ANA Discussion Forum
General Category => AN Issues => Topic started by: amylynn on October 08, 2006, 04:31:10 pm
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The Otologist that I had a consult with said that I have a compressed 4th ventricle. What does this mean? I looked in Gray's Anatomy and am confused.  Neuro-nurse??  Anyone?????
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amylynn:
CF fluid flows through the ventricles. Which does what, I was not clear on so I found a easy to read ventricle explaination:
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/vent.html
Hope this helps. I have a hard time understanding real doctor lingo so I like this site.
Kathy
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Hi Amylynn,
The name of the ex-neuro nurse is tcrnko. Send him/her personal message?
Flier58
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An Otologist at house?  If it was completely compressed I think they'd have concerns about hydrocephalus and you'd be having at least shunt surgery right away...I'd be surprised if that was the case at 2.5 cm.  CSF flows freely in your cerebral area, flowing up to the top, down through the ventricles and out the 4th ventricle through a small tube and the cycle starts all over again, kind of like a smaller version of blood circulation.  The 4th ventricle is a chamber area in your brain.  The people who I've seen on here with a completely compressed 4th have been more at the 4-5 cm range.  You're scheduled for house, I'd check with them about that if it wasn't them who said it. ÂÂ
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I re- read the doc's notes, I need to make a clarification, he said the 4th ventricle is "flattened". Sorry. Thank you for all of your helpful input and it was not an otologist at House. However, it was in the referral he sent to House. I got a copy of it on Saturday.
Thanks again: Gennysmom, Flier58 and Obita
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OK, that's better...good luck on your upcoming surgery! Just having translab myself, I can say it sounds a lot worse than it is...it was my first surgery ever and I was nervous, but felt good about what I was doing. The last 3 months now seem like they've flown by.
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My 4th ventricle was "compressed" on diagnosis...no one seemed overly concerned with it. I know I researched it but for the life of me can't recall now what I was told :( I used to have the memory of an elephant and no it's more like a gold fish >:(
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What is the 4th ventricle?
Cerebro-Spinal Fluid (CSF) is produced in the right and left ventricles then flows into a 3rd ventricle (connecting the two) in the mid-upper brain then through the 4th ventricle and down around the spinal column, circulating back up the column to be reabsorbed around the brain. If the 4th ventricle was blocked, you would develop hydrocephalus and need to have a shunt placed to direct the flow or CSF out of your brain and usually down into the abdomon. The 4th ventricle can be compressed or flattened without obstructing flow. It is only when flow is totally obstructed that it becomes a real issue.
If you wake up with a massive headache after surgery, it is because the CSF was released when your tumor was removed. Even though the brain can't live without oxygen, it likes its oxygen comsumption via the bloodstream. When the air hits the brain, then brain becomes very unhappy. (Spinal Headache is an example of this.) The headache will come and go until sufficient CSF has been produced to circulate through the system and cover the brain again.
Hope I answered some of the question. Like battyprincess, my memory isn't what it used to be........
Goo Luck
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I give you an A!
You sounded so authorative :-*
See it pays to know the right people guys ;D
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Just remember that even the "right people" can learn from someone who has "been there and done that."
Thanks for the "A". Anatomy was a looong time ago.
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hi! is it (cfs) really produced in the top part? the 1st and 2nd venticles? I actually don't have a clue where the CSF is produced.....
Which leads me to ask, where the heck is it produced?
I suppose i ask this this as I have been aware of aners who have not had 4th involved before they had a shunt... so i have to say I am a bit confused now....
Windsong
What is the 4th ventricle?
Cerebro-Spinal Fluid (CSF) is produced in the right and left ventricles then flows into a 3rd ventricle (connecting the two) in the mid-upper brain then through the 4th ventricle and down around the spinal column, circulating back up the column to be reabsorbed around the brain. If the 4th ventricle was blocked, you would develop hydrocephalus and need to have a shunt placed to direct the flow or CSF out of your brain and usually down into the abdomon. The 4th ventricle can be compressed or flattened without obstructing flow. It is only when flow is totally obstructed that it becomes a real issue.
If you wake up with a massive headache after surgery, it is because the CSF was released when your tumor was removed. Even though the brain can't live without oxygen, it likes its oxygen comsumption via the bloodstream. When the air hits the brain, then brain becomes very unhappy. (Spinal Headache is an example of this.) The headache will come and go until sufficient CSF has been produced to circulate through the system and cover the brain again.
Hope I answered some of the question. Like battyprincess, my memory isn't what it used to be........
Goo Luck
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Yes.
CSF (CerebroSpinal Fluid) is produced in the right and left ventricles of the brain. 4th ventricle involvement is not necessarily limited to ANers, in fact I don't know what kind of stats would show 4th ventricle involvement.
Head trauma and genetics can cause 4th ventricle problems.
Many times a shunt is placed for the control of hydrocephalus without 4th ventricle involvement. If I remember correctly, you can have "communicating hydrocephalus" which is a hydrocephalus for no apparent physical reason. A shunt would be placed to control this.
What I am saying is that the AN and hydrocephalus may not be parts of the same problem, though sometimes they could be.
Hope this clears some of the confusion.
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Thanks for the info, truly helpful. I really want to understand all of the things that the doc speaks about , I am a huge control freak. Not good in my situation, I realize. I hope you don't start charging for consults.
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Hi, and thanks, I only saw this right now....
Windsong
Yes.
CSF (CerebroSpinal Fluid) is produced in the right and left ventricles of the brain. 4th ventricle involvement is not necessarily limited to ANers, in fact I don't know what kind of stats would show 4th ventricle involvement.
Head trauma and genetics can cause 4th ventricle problems.
Many times a shunt is placed for the control of hydrocephalus without 4th ventricle involvement. If I remember correctly, you can have "communicating hydrocephalus" which is a hydrocephalus for no apparent physical reason. A shunt would be placed to control this.
What I am saying is that the AN and hydrocephalus may not be parts of the same problem, though sometimes they could be.
Hope this clears some of the confusion.
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(I What I am saying is that the AN and hydrocephalus may not be parts of the same problem, though sometimes they could be.)
I'm not a doctor or anyone special in the medical field but with larger tumors, and location there is a direct relationship between the AN and the 4th ventricle..
Quoting part of the MRI Report " shows a strongly enhancing mass in the posterior fossa that is intra-axial in it's position. It obscures and obstructs the fourth ventrical, with resulting hydrocephalus of the third and fourth ventricles. There is substantial mural enhancement, and there is surrounding edema present in the posterior fossa."
Definitely part of the same problem. In fact in the beginning the hydrocephalus was the first major problem which due to the extend of it became a very serious medical problem. The hydro had to be treated first. It's important to share that that this was a 6 cm tumor.
I think that most of the people with the very large AN tumors will report fourth ventricle involvement.
Bets to all
Raydean
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Yes, you have it right typically 3-4-5-6 cm tumours eventually start to
compress/interfere with the 4th and Hydro is often a consequence
Post radiation treatment swelling can sometimes cause the same thing.
About 1-2% of the time a tumour of 0.5-2 cms causes a form of Hyro
where there is no obstruction as such (its too small to block the flow)
Basically the fluid level output increases or thickens somehow
as a result of the tumour - bodies defense mechanism perhaps (?)
Thankfully rare - but they do happen
Best regards
Tony
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Agree with Tony.
Any time the tumor gets large it can impact the 4th ventricle. Not sure if I was clear in my first statement, but it is the blockage of the 4th ventricle that causes the hydrocephalus, from whatever source. That is why I said that it could be the AN, and also other sources.
If I could charge for cousults, I wouldn't be worried about employment after my surgery like others. Unfortunately, nurses cannot charge "fee for service". And, on this site especially, I wouldn't dare to keep from "kin" whatever little knowledge I have.