality is that it does happen.  The older I get the more I am coming to realize that I have a responsibility to be involved in my own medical care, by way of doing all of the research I can and asking all of the questions I can.  This in no way excuses a doctor from the responsibility of telling a patient what the possible scenarios can be with any treatment.

Please continue to come back here and see that we really do care what happened to you.  We support you as you continue with this journey.

My hope is that you can move forward from this .....

Clarice
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Doc on November 30, 2009, 06:13:44 pm
Gosh, if I had six things I could rattle off about how I didn't like the care I received from my Doctor's I'd be speaking with an attorney rather than making a forum post.  I did just that when I thought I was mistreated regarding my eye.  The attorney set me straight, "don't waste my time and your money" he said.  I'm sure most of our *complaints* would probably be met with the same response. You can't fault a guy for trying to protect is reputation from what is usually nothing more than sour grapes. Having said all that, the whole contract thing is a shame.  You guys should probably consider finding new medical professionals to provide all necessary care moving forward. Please don't be offended by my comments, I've been there and continue to be challenged by many of the same frustrations you've experienced and likely continue to face daily.

Take Care!
  ;)
Doc
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: 4cm in Pacific Northwest on November 30, 2009, 08:44:50 pm
If a doctor has a history of malpractice suits this is something I want to know BEFORE I agree to have them treat me. If I were required to sign a gag order- I would just walk out and say,

“See ya!  There are others out there, who are reputable, and do not need to gag their patients.”

When this is a problem is when the doctor is a “big fish in a small pond” and the patients do not have insurance coverage to go out-of-state… or out-of-network and THE Doctor-in-question is only who their insurance will cover.

The surgeon must had to have really messed up if a patient was to endure a lawyer, the legal fees, the court proceeding and actually WIN the law suit… as the alias DR.”B” states. (BTW "DR B" are you really a doctor? If not why did you choose this avatar name? I go by Daisy Head Mazy as Dr Seuss very much puts my AN journey in a nutshell with that story)

I had a gut instinct about one particular neurosurgeon who was sending my discernment flags waving all-over-the-place (not to mention my back hairs up)- especially when he was back biting a reputable colleague who I had already met, done research on and had the utmost respect for. When I asked why a translab and baha would be scheduled simultaneously – he said (in front of his intern and my husband) motioning his finger as if he had money in his hand,
“You know what this is don’t you? (Referring to the imaginary dollars in his fingers).  It is because they know they will take your hearing out and they just want you money!”

 His amazing unprofessionalism blew me, and my husband, away …  worse he was in a teaching capacity role-modeling for med students.

…And I knew there must be something on this guy.  (Call it 6th sense or  :-\ whatever…)

I went home and logged onto www.healthgrades.com and put in his name.
Sure enough this “Dr Ego” (not his real name of course  ;)) had malpractice records (plural!). And ironically he has taught a course for other doctors on how to avoid lawsuits….

Funny I have never mentioned his “name” on-line but anyone in my locale, who has met the guy and also interviewed him for AN treatment, knows exactly whom I am talking about. He was so crass and arrogant with them also -that they too had flags. I wondered if he was sued because of incompetence or if he simply has the ability to absolutely infuriate people -with his lack of social graces.

I hope www.heathgrades.com is here to stay. Yes you have to pay for a report but know the report will state the actual malpractice suits registered by the courts. It will also give you a record of the hospital that the surgeon works with.

Know that from Dr Ego's institution I have also met a few exceptionally professional doctors who are just excellent … and sadly this one surgeon (and another he works with) gives the rest a bad name. You would think the medical peers would want a review also done on a colleague -whom does not represent their medical profession well. I know some ANA members in my group who would not go back to one particular institution, for follow up help, as they had been treated so poorly by their surgeon(s)… and I had to really convince them that NOT all doctors in that particular institution where like that. It actually it took 2 different surgeons presenting to my group, from that specific institution, before some (who so needed help -especially with facial nerve damage issues), would go back there.

2001 this surgeon had more than one law suit against him … 2008 he was named one of the “top doctors” by a glossy metropolitan monthly magazine. Know that this magazine nomination is by “peer” review (IE other doctors and nurses NOT patients.) Sounds like a wonderful example of cronyism to me.

Nope- there still needs to be patient feedback.  

 I have seen numerous doctors: some were dreadful, a few excellent and many somewhere in between. Some doctors are excellent but have weak clinic/office staff … or visa versa. I have only met a small few that are excellent in both DR and clinic/office staff. In truth I have NOT done an on-line review of ANY of these DR’s... but ones who have been excellent I have mentioned ,by name, on this forum only. I have one who has been just excellent and have refereed many of my fellow ANA buddies to him…  (Gee maybe I should give him a review so credit is due where it is deserved.) The doctors I know to be terrific I have been sure to let them know that (and fellow patients.) If a doctor or his/her clinic has huge weaknesses - I do actually point this out to them directly. Some are actually committed to growth and improvement- and receptive to change. If they make no effort to improve and grow- I move on and do not waste too much more time. (This is what this Canadian likes about living in the USA- you have the freedom to choose a doctor. You also have here the freedom of speech. Freedoms that are important to use wisely.)

If a doctor were to serve GAG order, as a condition of taking on a patient- that would be my first flag that the doctor has issues pre-existing.  Don’t sign. You are relinquishing a freedom you forefathers fought SO hard for.  Move on to a different doctor.

DHM (Daisy Head Mazy)
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: 4cm in Pacific Northwest on November 30, 2009, 10:00:13 pm
My ENT and Neurosurgeon at Hopkins were and still are on Baltimore Magazine's Baltimore's Best Doctors list. My surgical results were extremely disappointing.

Here is a link to the Baltimore Magazine

http://www.baltimoremagazine.net/article.asp?t=1&m=1&c=30&s=652&ai=88477

Quote from that
“Following are our 2009 Top Doctors as selected by their peers”


Know that the reviews from these Metropolitan Glossy magazines, which you and I both mentioned in our above posts, are done by peers (ie Doctors and nurses not patients.)

Lets just decide that the truth is these are cronyism magazines and not necessarily depicting truth and reality- that patients are experiencing.

However I will tell you that I recently saw an allergy specialist who was reviewed by the magazine and on their “top” list.  I thought both he and his clinic staff were just excellent.

So who is to say if these are reliable… or not…

DHM
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on November 30, 2009, 10:28:46 pm
Jim -

thanks for your last post.  Very well said and I totally agree with all your points.  You have a way with words that I'll never get the hang of.

Carter -

if I'm the one who ticked you off - or came across as less than supportive - I sincerely apologize.  That was not my intention at all.  I've always found one of the great things about this forum is that we can respectfully disagree with each other when expressing our opinions. 

I was lucky enough to have a doctor who believed in telling me every possible side-effect of both radiation and surgery, even if the chances of me getting it were very, very small.  That's just his style; he believes that patients should be fully informed.  And while initially this approached scared the sh*t out of me, I swiftly came to appreciate his honesty.  I am truly sorry that you had a doctor who didn't communicate such important issues to you - he was definitely remiss in not doing so.

DHM -

Dr. B is not a real doctor.  He just uses this name on the forum.

Jan 
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: no2hopkins on December 01, 2009, 07:01:18 am
This is obviously an important topic and has provoked a lot of great discussion.  I have even received e-mails from folks unhappy with their docs, but not interested in posting.  I think several good points have been made. In no particular order:  A patient bears some responsibility for finding a doc he/she feels comfortable with and who appears to be competent.  Magazines touting Top Docs are actually reporting docs nominated by their peers and not some independent review.  Docs make mistakes and some are just not good at what they do. Those docs should be held responsible for their poor performance in whatever way the patient feels appropriate (I don't think this has anything to do with sour grapes). And lastly, stuff does happen.
My advice would be to confront your doc if you are unhappy or change docs as I did.  My neuro suggested stiching my eye shut when it became apparent I had lost the ability to close it.  He was unfamiliar with inserting a gold weight in the lid when I told him I was considering that and he laughed when I said I had taken to wearing swimming goggles in the shower.  While not his specialty area, I would expect him to have some exposure to eye issues after surgery and some practical advice.  I won't bore you with more of my particular dissatisfaction with my doc, suffice to say I left Hopkins neurosurgery after that.  I sincerely hope anyone begining treatment has great results. Remember docs are just people who hae gone to school to learn a particular skill.  Some are good others aren't. Don't be afraid to tell a doc you don't think he's good enough for you.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Doc on December 01, 2009, 07:29:39 am
DHM - Like I've already said elsewhere in this forum, I'm not a Doctor, just like Jan has already happily pronounced.  However, Doc has been my nickname most of my 52 years and was given to me by my father, who as it turns out, was a very big bugs bunny fan. He wasn't a Doctor either, he made his money in the carpet industry...probably had a few Doc's as customers. I use "Doc" everywhere, including on my business cards and it was also on my Battle Dress Uniform name tags for the twenty years I was in the military.  When anybody asks me "whats up Doc?" I have an answer for that too, not appropriate for these pages.

Have a Fun Day!

Doc
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on December 01, 2009, 08:39:35 am
Remember docs are just people who have gone to school to learn a particular skill.  Some are good others aren't. Don't be afraid to tell a doc you don't think he's good enough for you.

Absolutely. 

While your post is full of many excellent points, this quote especially resonates with me.

I have consistently been thrilled with my doctors, but like you I have had many complain to me about their doc via email.  Interestingly enough, these complaints include doctors from some very well known facilities - which only proves to me that you need to look at doctors as individuals, not as a group.  I have met many doctors with partners I would never see - even in an emergency.

Not every doctor is for every patient, but moving along is an option that patients should exercise when they feel it is necessary.

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: lori67 on December 01, 2009, 01:14:39 pm
Just throwing in my 2 cents here - I think a patient bears more than some of the responsibility for finding a doctor he or she is comfortable with and who appears competent.  I think the patient bears all of that responsibility.  Getting back to the auto mechanic analogy, I don't think I'd take my car in to be fixed if I wasn't comfortable with the mechanic or if he didn't at least appear to be competent.   I would keep shopping until I found one that I was comfortable with.  I would certainly do the same when it comes to my own body.

The doctors responsibility is to be schooled and qualified to do the procedure you hire him to do and to disclose all the risks and benefits associated with that procedure.  If I'm not comfortable with the amount of information being provided, it's my responsibility to ask more questions until I am comfortable.

I'm saying this as a person who came out of surgery 2 1/2 years ago with SSD and facial paralysis, so I fully understand what it's like to live with the things that can go wrong.  I do not view my doctor as incompetent because these things happened.  Unwanted results can and do happen to all surgeons - that's life and that's a part of being human.  Considering what would have happened if I hadn't had the surgery or what could have gone wrong during brain surgery - I consider myself pretty lucky.

There's my 2 cents for the day.   Keep the change.
Lori
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Jim Scott on December 01, 2009, 01:52:31 pm
As my final comment on this thread (I promise!) I'll add that Carter is right about confronting a doctor who seems incompetent in some area he (or she) should be knowledgeable about and that we should follow his example of leaving any physician's practice if and when he (or she) doesn't respond to our needs.

Lori's observation about doctor's peers 'rating' them as mere cronyism in action is well taken.  I look at a doctor's record and whatever information I can gather from former or current patients, not magazine articles or websites.  When possible, I consult with a nurse, an old friend of my wife's.  She has some knowledge about most doctors within our geographic area and will give us her unbiased opinion, based on what she knows.  She has never steered us wrong.  

Beyond that, we are somewhat at the mercy of fate.  Even a good, skilled doctor can have a poor surgical outcome without doing anything wrong.  I don't waste a lot of time complaining about a doctor I'm not happy with, I simply leave his (or her) practice.  If I'm especially upset, I may write the doctor a 'more in sorrow than anger' letter expressing my disappointment - but that's about as far as I'll go.  Life is too short to harbor a lot of anger that achieves nothing but generating angst on my part. I recommend others consider 'moving on' when confronted by a doctor that fails to meet their (realistic) expectations.  Well, it works for me.

Jim   
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: carter on December 01, 2009, 07:24:26 pm
ok - when i wrote yesterday, i was not mad about references to me - i was upset about references made after other good people expressed their issues.

Dr's may well talk a good game during consultation ...  but act another way completely as time goes on. 

as a patient, i asked questions, but i was not educated enough to ask the right questions!  ie - success rate?   the profess it and my CK to be "GREAT" as the tumor is shrinking.  so what if i lost my hearing and my lower face is numb.  that does not count.

but more than anything i have found that you can not fire a CK dr.  many of the good surgeons in a town will not see you after CK.  yes i have been turned away. 

then when i expressed my displeasure with the neurosurgeon that ran the, he offered to refer me to House.  this is i wanted to add surgery to the list now ...

i had to slow down on my words as i realized that if i fire him - who do i go to?  there are 0 more CK neurosurgeons in town.  so i can travel to get my follow ups for the next 4 to 5 years?  my insurance may stop out of network coverage?   then i am forced back to town.   is he going to then take me back?  not after what i have already said to this person!

so if you have had surgery, you may have other local drs.   if you have had CK - you are to stay with this small group that is associated with the CK machine or go out of town?
this is nothing that i considered in the decision process.

life is still pretty good .... i have not had a bad headache in several weeks.

i am just nervous as heck ---- hearing gone- then facial numbness ---- will there be a next thing?  the dr said to just trust him ... he has no conception of the concept that trust is earned.  not given to any with a MD.  at least not in my world.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on December 01, 2009, 08:19:53 pm
Carter -

you mention that your hearing is gone.  I know this is off topic, but have you looked into anything to help with that - like a BAHA or a TransEar?

I found post op that being SSD was incredibly frustrating and annoying to me - and ultimately I realized it was depressing me also.  The BAHA involves surgery, so you might be hesitant to do that, but the TransEar doesn't require a surgical procedure and those who wear one seem to really like them.

Just a thought,

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: no2hopkins on December 02, 2009, 04:06:26 am
This has turned into a great discussion.  I mentioned that IMO a patient bears some of the responsibility of choosing a doc that meets his or her needs in an earlier post. The reason I stated some and not all of the responsibility is that many people have no choice.  They are restricted by their insurance or geographical location or other reasons. Unfortunately some folks can't shop around or leave if they are not satisfied.  In those cases, I don't hold the patient responsible.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: ppearl214 on December 02, 2009, 07:02:02 am
As many of you have learned about me over the years... and for meeting me in person to witness the ails in life that plague me.... one thing I have learned over this time... doctors are not gawds. 

I've challenged them, debated them, quizzed them (many of you witnessed this during meetings at the ANA Symposium, esp over "Pirate lunch" at our table), became far too educated for them, dumped them like hot potatoes yet, worship 1 or 2 that have profoundly helped me over the years..... all the while remembering one thing... they are human too ... and to err is human....

Thus, I continue to stress to all those that speak with me...become the best, well-informed patient you can be. As patients, it is also up to us to stay on top of the situation and challenge as needed.  Seek out multiple opinions in situations that require it... and once you are fully armed with info, make the best, well-informed decision you can (for any ailments, not just AN's) for you and your own, personal/individual situation.

My 2 cents.
Phyl
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Pooter on December 02, 2009, 12:13:34 pm
This has turned into a great discussion.  I mentioned that IMO a patient bears some of the responsibility of choosing a doc that meets his or her needs in an earlier post. The reason I stated some and not all of the responsibility is that many people have no choice.  They are restricted by their insurance or geographical location or other reasons. Unfortunately some folks can't shop around or leave if they are not satisfied.  In those cases, I don't hold the patient responsible.

I think you should consider changing this to "the patient bears most of the responsibility of choosing a doc that meets his or her needs".  While there may be some cases where the patient has limited options, by and large those limitations are put on themselves.  The convenience of going out of town, or expense of going out of town, etc.. is largely more powerful than their desire to get better care.  They tell themslves, "I MUST see this local doctor because he's the only one who treats this condition" whereas they DO have the choice of inconveniencing themselves (time, money, etc..) to go out of town.  It's not that they do not have a choice, but they're choosing to stay local for the convience.

I don't have a problem with them making that choice, but nobody should say that they do not have a choice.  They do, they just don't like that choice so they say they have no choice.

I'm in no way diminishing your outcome or that of anyone else.  Post-surgery outcomes cannot be guaranteed by ANY doctor.  Any doctor who guarantees a particular outcome is blinded by their own gawdliness and you should run for the hills if ever given that kind of guarantee.

For example, there are many Canadians that have been disatisfied with the speed of treatment in Canada, so they come to a doctor in the US.  Another example is that many people travel across the country to get treated at House and other institutions because they felt it was right for them.  Luckily, my doctors were local and were extremely good in my mind so I didn't have to travel.  If they weren't, you bet your patooty that I'd find someone in the country that I was comfortable with doing my surgery and I'd travel there to have it done.  Luckily, I wasn't faced with that choice.

I agree that this is a good discussion.  One that merits us having it.  I simply disagree that the patient has NO or SOME of the responsibility for their own choices.  Rather, I feel they bear MOST of the responsibility for choosing their doctor and location for treatment.  There are things that are out of their control (bad outcomes happen to patients of the best doctors for example) and they shouldn't be "blamed" for that, but neither should the doctor.

Regards,
Brian
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on December 02, 2009, 11:42:07 pm
Phyl -

I'm with you - from the not believing that doctors are "gawds" to the worshipping 1 or 2 myself.

Wish I would have sat at your Pirate table at lunch; that must have been a very interesting conversation.  Sorry I missed it!  (No offense to those at my table).

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: CHD63 on December 03, 2009, 07:47:03 am
Jan .....

That was one of the really neat things about the Symposium ..... all of the interaction with the medical professionals ..... personally talking with them as well as how they talked with each other.  We had an excellent large group of professionals there and they were top-notch.  Even though they disagreed with treatment protocol, they were very respectful of each other.

I have been reading this thread with interest.  Since I have never felt the need or desire to sue anyone for anything, I cannot identify with extreme dissatisfaction with any medical care I have received.  However, I have always done extensive research on whatever condition/symptoms I have had and consulted with many trusted medical friends before choosing a physician and perhaps that has resulted in my good care.  That being said, even my good results were not guaranteed with either of my brain surgeries (or several other surgeries, for that matter) because everyone's body is unique and no surgeon knows 100% what he/she will find before opening the patient.  MRIs give a "best guess" but inside the skull is a very complex area of many critical systems ..... all of which are slightly different in every person.

Clarice
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on December 03, 2009, 09:03:21 pm
That was one of the really neat things about the Symposium ..... all of the interaction with the medical professionals ..... personally talking with them as well as how they talked with each other.  We had an excellent large group of professionals there and they were top-notch.  Even though they disagreed with treatment protocol, they were very respectful of each other.

I agree.  This was one of the many incredible things about the symposium.  Meeting others - both on and off the forum - was another highlight.  And, in addition, the sessions were very informative and interesting.

I'm looking forward to Cincinnati in 2011.

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: no2hopkins on December 04, 2009, 12:28:40 pm

I don't have a problem with them making that choice, but nobody should say that they do not have a choice.  They do, they just don't like that choice so they say they have no choice.
Nobody?  Hmmm, I think this statement is a little presumptuous on your part.  There probably are people who act out of convenience, but I would say that's the exception. I am blessed with good insurance and it sounds like most of the folks on the discussion board are equally blessed, but I'm pretty sure ANs don't discriminate based on insurance options.
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: Pooter on December 04, 2009, 01:03:45 pm
I don't have a problem with them making that choice but nobody should say that they do not have a choice.  They do, they just don't like that choice - so they say they have no choice.
Nobody?  Hmmm, I think this statement is a little presumptuous on your part.  There probably are people who act out of convenience, but I would say that's the exception. I am blessed with good insurance and it sounds like most of the folks on the discussion board are equally blessed, but I'm pretty sure ANs don't discriminate based on insurance options.

Taking that statement in context, it's correct.  A person can go out of their geographic area to seek treatment.  It just may mean that they have to sell a car, take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage on their house, have a few garage sells or forgo some of lifes conveniences.  But, they are not without choice and, to me, nobody in that situation should be able to say they are not without a choice.  They have a choice, but they just don't like the choices they have.  Hard Choice != No Choices.  That was the point of the statement - if taken in context.

Regards,
Brian
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: 4cm in Pacific Northwest on December 05, 2009, 10:24:15 am
It just may mean that they have to sell a car, take a 2nd or 3rd mortgage on their house, have a few garage sells or forgo some of lifes conveniences.

You know Pooter there are some states that went from boom to bust in a very short period of time….

Oregon ANA Support Group Patient story
I had one middle aged + very intelligent woman recently come to our ANA group. She had a successful surgery in a different state and seemed very upbeat and positive at our first meeting. She made a lateral transfer out here with her career, in banking, so she could be closer to her adult children, who relocated out here for their careers. She was 25+ years with the bank in a different state and was just a few years from full retirement benefits. She and her already retired husband thought that eventually this would be a nicer climate to retire too and be closer to grandchildren. She made mistakes at work- all related to her not hearing properly. The new bank was not as accommodating and understanding as her old one, who knew her before her hearing loss (AN tumor removal) … She was fired. She returned to her 2nd ANA support group meeting not the upbeat person we initially met. One member suggest that she get a baha implant... And her response was,
 
 â€œI have no job and no health insurance. How to you propose I pay for this procedure?”

We had no answers for her. I wish I did. I just pointed her to a Medicare website but I know that the Baha would not be covered by that program. She already tried private insurance elsewhere but was discriminated against for her preexisting condition (acoustic neuroma).  They had already sold their home in a different state and had started to set themselves up for the limited income of retired pensioners for down the road.

Please also know we have another member who actually DID have to sell their house and move in with an aging parent. Life has been very challenging for her since… she would love to go out-of-state for some specialized care- but simply cannot. I do not think her depression is caused by the AN tumor but more the circumstance that she has found herself in.

I have another very dear friend, who is retirement age, and she did take care of her retirement planning in addition to setting up funds to cover any unexpected medical cost that may arise in her “old age”… or so she thought. Her investor was through Bernie Madoff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

Just because the swindler went to jail does not mean the victims were compensated

Please know that I have seen many families 2nd and 3rd mortgage their houses and to some this is what happens when the economy dries up...

http://www.opb.org/thinkoutloud/shows/no-place-call-home-families/

These are the very people that can only go where Medicare is offered… and often these socioeconomically disadvantaged people become victims (a second time  :-\) to medical practitioners who do not treat them with dignity.

I have seen one too many people here raised in rural communities who I feel were not exposed to the best educational opportunities. They are very challenged to get on the Internet and research, as many forum-ites here do, as they simply do not have the research or the writing skills to do so…. Heck knows the ability to research the best treatment options… and which doctors already have a record of treating their patients poorly.

Read this one
http://www.partnershiptoendpoverty.org/In-The-News/331553.aspx

So these are the people who fall victim to NOT having the freedom to go out-of-state and can fall victim to being treated poorly by an arrogant and incompetent medical practitioner. These are the very people who will feel pressured to sign the GAG order ... or worse agree to experimental surgery for the sake of a medical student to get-some-practice in a dissection lab with less than adequate supervision.

So Pooter what if the bank already took back their home after they were unable to make the 2nd or 3rd mortgaged house payment, the car was already repossessed and they no longer have an abundance of “stuff” to sell in the garage being that they no longer even have a garage?  ???  They could not find work so these things were lost… as they had NO means left to make the payments.... What if they are not able to find another job in the market that has such a high unemployment rate … or worse their already 25-year+ track record of being a good employee is suddenly scarred by their most recent discriminatory employer -because of their hearing deficit? What about the facial paralysis victim who is trying to make a good 1st impression at a job interview  :-\  and is discriminated against because ignorant people assume they had a stroke or something and that they have brain damage?

Pooter -I am seeing your view here to be more insular than global.

Please take some time read on this Google search thread I have produced for you.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=tent+cities&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


Many nonprofit and/or faith based organizations are closing their doors- as their resources have simply dried up.

And what does the Wall Street Journal have to say about the current jobless rate? Here is a video...

http://online.wsj.com/video/positive-jobs-report-not-so-positive/9C389F14-A13F-4720-8BF8-9536B905D0B0.html

Know Pooter that I have always enjoyed your posts and often find that you have given me a giggle or two. :D  Even though I sat here, with my eggnog latte reading what you said here, and I got all riled up- know that I STILL like you  :)… and you do look cute in that toque. :-* (Snow in Texas yesterday :o... You will need it there!)

Daisy Head Mazy

P.S. Did you ever read the Grapes of Wrath in high school?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grapes_of_Wrath
I confess I have not (yet) as I did not go to High School in the USA. I plan to read it over the upcoming winter break ...alongside my teen.
My youngest child, age 11, actually brought this novel to our attention through this magazine publication she read. (She has a subscription to Kids Discover Magazine)
http://www.kidsdiscover.com/product/164/GREAT_DEPRESSION ... you know the younger generation has a lot to teach me ... but I also think I have something to teach them also. We learn from each other... HUG

Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: lori67 on December 05, 2009, 03:46:03 pm
facial paralysis victim who is trying to make a good 1st impression at a job interview  :-\  and is discriminated against because ignorant people assume they had a stroke or something and that they have brain damage?

Daisy,

Admittedly, I only scanned most of your post because once anything gets beyond 1 paragraph, my adult onset ADD kicks in and it's downhill from there.  However, I did pick up on the facial paralysis part and just wanted to comment.  As a person who has facial paralysis (I do not use the word "victim" here, as I don't see myself as one), I'd like to think that even if someone thought I had brain damage based on the way I look, they would quickly realize that's not the case when I spoke to them.  I'm pretty sure I don't sound like I have brain damage.  Well, okay, maybe before my coffee, but I wouldn't be out at a job interview before my coffee anyway.

I realize that's totally off topic and I'll save Phyl the trouble and whack my own wrist with a ruler, but I just wanted to throw that in.  Maybe I just took it the wrong way, because I'm sure you didn't mean for it to sound harsh or offensive.  I just wouldn't want any Newbies to think that on top of worrying about facial paralysis, they'll have to worry about not being able to get a job too. 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.  Carry on.
Lori
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: 4cm in Pacific Northwest on December 05, 2009, 05:48:32 pm
 Maybe I just took it the wrong way, because I'm sure you didn't mean for it to sound harsh or offensive.  I just wouldn't want any Newbies to think that on top of worrying about facial paralysis, they'll have to worry about not being able to get a job too.  

Lori,

Oh goodness, NO, I did not intend to sound harsh or offensive… Sorry.

Because I have facial paralysis and synkenisis I have too many people ask me if I had a stroke… Others I know too with this have had issues with this too.

 I was checking student's books out at the library, this week, and one student asked me,
“What happened to your hearing… and your face?”
I simply explained,
 â€œI had a benign tumor removed and the nerves were damaged in the process.”

I guess it depends on what line of work one is looking for. If you are in a front line “people position” this can be tough… be if someone who works with customers, in a teaching capacity, a public speaker, or an actor (dealing with auditions)…

I know that neuromuscular facial retraining therapy can really help people with synkenisis… that and Botox injections combined.

Side note- off topic
Here is a PDF if anyone wants to know how this works
http://ophth.wisc.edu/publications/fs_summer_04.pdf

Know that in our state, Oregon (and actually Washington State also), we do NOT have a neuromuscular facial retaining (re-education) therapist- yet. Wanda Crook just started to arrange privately to come to Portland- from San Diego. Many are still trying to advocate having her established into an institution that will accept insurance -for those who cannot go out-of-state (e.g. those insured with Blue cross, Medicaid). I can see her privately as I pay her up front …and then submit receipts to insurance for a partial reimbursement -as I DO have good insurance. Too many people I know cannot do this- at all. Truth is I may not talk too much about my treatment experiences, I will be having this week, –when at our next ANA meeting in the New Year- as I feel guilty. It will distinguish the haves and have nots in my group. All I can do is hope that eventually she will be working at the institution, we are hoping to have her at, that can bill insurance… and my ANA buddies can get this medical treatment too… that their insurance is currently discriminating them against from having…

DHM


Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: leapyrtwins on December 05, 2009, 11:10:33 pm
WOW  :o  This thread has taken all kinds of twists and turns from it's original topic.

And I'm one of those (one among many, I should add) partially responsible for it.

Since Phyl hasn't found us yet and taken out her bullwhip, I'll do it for her.

Back on topic, guys - or Steve will have to move this thread to the AN Community section!!!

How'd I do, Phyl?  ;)

Jan
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: 4cm in Pacific Northwest on December 06, 2009, 12:38:08 am
Jan,

Gee, I am not sure what Pearly Whites or Stevie has to say... but I think you would make a great mod!

Yah... we should probably either move it to the community section or agree to stay within the context of the "Dr Gag Order" thread...

DHM
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: sgerrard on December 06, 2009, 01:03:39 am
I think the topic and the sidebars are too medical for AN Community. Actually I was more worried that the gloves might come off when somebody called Pooter presumptuous. Fortunately it has remained a civil discussion despite being so lively. Besides, I can follow how doctor evaluation leads to patient responsibility, which leads to jobs and insurance issues, which leads to facial issues and 2nd mortgages, which leads to neuromuscular facial retraining therapy. Kind of.  ::)

So yes, it would be best to return to the subject of doctors and patients, and for everyone to remain calm about it.  ;)

Steve
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: CHD63 on December 06, 2009, 08:11:50 am
Whew!  Thanks, Steve.  I was getting nervous about the way this thread was evolving .....

Clarice
Title: Re: contract with dr to not rate them on line
Post by: ppearl214 on December 06, 2009, 08:16:11 am
How'd I do, Phyl?  ;)

working for my job and the keys to the Mod Leer Jet, eh? ;) :)  Ya done fine!

Hi all,
I'm with Steve on this.  Just need to tone this back down a wee bit.  Internet forums (regardless of which website) can stir emotions and for this site, sharing of info regarding AN's is truly welcome... sharing of experience to help newbies always appreciated.  Hot debates, when done respectfully, alway thankful.  Hot debates that become out of line or put others down.... not acceptable.

We can all agree to disagree and ask that everyone keeps respect to it... and I thank you.

The whip is certainly out..... but will only ask that all follow Steve's note to keep on topic and remain calm.  Appreciate everyone's efforts in doing so. If it goes outta whack, Pm's will be sent and comments deleted, if need be.

I'm in migraine mode folks.  Let's keep this friendly, ok? :)

thanks,
Phyl