ANA Discussion Forum
AN Community => AN Community => Topic started by: Keri on February 04, 2010, 11:17:06 pm
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Hi,
Some of you know about my family - oldest daughter is autistic and lives at home, middle one is in the USAF, and my 'baby' is 16. She comes across as so personable, sweet, funny, silly, creative. But she has struggled with panic attacks and now depression and even some self injurious behavior. She thinks she has no friends (but honestly, she really does have a good core group of friends who care), she gets totally stressed about school (we don't put undo pressure on her), and she gets really stressed out in new social situations (which I wish she could see that this is natural and many of us do). I had wanted to avoid her getting on anti-depressants, but then we came to a point where we needed to do something else than just counseling. So she started some meds almost 2 weeks ago. The last few days she started getting really anxious about school again and just seemed worse, her mood was dark and dull (as in, lifeless - she's usually so much more lively). I tried to get her up for school the other days and she started getting ready then just fell down. Tried to get her up again... seeing if she could just push herself to make it at least through lunch, thinking that once she got to school she'd get her mind off her depression. But that didn't work. She just sat there and said she wanted to die. Took her back to the doc - after talking to her he wasn't convinced that she wouldn't do something to harm herself, so he recommended hospitalization. So, now she's in an adolescent psychiatrict unit and will remain there for a week or more, until they feel she's safe to go home.
Here's some of my questions and misconceptions about depression -
is there a forum like this one? or a good internet site about depression that any of you would recommend?
i tend to be the type that says, ' just DO something... don't just sit there because it will just get worse.. you'll dwell on it more, etc' since i don't understand this type of depression, this total apathy is confusing. i'm learning that it may not be due to 'something big' that happened to her. in fact, she just doens't know why she's depressed.
i'm trying to work with her on some hobbies she enjoys (baking) that we can do together to help someone (give away the baked good, care packages, etc). i guess i always felt this type of thing would, again, get their mind off what's wrong.
i have to balance these 'get moving and motivated' ideas with the fact that this is a chemical thing and she really needs help. just seeing her and feeling so badly over her hopelessness is difficult -what can we do to help?
that said - she does dramatize things sometimes - how to you know when it's an exaggeration and when it's real?
my husband and i just need to learn more. we don't want to be afraid to set limits, discipline, etc just because she might 'melt down.'
finally, it's just hard to see your child, with so many good positive things going for her (she's just a wonderful girl) feeling so bad about herself.
we have such limited visiting hours, and the place is kind of far away. we're about to get smacked with a huge snow storm and probably won't be able to see her until sunday or monday now.
prayers and advice are welcome!
thank you to all my AN friends,
keri
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Oh Keri, my prayers are with you. Check to see if you have a local NAMI (National Association for Mental Illness) chapter. They can help you find support groups. If there is no local group there should be a state one. They will also have tons of educational material available to answer your may questions.
From your post it sounds like she may need an adjustment in medication. It can take up to six weeks for depression medications to become effective, and sometimes they work differently on adolescents than for adults.
Finally, don't blame yourself or worry about looking for an event that triggered this. As you said, it is a chemical imbalance and it can be treated successfully.
Best wishes to you and your daughter. I'll keep her (and you) in my prayers.
Sara
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Keri -
I don't really have any suggestions for you, but Saralynn's sound very good.
Prayers to you and your daughter,
Jan
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Keri, sorry I don't have experience with this or any magical words to offer, but I can offer prayers to you and your daughter. It sounds like you are doing the best you can.
Patrick
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Keri
My heart goes out to you iwth tons of prayers...It does take time for med to work and it takes time to find the right meds..I know, my partner is manic depressive and it has taken some time to find the right meds...Finally, last yr we saw a new doc and this doc put him on new meds...What a different person.
JO
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Keri
This must be so difficult for you and my heart goes out to you and your family. I do have some experience with teenagers and have dealt with depression myself. I agree with Sara, it takes time for meds to work and then you have to find the right medicine and the right dose. Your daughter getting worse after starting medication is a red flag to me. Please don't beat yourself up about this is sounds to me as if you are doing all the right things.
Any of us that have had teenagers, especially girls, and I have had both, know that they do tend to be dramatic and blow things out of proportion. I hope she can get the help she needs with the right Dr's and medication.
God Bless You and give you strength. You are in my prayers. Sue
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Oh Keri, my heart is just breaking for you...I know this must be tearing you up. Know that you, your daughter and your entire family is in my prayers and that I know that God will guide you thru this difficult time. I also don't have any answers to your questions but want to offer my support. Do you think it is any way related to the fact that she has a sibling with special needs and considerations? I only ask this because one of my very good friends has a son with Down syndrome and she is always very concerned about this for her other son...PEACE to you all during this stressful time...
Love & Hugs to you!
K
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Oh, Keri.. you're right.. your life is not dull!
I don't have any first-hand experience with any of the things you're dealing with so I don't have any advice to offer. I hope the doctor can find a medication that works for her - I do know that sometimes it takes some trial and error to get the right one. It must be hard to be patient in the mean time, but know that you are doing the best thing for her. You're keeping her safe and that's your job as a mom.
I do recall being a teenage girl was difficult - and I can only imagine that it's much more difficult these days and I'm sure she's under a lot of stress from all angles. I hope the doctors and counselors will help her find a way to deal with it all.
I will keep your family in my prayers. Keep us posted.
Lori
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Keri,
As the others have said, I have no magic words but offer earnest prayers and good thoughts to get you and your loved ones through this experience. My heart aches for you because I know what it is like to be helpless while watching a loved one in pain. Keep in touch and know that we are here to listen.
Priscilla
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Keri, I am sorry to hear of the anguish you and family are going thru. This has to be so hard when one doesn't really know what they need to do to be of the best help. I do know that some anti depressants can cause problems in teenagers to make them have worse problems. Mine comes with a warning paper about this with every refill. The dr has to know about this and may be why he wanted her to be in the care she is for the time being. You need to be able to talk to us or a depression group to help keep you going ok. Hang in there and take it all day by day.
Cheryl R
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I am so sorry I wish I had more to offer but my daughter around 14 to 16 we went through alot I had her go to a psycotherapist and it seem to help maybe when your daughter comes home have her go somewhere local and talk to either a clergy or therapist maybe she will open up to them along with medication if one does not work have them try something else.
My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family.
Pat
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Keri,
It may be a good thing that there is going to be a snow storm...from what I am told by a good friend (the administrator at an adolescent mental health facility near me) kids who are admitted need time away from family. She says that they need a down time and to find out what is really going on with them without the pressure of putting on a "good" face for family and friends. As hard as it is listen to what the care center says. I am sure you will be involved in some of her therapy sessions. Your daughter may have a chemical imbalance and just need some meds and some "talk" sessions. These are very hard times for kids. They see parents losing jobs, worry about siblings going to war, the peer pressure in high schools is at an all time high, so are the expectations to succeed in all fields of endeavour. Life i s hard for a lot of kids. She may be facing being bullied over something at school. Talk to her friends or her friend's parents. Talk to her teachers, ask them what has changed in her in their eyes.
My sixteen year old grand daughter suffered form seizures. She had every test known to man and woman. Nothing could be found. One very wise and smart child neurologist suggested a different kind of blood test and a new look at an MRI of her brain. Very evident in the work she did was a chemical imbalance. When she takes her tiny pill everyday, there are no more seizures, no more panic attacks, no more need for anger management. Through therapy she has learned how to divert her anger in useful ways.
I am keeping you, your daughter and the rest of your family in my thoughts and prayers. Your daughter has a lot on her plate with a brother in the Air Force (worry) and a sister who is autistic. That's a lot of a parent, but for a teen going through so many changing it can be life altering.
Hugs,
Brenda
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Keri,
My heart goes out to you and your family. Good responses by all.
(My youngest of 3 is a 16 year old male. I worry about him a lot. He's a very smart kid, but holds things in, doesn't communicate well,will get sullen when under a lot of stress. It's like pulling teeth to get him to talk sometime.)
It is such a tough time for teens right now, especially the girls as mentioned. Sounds like you have good communication going on, she just needs to work through her "issues" and find the right medication.
Hang in there, prayers to your daughter to come through this as painlessly as possible. YOU TOO.
Maureen
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Hello from another Marylander!
It sounds like you are really doing everything for her you can reasonably be expected to do, and then some. Hopefully this little 'vacation' will give her time in a safe place to get the meds working (I'm sure they told you it's common for things to get worse before they get better on antidepressants) before coming back to 'real life'. Hopefully they will hook her up with some good resources as well.
You could refer her to the group "To Write Love On Her Arms". I think they are kind of geared more towards teens/young adults and have a lot of resources listed on their page - http://www.twloha.com/find-help/ (http://www.twloha.com/find-help/)
We will keep you all in our thoughts! good luck with the snow - just started coming down over here.
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Hi Keri,
My thoughts and prayers are with you, your daughter and your family at this time.
Please see my PM.
Sincerely,
Sue
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Keri ~
Although most of can't offer specific advice due to a lack of experience with this issue (teen-age depression) we can certainly empathize with you - especially the folks who are parents - and do what we do best: offer you our wholehearted support as you and your family struggle with this vexing problem. Of course, your daughter, you and your husband will be in our prayers. I truly hope your girl, with the help of doctors and, most of all, her loving parents, can find her way back to normalcy soon.
Jim
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Kari,
I must tell you my heart does go out to you and your family. When we were in high school and my sister was 15 she went through the same thing your daughter is goig through now. She was consumed with depression, she did not want to go to school, see or talk with any of her friends. My mom found it very difficult to even get her out of bed. All she wanted to do was sleep all day. One day she swallowed a whole bottle of tylenol. My mom took her to the ER and because she made an attempt to harm herself. She was hospitalized. In the youth hospital she went to. They were really able to give her the help she really need. It did take several medications before her Dr was able to find one that worked for her. My sister came through it ok, she stayed in the hospital for 3 months and contunited counsuling for several years afterwards. She was able to go off her medication after one year. I wanted to tell you this to encourge you. My sister is now 36 and has been a very happy well adjusted person, and was able to over come all the problems she had with depesstion in her teen years.
You will be in my prayers,
Ginger
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Hi Keri,
Believe it or not tonight while I was at the club I read an article in the paper about depression. I keep the In Life section of our paper and read it at the club, I collect the paper through out the year so in the Winter when I go to the club I have something I enjoy to read. It has helpful info., food recipes & the comics, etc. I mention this because it is odd that tonight I read the article from last June then when I get on the board I see your post. Hopefully a little bit of what the article says can help in some way. The article suggests that all teens be screened for depression because it is so prevalent amongst that age group. I realize it doesn't help much to know that your daughter isn't alone. They stress the fact that they wish more time was spent trying to find out what is causing the depression and instead of doing some testing then prescribing medication. They believe that more teens could be helped by getting to the source of the problem then by medicating. One girl went to "art therapy" - painting or making sculptures with a therapist who simultaneously used the sessions to draw out the teenager's emotional problems. The girls sister had recently died and she wasn't able to deal with it on her own. When I read Kaybo's post it made me think of the article I read, perhaps your daughter is worried about her older sisters & how it affects her life. Perhaps she has added in your medical issues as well. I can't speak about your oldest daughters Autistic issues but I can about your middle daughters involvement in the USAF as my youngest has been in the Army for 7 years. I know that affects how my husband & I feel as it does our oldest son, it actually changes our daily lives. Of course you know that. I'm truly hoping that your daughter is just over stressed about being a teenager and confused about how to deal with that and/or some issues with her siblings and that a good long talk(or several good long talks) with someone that will listen to her and help her figure out why she feels the way she does, will help her. As much as we wish we as parents could be that person, we just can't sometimes. Take Care, Jill
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Thank you everyone. It helps to read the advice and similar stories.
We are totally snowed in. I get to call Noely on the phone but probably won't see her until Monday. She does have friends there at the hospital (a bunch of other adolescent girls) and she likes how everyone is open with each other.
I know the Lord will help us through this. I am learning more talking to a few other parents. It is kind of a bummer that the medication takes so long to see which will work, what it will do, etc. One of her social workers suggested to me that her having a special needs sister could affect her. I don't know why, but I had never thought about that.
I'll keep you posted. Thanks as always for prayer and support.
Going to go do some some shovel therapy!
Keri
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Keri,
HUGS to you and your daughter.
The GOOD thing is that there is identification that there is a problem… (That is THE biggest step)
Physiological (medical ) issues
Somethings that you may want to rule out:
Seasonal affective disorder (SAD)
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder
• http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/seasonal-affective-disorder/DS00195
PMS Depression?
• http://www.all-on-depression-help.com/pms-depression.html
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_syndrome
Serotonin deficiency?
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin
• http://www.livestrong.com/article/29871-signs-serotonin-deficiency/
Diabetes undiagnosed ?
• http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/diabetes-and-depression/AN02011
•
Know I am NOT a medical practioner but a former high school teacher who has written many referrals and has seen various outcomes.
Psychological Issues ?
Often there is also a psychological aspect to this… and self-esteem often can be related to the distorted sense of beauty get- when teens are exposed to the media
Self image issues?
I have often used this video to prompt discussion with high school-age girls
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U
And this one with middle school and younger
• http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1731400614466797113#
There is currently a very dangerous girl culture out there that many parent s are not aware of.
No doubt you are aware that many younger girls get caught up into the Disney “Hannah Montana†pop culture scene. Many parents think this is very innocent.
There is real life role model behind that actress Miley Cyrus who plays Hannah Montana. Many people (parents) do NOT realize the behind the scene scandals ("Miley Cyrus Vanity Fair" photos) that have happened with that actress (much as Brittany Spears was exploited) and that that teen actor is now retaliating back with her own mean girl culture… and media work.
Miley Cyrus now has her own video(s) that has caused much concern amidst parents, teachers and counselors (this is geared at very young girls. In my youngest daughters former 4th grade class some of the girls were singing it and acting it out on the playground.)
Watch this
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5an4vN6bFnc
(I personally find this VERY disturbing)
I am now realizing that my (then) 13 year-old daughter also went through a certain amount of trauma when I returned home from AN tumor surgery with many complications. (She would not share this with me as she felt I had enough on my plate with my recovery …and did not want to worry me. Role reversal almost as she was trying to protect me.) When she saw me with a walker, 1/2 deaf, and total facial palsy (was a 6 on the HB scale initially) she was privately trying to deal with this at an impressionable and vulnerable age. I did not have full facial nerve recovery and I know this is hard for her when she sees how other girls (and even Mom’s) respond/react to me- when they do not know the circumstances or me as a person (ie not just a face). We are in a culture that places WAY too much emphasis in superficial beauty… in this scary PLASTIC era of “girl cultureâ€. Now she is more mature and a sophomore in high school she has since shared with me how cruel the girls in middle school were to her- particularly my 1st year after surgery when I was still in recovery.
(Know I have pulled daughter #2 out of that school at her request once I realized how dysfunctional and toxic that parochial school community was there. I was amazed at how many parents were so obsessed with their own personal and professional fulfillment that they just paid others (tuition) to raise their kids… and were so clueless as to what was going on with their child’s peers- at school, and at sleep over’s etc.)
I have also known teens to hit a deep depression after a traumatic event – or what they "felt" was a traumatic event.
Post Traumatic stress is something to consider
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder
While your daughter is away in care, for a stint, you may want to do some investigation as to what was actually going on in her peer culture girl word. Try to find out what music she was listening to, what she was watching … and what websites might be in her cache history. There may be something going on she is not willing to divulge to others (parents). However you will have to be SOOH careful how this is done.
Often people who are very depressed feel overwhelmed and powerless in their lives. If it is perceived that she is being controlled- this can magnify this.
I often found, back when I was teaching in the ‘80’s, that psychologists and physiciatrist did not always see eye to eye. Hopefully over the years there is more respect and understanding of the two approaches to problem solving- especially in teenage depression.
Similar to other medical issues- the recovery takes a team approach.
It would be helpful if your daughter’s recovery team included:
• A pediatrician
• An OBGYN who can help with hormone issues that could be magnifying depression.
• A psychiatrist
• A counseling psychologist
• A good healthy peer age friend/confidant
• All parent parties
It is nice if there is open communication and they are all on the "same page" as far as treatment. ( :) Kind of like having a neurotologist, a neurosurgeon, am ENT, a PC, and a physical therapist, and ophthalmologist, ALL working to together to get a AN patient recovered- as a comparison model)
It is also important to keep that fact that she is being "hospitalized for mental health" as confidential as possible- so when she does come out she can face teachers, peers and others- not feeling she is being "talked or gossiped' about (which again will make her feel embarrassed and powerless)
It is important the she is empowered to indentify the problem and issues that are overwhelming her (even if these are chemical or physiological) … so she is the one in control (and not feeling powerless) driving down recovery road.
Here is a GREAT resource link
Teen Depression
A GUIDE FOR PARENTS AND TEACHERS
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/depression_teen.htm
Be sure that you also get support for YOU (the caregiver)
MEGA CYBER HUGS being sent your way- from Oregon.
DHM
(Fellow Mom of teenage and TWEENage girls)
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is there a forum like this one? or a good internet site about depression that any of you would recommend?
Here is one
http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=support_findsupportlanding
I do not know of it but it was linked to the website “helpguide.org†I gave you on my above post
Teen Depression
A GUIDE FOR PARENTS AND TEACHERS
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/depression_teen.htm
This is who helpguide.org is and what they are all about
http://www.helpguide.org/about.htm
Hope you can glean something in there that will be helpful to you and your daughter.
DHM
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is there a forum like this one? or a good internet site about depression that any of you would recommend?
Here is one
http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=support_findsupportlanding
I do not know of it but it was linked to the website “helpguide.org†I gave you on my above post
Teen Depression
A GUIDE FOR PARENTS AND TEACHERS
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/depression_teen.htm
This is who helpguide.org is and what they are all about
http://www.helpguide.org/about.htm
Hope you can glean something in there that will be helpful to you and your daughter.
DHM
Oh, my DazyHazyMazy, you rawk! Thanks for sharing all of this very valuable info! :-*
xo
Pearly Whites ;D
Keri, you know I have thoughts and prayers that things will calm down, fall into place and things will turn around for you all. I have been following along and send good vibes your way that this insight folks have shared here will be helpful. Hang in there, Keri!
xo
Phyl
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It's been a while since i responded to this post. Things got really crazy with the 3 snow storms. We lost power (and internet, etc) for 3 days. Things are sort of back to normal. I so appreciate your thoughtful comments and website links (WOW DHM - your helpful response probably took hours - thank you)!. Several of you have PM'd me and i haven't had the chance to even reply to your nice notes.
Things were going better but took a bad turn last night. My daughter is backk in the hospital. Most of the time she seems fine, with some depression and school stress and other teen things, but then there are times this - whatever it is - takes such a dark turn and she wants to die. Last night she had a bad episode of cutting (not life threatening, but extremely scary nontheless) and we called 911 and she was taken to the hospital, then readimitted to the psychiatric hospital.
I've been through some things in life, but this is taking the cake. All the confusion - which med? no med (my preference)? is this hospital right or is it making her worse? how can we know she's not going to be suicidal in 5 minutes when she seems fine now? etc etc When you see her at her best or even what we would say is her normal, you would never believe she was struggling like this. Nothing specific seems to set these dark moods of wanting to die off.
Anyway, sorry for all the gloom and doom. My husband is really taking it rough. Please pray for all of us - for wisdom in treatment, for her to have hope and peace, for her 'real' self to come back. I hope I don't freak anyone out with all these details or too much information.
Thank you all,
Keri
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Keri,
HUGS to you and your daughter.
The GOOD thing is that there is identification that there is a problem… (That is THE biggest step)
It would be helpful if your daughter’s recovery team included:
• A pediatrician
• An OBGYN who can help with hormone issues that could be magnifying depression.
• A psychiatrist
• A counseling psychologist
• A good healthy peer age friend/confidant
• All parent parties
It is nice if there is open communication and they are all on the "same page" as far as treatment. ( :) Kind of like having a neurotologist, a neurosurgeon, am ENT, a PC, and a physical therapist, and ophthalmologist, ALL working to together to get a AN patient recovered- as a comparison model)
It is also important to keep that fact that she is being "hospitalized for mental health" as confidential as possible- so when she does come out she can face teachers, peers and others- not feeling she is being "talked or gossiped' about (which again will make her feel embarrassed and powerless)
It is important the she is empowered to indentify the problem and issues that are overwhelming her (even if these are chemical or physiological) … so she is the one in control (and not feeling powerless) driving down recovery road.
DHM
(Fellow Mom of teenage and TWEENage girls)
Oh Keri - Here are more hugs from me to you, your husband, your daughter, and extended family.
What a challenging time you are having...but you know we are ALL pulling for you!
DHM stated so many practical items - things we often don't see as parents or ones close to the situation.
I agree about a treatment 'team' - and if you have to research/select these docs like you do the ones for AN treatment, than that is ok.
In particular, i agree with DHM's final statement, "It is important that she is empowered to identify the problem and issues that are overwhelming her, so she is the one in control..." In my experience, this is one of the hardest parts - trying to explain to a younger person to take control, don't let 'it' control you, and be proactive when seeking assistance.
I am thinking of you and your family today and saying many, many, many more prayers.
May your daughter find hope and peace (soon) in the coming days.
Sincerely,
Sue
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Oh Keri, I had hoped that things were getting better...I will just pray harder. Those are just tough years & tougher for some than others. Have there been any talk of her just being overwhelmed by a brother in the service (&her fear of deployment for him) & a sister with special needs? I would think that along with regular teen hormones and stuff would just about break me!
Love you girl...hope this season passes SOON!
K
I Peter 5:7 - "Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you."
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Keri -
prayers to you and yours.
Jan
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Things were going better but took a bad turn last night. My daughter is backk in the hospital. Most of the time she seems fine, with some depression and school stress and other teen things, but then there are times this - whatever it is - takes such a dark turn and she wants to die. Last night she had a bad episode of cutting (not life threatening, but extremely scary nontheless) and we called 911 and she was taken to the hospital, then readimitted to the psychiatric hospital.
I've been through some things in life, but this is taking the cake. All the confusion - which med? no med (my preference)? is this hospital right or is it making her worse? how can we know she's not going to be suicidal in 5 minutes when she seems fine now? etc etc When you see her at her best or even what we would say is her normal, you would never believe she was struggling like this. Nothing specific seems to set these dark moods of wanting to die off.
This should have you VERY concerned. Are there any signs that your daughter is part of the "Emo" culture at high school?
“EMO†Defined
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo
Here is an article worth a read
http://www.helium.com/items/724442-the-negative-effects-of-emo-culture
Quote from the article
On a more dangerous level is the cliche of cutting. Emo kids are known for this breed of self-destruction. Usually cutting is a cry for attention or even an attempt to look cool, as strange as that sounds. It is usually not synonymous with suicide attempts or even being suicidal, though these are not unheard of amongst emo kids as well. However, that does not make the practice any less disturbing. Some teenagers have even killed themselves on accident through cutting. The idea that a culture is perpetuating the idea of slicing your body open with dirty razorblades is clearly a cause for distress.
Cutting is actually very serious... and should NOT be taken lightly. Again I suggest that you do some investigation into her cultural world... but again as I mentioned before be SOOH careful as to how this is done. You will need to look at Internet sites she has visited, listen to her music (I-pod, MP3 etc) and find out “if†she has a negative influential peer that is dominating her. It also would to be wise to see “if†she is involved in drugs... as what "could" be happening is you are witnessing her coming down (from a high).
Here is a link to the Emo culture's rebuttal to this... (ie pro-EMO)... they have their right of free speech. Nevertheless I still see this as a "cult" ... that caring loving parents need to direct their kids (teens almost young adults) AWAY from
http://www.luv-emo.com/emo-cutting.html
For some kids this culture can just be a "passing fad" as they try to find their place in high school and later in adult youth society... and nothing more. (We all did wild things against our parents values at one time or another- teen rebellion is normal.) For others, who are more deeply already troubled, this can be a very dangerous CULT to participate in.
It is important that parents are informed as to what prevalent teen cultures are out there. Many think because their kids are at home they are in a safe environment- meanwhile right under there noses their kid is on the internet with people they would never allow into the home... as the parent is oblivious. When a teens life is threatened then it is time to open the closet, look into the computer's cache, get the cell phone statement of what is specifically in those text messages etc.
Keri- you and your family are in my prayers. GIANORMOUS HUGS to you.
Daizy Head Mazy (DHM)
P.S. Maybe you can glean some good helpful resources from this link
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/self_injury.htm
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Keri, So sorry to hear that your daughter is back in the hospital. As so many have said, teen years are hard and there is no quick fix. DHM has really given you a lot of good info., hopefully between that, your research and the doctors they can help your daughter feel good about life again. My oldest was quite depressed for over a year and through counseling is doing much better now, enrolled in college, has minor setbacks now and then but don't we all. Don't hesitate to let us know how it's going, Jill
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So sorry to hear about your daughter Keri. I can't imagine anything hurting more than seeing her go through this. Our thought are with her and you.
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Keri .....
I was away from the forum for quite awhile and am just now catching up with this thread. You have not posted on this thread for over a week. I hope and pray it means things have been going better.
Having taken three kids through the teenage years, I know it is not an easy time. The smarter and more sensitive they are, the harder those years are ..... I suspect your daughter is both.
My thoughts and many prayers.
Clarice
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Thank you everyone.
Hi Clarice!!! I've been wondering how you were doing! I'm on the forum off and on and have many times thought,'Where is Clarice?!' You're always so helpful and encouraging to so many. Want to be more 'on' but I've really gotten away from keeping up with all the newbies! I wish I could keep up with everyone like I used to. Anyway, when I am here, it's always encouraging.
Noely's still in the hospital - hopefully will be out soon. They she'll go to a day program then transition back into school.
I've learned a lot about depression and my 'judgements' about it - not really understanding people who had it/have it more severely than just the average ups and downs of life.
The hard thing about Noely's depression is that she can look so happy so much! So you don't 'buy' it when she says she's so down (well, we do now - we've seen the extremes).
I'll post more now when I know when she'll be released and the latest with all that. People have been so helpful. We opened up with our church about what's going on (put her on the prayer chain) and it's amazing how many people struggle with this or have. And how it can make your life hell for a while. Or so it seems at the time. Two weeks ago I felt we were in a dark tunnel that we'd never come out of. Now I feel like there's light somewhere! We have been supported by so many (here on this forum too) and it's been a help.
Keri
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Keri ~
Thanks for the update on your daughter and her situation. I'm so pleased to learn that she's doing better and that you and your husband can see some light at the end of this particular 'tunnel'. I'm a firm believer that 'prayer changes things' so I'm delighted to learn that your church is involved and also that the experience has increased your understanding of depression, which can be insidious.
We all know that the teen years can be an emotional labyrinth for many and I believe that girls have it much harder these days, if it ever really was 'easy' to be a teenager, male or female. I trust that the days ahead will find solace for your daughter's depression and peace and some serenity for you and your husband. Meanwhile, you, your husband and your precious daughter will remain in the prayers of many, including mine.
Jim
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Keri,
I'm glad your daughter is doing better. I think it's a good reminder that just because things might look okay on the outside, there could be a storm brewing inside and we can never really understand what someone is going through. I know that your support, love and understanding willl help Noely get through this. I'm glad you looked to your church for support. People should know that they are not alone in this struggle.
Thanks for keeping us posted. I hope the rest of your family is doing well.
Lori
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Keri ......
So glad Noely is making progress and will soon be out of the hospital. Depression is such a lonely road, not only for the person in it, but the caregivers, as well.
My prayers continue not only for Noely but for you and your whole family ..... it affects all of you in very different ways.
Thank goodness you have a strong support group with your church. I don't know what we would have done without our church friends the past two years.
Clarice
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Keri,
Thanks for the update. Continued prayers for Noely's recovery, slowly but surely. Poor girl, so many stressors today for teen girls especially (just listened to a segment on teen sexting :( ) Very scary world out there. She is no doubt feeling the stress of everything- school, mom, sis, etc. and probably doesn't want to upset everyone. So the outward smiles continue, the inward turmoil continues too.
Hang in there. Hopefully she will learn to open up, relax and just "be" at her home environment.
My 16 year old son comes home and appears rather comatose, but I know he is giving it all in his very large high school. I wish I could be invisible and follow him through a day in the life of a teen at school!
One day at a time :)
Maureen
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Keri,
Just read/saw this post now and I can't believe how eerily similar it is to what is going on in my extended family. My niece (16) seemingly out of the blue started feeling 'down' about life in general. I'm sure it was building, but as her aunt who lives thousands of miles away-we had no idea. As you said, she was happy and cheerful when we saw her. She comes from a great and supportive family. She ended up on some meds, and then shortly after a friend of hers came to my sister in law's house and told her that she hated to "tell" on her friend but that my niece was having suicidal thoughts. She was admitted into a crisis centre and had to stay there for a few weeks. They were adjusting her meds and doing lots of counselling. Apparently, the drugs that you can take for depression can actually CAUSE suicidal thoughts. Crazy, but that's what we're being told. They tried new meds and after a few weeks, sent her on her way. They changed schools and tried to 'start fresh'. They went on a family holiday together (which they say was great) but shortly after they got back she admit that she was still having suicidal thoughts. She ended up in a new facility, and spent 10 days there. She got out about 5 days ago and still isn't allowed to go to school or to be on her own at all. She has a full analysis by a new counsellor later this week.
It's scary and hard to understand. She's a cute girl with a real bubbly personality. She says she just wants to be loved. Lots of her issues stem from guys and wanting them to love her. She also struggles with an eating disorder.
I have no idea how to help my sister in law, and my brother in law is beside himself. They're doing everything they can, and their life is on hold while this is going on-as it's all consuming.
I so feel for you, and I completely understand your journey of learning more about depression, and the roller coaster of emotions that are going on (both with her, and with you).
Sorry you're going through this too. Please know that you are not alone, and certainly if we have any 'break through' moments with my niece, we will share in the hopes that it will help you too.
Huge (hugs).
Adrienne
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Very similar stories - my Noely and your niece, Adrienne. Noely's has never gotten in with the 'wrong crowd', gotten into any trouble, has had a loving and supportive upbringing. There are issues, like Cheri mentioned, with sometimes our special needs older daughter gets a lot of attention, but we've been careful to take Noely on special trips and things like that (thank you, Cheri, for your insight there - we had never considered that before this all started).
The terrible irony of these dang meds causing them to be suicidal at times - that's so true! I don't envy the doctor's work. It takes to long to get the meds into their system to works properly, then to get them out of their system if they don't. I've totally changed how I feel about mental illness - at times I just thought it was all part of high teenage drama. But some of these kids can truly be sick or ill and it's NOT because they've been abused or been through some kind of personal hell that set it all off. I really feel for you niece and her family/parents - I totally understand. You want them to come home but are scared that when they do, in a very low moment, they could try to harm themselves, even though this is not really what they want. It's heartbreaking.
Thank you, everyone, for your continued support. Noely going to be released today and then go daily to the hospital for a day program. She's scared; we're scared (but excited too), but we're glad she's being more open with us and not just saying 'everything is ok' when it isn't. They're still trying to get the meds right, and she's having a lot of anxiety.
So, keep praying! Adrienne - please keep me posted on your niece. Thank you for sharing.
Keri
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Keri ....
My prayers will double up this week ..... that Noely will be able to believe in herself again and have peace and that you can have the strength (both emotional and physical) to support her along this next stage in her recovery.
Clarice
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Keri,
Prayers going your way for peace and healing and hoping the medication issue gets resolved and she feels better. :)
Maureen
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Hey Keri,
Rich and I send our prayers for Noely and your family.
You are such a strong person with a very positive outlook on life, and although your daughter is going through a tough time right now, down deep… I’m sure she has enough of her mom inside to help her get through this.
We will be keeping you in our prayers,
Scarlett
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Keri,
I have raised four sons. I have been told by many people how much easier boys are to raise than girls, I don't know about that. The only thing I know is each child is a cherished gift from God, with distinct personalities. I also know that the kids today have so much more stresses in their lives than we ever had growing up.
I have been following this thread very closely. I know your daughter has a loving mother and father. With the grace of God, the guidance of her Doctors and the love and support of family and friends Noely will get through this.
Take care Keri,
Anne Marie
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Keri,
I've just logged into this thread and my thoughts go to you and your family. I have two daughters, 23 and 26. Both with eating disorders and depression comes with it. I'll share a couple of things so they may help you.
My eldest daughter has anorexia and a zest for exercise. We have hospitalised her into an eating disorder clinic three times now. After the third time, she started cutting herself on the backof the hands. This was an attention gathering exercise. She learned about this from other girls in the clinic. My eldest has always had an attention seeking streak in her and this was a good way of getting that.
My youngest daughter has a different issue although a serious case of Bulimia. She has a self esteem problem. She is not a big girl by any stretch but with eating disorders, they see themselves as something different to what they really are. She fights depression a lot. Going back to my eldest, she has been seeing a shrink for some time who has been experimenting with drugs to curb her mindset. At one point the mix of drugs did cause her to have suicidal tendencies so the drugs were quickly changed. She is slowly on the improve. My younger daughter saw a shrink but stopped coz she couldn't relate to the shrink and has been battling it out without meds.
My eldest is She is 5 foot 6 and weighs 110 pounds. My younger daughter is 5 foot seven and weighs 115 pounds. They both see themselves as FAT.
This has been going on for years and we have learned a hell of a lot and this is why i wanted to share the above with you. What we know is that coming to a diagnosis is very difficult, nearly impossible. We have found that professional medical help only worked when my eldest daughter related to the shrink. previous attempts did nothing. They will switch off unless they can get on with the helper. We continually gave encouragement and supported both kids even though the issues made both my wife and I depressed at times. With my younger daughter it was purely a self esteem issue. She fits into the tiniest dresses but still thinks she's fat. We keep encouraging her and praising her appearance and things have improved a fair bit and she is getting better with her bingeing and purging episodes reducing.
The thing that I have been trying to get my youngest daugyhter to do is go to toastmasters to increase her self esteem but she is reluctant to do sio.
Keri, sorry to provide a long winded scenario of my household but depression is a serious issue and i thought by explaining my situation, that it may shed some light for you going forward. The most important thing is to try and get Noely to see a shrink or psychologist that she can relate to, maybe a younger female. My kids opened up more in that situation. Be careful of the meds they prescribe - do your research on the combinations they give. praise her lots and don't show your concerns openly. Try being positive - very, very difficult. Do silly things inf front of her to get her laughing. Hopefully she will open up and identify the causes for her depression.
Hoping for a positive result
Laz
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Laz ~
Although I certainly don't envy any parent struggling with a teen-aged child going through emotional problems, sometimes manifested in eating disorders, as your daughters have, I have to admire the strength of character driven by love for the child (or children, in your case) that gives parents such as you and your wife, as well as Keri and her husband and the many others parents battling these mental diseases and ensuing problems, often for years, the tenacity and patience to see the child through the situation to a successful end.
Every parent wants the very best for their child . As parents of an 'only' child, Tina and I sure did. Parents will do whatever is necessary to help their child/children achieve the best life possible, both materially and of course, emotionally. Sometimes that is a monumental struggle, sometimes a fairly minor, temporary one and sometimes, no struggle at all. For those that are fighting the good fight to help their troubled child or children, as you, Keri and others are 24/7, my heart and my prayers go out to you and for you. May you all have better days ahead.
Jim
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Hi Kari and Laz
Wow, I haven't checked in with this thread in a while. It breaks my heart and brings back so many memories. I just want to tell you both that things do get better. I have two grown children that have been through so much. I can certainly relate to the anorexia. My daughter suffered, we suffered through that and just want to tell you that with love, support, therapy, it does get better. Although my daughter never was percribed anti depressants she worked through her issues with a counselor and has a wonderful life now. She is an elementary school teacher with 3 beautiful boys and a wonderful husband. I couldn't have wished any better for her.
I just want you to know that it really means alot when you open your hearts and tell others of what you are going through. I had so many people praying for me and my children and it meant so much. Thank you both, God bless you. Know that you are never alone.
You are in my prayers :)
Sue in Michigan
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Thx for the thoughts. i really didn't want my post to appear as opening out, it was designed to give Keri a bit of hope and examples of what we have found through experience. I guess though in hindsight, it did help me when typing away. Might be useful for anyone else to share their experiences like this (hopefully there aren't too many) and from these posts and experiences, maybe some of us can pick one or two things to try.
i firmly believe, much to the disgust of most medicos, that forums like this provide a much better insight to a lot of medical processes and healing guidelines than the medicos provide (apart from their technical skills of course)
My decision to go gammaknife was based on the info provided on this forum. lets hope we can help Keri and Noely with some helpful tips
cheers
Laz
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Just wanted to give this board two thumbs up for being so supportive of ALL the issues that affect the lives of the members! Jill 8)
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Haven't checked in on this in a while (we are having MAJOR issues with our sweet 8 YEAR OLD who has major outbursts & runs from her classroom screaming!!)...Keri, hope everything is going well having Noely at home - you are definitely in my thoughts & prayers!
K ;D
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Keri,
I hope things are working out well with Noely at home now. You must be relieved to be able to see and hold her, but I certainly can imagine it's difficult to wonder what the next moment may bring. Hang in there.
Laz, I certainly appreciate you sharing your story with us too. It's so important for others to know how many people are affected by things like this. You just never know when it could hit close to home and what a relief it must be to know that others have been there and gotten through it. I have successfully gotten 2 of my kids to young adulthood without any major issues, but still have 2 little ones to go. I think it's important to be able to recognize the signs of a potental problem as early as possible, and like you said, you get more useful information from "real" people sometimes.
Prayers all around today!
Lori
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Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and prayers and words of encouragement.
I appreciate those who have shared what they are going through with teens daughters (or daughters) and/or family members and friends. It helps to know when others are going through this too.
Noely is back home and is transitioning back into school. It's kind of challenging for her. Right now our big struggle as parents are the choices, i.e., when to trust (as in leave her alone/give her space) or when to check up on her; when to push / motivate and when to back off and ease up a bit, things like that. She's made progress. I have heard this is a cycle, a thing you deal with for possibly several years. That's ok. We're doing better overall. A few weeks ago it all seemed so dark. It was scary and we were scared for Noely. She's doing better, she wants to get better. She makes some progress but there's bad days too. But that's life too.
I've certainly learned a lot about depression and my thoughts on it. I've had so many people express what they've been through. I think it's a postive thing that mental illness can be talked about more openly and not seem so 'hush hush.'
Thank you again!
Keri
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Keri, I so hope it goes better for her and all of you now. That would be very hard to not know what is the best way to act around her and give her space or if should not. Glad to hear how it's going!
Cheryl R
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Keri ~
Thanks for updating your daughter's struggle with depression and the efforts you and your husband are making to help Noely. I'm so pleased to learn that she is improving and that you, as her parents, are coping with the situation fairly successfully. The fact that you stated she wants to get better is a huge plus. Without that kind of self-motivation, her future might remain cloudy. As it is, things are looking much better for all of you and that is a real spirit-lifter for many of us who care about you, your husband and your daughter. That we can more openly discuss these mental/emotional issues with honesty is certainly a big improvement and probably why there is much more success in treating those with depression these days....especially teens, who always have it tough. I hope and will pray for continued improvement for your daughter and strength as well as patience for you and your husband.
Jim
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Hi Keri .....
So good to that overall Noely is doing better. Being a teen these days is hard enough without the emotional upheavals she is having to endure. Yes, it is hard to know when to push and when to back off, but I know, with God's help, you will be able to sense which is best.
My love, thoughts, and prayers are constantly with you!
Clarice
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Dear Keri et al,
It's taken me awhile to post because your reality struck so close to home. The wonderful folks on this board gave you good advice. In particular, DBSA (Depression and Bipolar Support Association) is an excellent online source. They even have online support groups that meet at certain times.
Odd for me to not respond earlier because depression is the big cause in my life. One aim is to help destignmatize it. The other is to help folks understand it better. Overcoming depression is and will always be the biggest accomplishment of my life. I have researched it (both subjectively and objectively) for many years -- perhaps I can shed some more light. The primary thing is that it is important to catch it early so that it doesn't become ingrained in the brain. That's what you're doing, which makes me happy! When I was a teenager in the '60's, there really wasn't any way to 'catch it early," even though my parents were social workers and about as progressive as possible.
It seems like you, Keri, have come to understand it better. Depression is not necessarily 'sadness'; it's BOREDOM, not being interested in anything, hopelessness, and "busy mind," thoughts of the hopelessness going over and over and over in your mind.
The way I see it, there are three components: chemical, life-experience, and cognitive. The basis of it all is in the chemical -- you have to go through the TORTUOUS process of finding the right meds. I've always resentfully thought that it's the cruelest joke that it takes weeks for the anti-depressive effect of meds to take (or not) effect. (The side effects manifest immediately.) But one must find the right ones. The analogy I give is that, if you lost a leg, you couldn't learn to walk again until you had a prosthesis.
And - a particular bugaboo of mine is this widespread thought that teenagers shouldn't be given anti-depressants --- WRONG. I can't thank you enough for LEARNING ENOUGH to know that your daughter needs the meds. Not only for her current emotional state, but also because of that third aspect - the cognitive. The sooner your daughter's brain quits repeating the depressing stuff to itself, the better. The brain gets into the habit of repeating bad stuff to itself, and this perpetuates depression into a decades-long problem.
So - #1 work at getting the meds right. One note - sometimes the original brand (eg Lexapro) works for a person when the generic brand (eg Celexa) doesn't.
#2 - life experience and counseling. If the meds are helping the brain chemicals, then it's POSSIBLE to deal with the life experiences both in the past and coping in the present. As everyone has said, it must be incredibly difficult to be a teenager these days; it's good to have an adult you trust -- and good I think to have an adult to trust that's not a parent, in ADDITION to wonderful parents - to help you think your actions through.
3 - cognitive therapy. I've not done too much of it (and I should!) but cognitive therapy is different than what I'd call "talk therapy' - #2 above. Cognitive therapy helps you break those brain thought patterns that feed depression. I know that in some cities, some health care providers, there are separate Cognitive Therapy classes/groups. Usually have a short time frame, maybe once a week for 6 weeks, where you learn different techniques for breaking the brain's habits. It gives you tools for life.
So, what are other everyday things to do?
Perhaps your daughter would be open to learning about depression. The more one knows, the more objective one's illness becomes. My favorite book is Shadow Syndromes by John Ratey.
Cultivate hobbies that distract the brain. Like you said, bake those cookies! My lifelong thing is doing picture/logic puzzles. I like both color/art and arithmetic, so it works for me. I do them everyday before going to sleep*. www.conceptispuzzles.com. Obviously, the list of possible detail-oriented hobbies is endless. I like the cookies idea because it includes giving them away, connecting with other people.
*Which reminds me - if she's a "sleeper" (that is, likes to sleep), be grateful. A common symptom of depression is insomnia, that is, the brain going over and over and over the hopelessness. Doesn't do ANY good. I've always been grateful that I'm a "sleeper" - escape whenever possible!!
Obviously, staying involved with people -- getting out there. I'm so glad to hear that she has supportive friends and know that she has an understanding and proactive family.
Just please know that being depressed is hell. What can I say? Everything that everyone said could all be causal components - a special needs sibling, teenage hormones, etc etc. It's a fine line between giving her room and giving her structure. I guess I'd say, try to give her structure that matches her personality, and let her take freedoms that are less harmful vs more harmful. One little secret about cutting - it makes the pain very local, and distracts one from the much larger pain of depression.
Needless to say, you have all my best wishes. If you ever want to talk, here or offline, I'm here.
I do want to add that, although it's sometimes a daily struggle, I HAVE overcome depression. I have a good life, a good relationship, a job I love, good friends.
Love,
Dana