ANA Discussion Forum
General Category => AN Issues => Topic started by: Sam Rush on October 27, 2008, 12:50:14 pm
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I am now almost 4 years post successful trans-lab surgery. My 13 yr old arthritic dog recently started walking funny, falling to her left side and not hearing well. Genius that I am, I assumed it was a foxtail in her ear, and took her to the vet. The vet did a complete evaluation including ear exam and hearing testing, then comes out and tells me " we think it's a rare brain tumor called an acoustic neuroma." After they said that, it seemed obvious to me that's what it could be. They mentioned an MRI to confirm the diagnosis at the vet teaching hospital in Davis, Calif. However, because of her age and her arthritis, I don't want to put her through all that. She doesn't seem to be in pain, and eats OK, so I'll probably just watch her for a while. The whole thing is too wierd to think about. I may take her for the MRI, haven't decided yet. If she was younger, I definately would do the MRI to confirm the diagnosis, then consider radiation. I can't imagine any vet having enough experience in this to do surgery. Any thoughts?? Anyone have a similar experience?? I doubt it.
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Wow Sam! That is pretty freaky!! Who would have thought? If it is a 1 in 100,000 ratio for humans, sonder what it is for dogs?????
K
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Wow...that is weird (and interesting). I guess animals can get it, too!
Since it's not just a people thing, it makes me think that AN is a product of our environment....something in our air? water? We'll probably never know.
Fun Fact: Nearly 50 percent of people that die of natural causes have an acoustic neuroma in some form or stage. (a neuro-surgeon told me this)
Thanks,
Verl
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What should I do, if anything??
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Sam,
That is weird. I'm not sure what I'd do in that case - it's so hard when man's best friend gets to that point in life. I guess I'd do whatever made her the most comfortable so she can enjoy her golden years. I can certainly understand not wanting to put her through anything traumatic. It's a tough situation to be in. but I know you'll be able to decide what's best for her.
And another fun "fact" - I think we've all been told that AN's are a 1 - 100,000 occurence, but one of the doctors that works with my surgeon said he has read that's it's more like 1 - 50,000. Don't know if it's a fact or not, but I thought it was interesting.
Sam, give your doggie a nice scritch behind the ear from me.
Lori
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Hi Sam,
Sorry to hear about your dog's problems. It's amazing that a Vet would suggest AN for a diagnosis. How many Vets's would be aware of AN? It may be worth asking the Vet if a short course of steriod treatment would help the dog's symptoms.
Regards,
Rob
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Head Case
I can give the dog steroids, are you assuming cerebral edema?? Might be worth while to try.
Thanks Sam
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Dr. Sam -
this certainly is a strange coincidence; I mean, what are the odds :o
I'm with Lori on this one. If it were me, I'd do what I could for the dog to make sure she's comfortable and I'd avoid doing anything that would be too traumatic for her.
What that might be though, I'm not sure ???
Did your vet say what your dog's treatment options are, if an MRI did show an AN? Perhaps as Rob said the vet could give her a course of steroids. IMO it's worth asking the vet his opinion.
Jan
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Sam:
O.K. This is really weird. A canine AN patient. Well, your dog is the human equivalent of 90 years old. What would you tell a patient with a parent that age who was diagnosed with an acoustic neuroma? I can only speculate but "keep him comfortable and as pain-free as possible" might be your response. Surgery would probably be off the table as an option at that age. The steroids may be some help but in this case, 'you're the doctor' - literally - and because the dog is your pet, you get to decide for him. I'm confident you'll do what's best for the dog.
Jim
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Wow Sam, that is weird. And we can't tie it to a cell phone!
I guess I would do what a human would do; get a second opinion and do what you can to make the dog comfy and happy. Do they even do AN surgeries on animals?
I'm so sorry that your pet has received this diagnosis but hopefully it's as slow growing in animals as humans.
Marci
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Sam,
I'm actually quite impressed that a vet would come up with an AN diagnosis as a possibility. My people doctor couldn't even come up with an accurate diagnosis.
As for your doggy...that's a tough one. I'd keep her comfortable and give yourself time to decide if anything more needs to be done towards a diagnosis. I'd treat what symptoms I could (steroids sound reasonable) to keep her functional with her other ailments.
I had a dog who was 13, had been fairly healthy except for a bad back and was the joy of my life. My child had just been diagnosed with a rare seizure disorder. My dog walked out of the kitchen one day, fell over and had a seizure right there in front of my eyes. I could't really believe what I had just seen. I kept questioning what to do and if I could have been mistaken about what I just witnessed. I had that "too weird to accept" feeling, and seizures in dogs are not that uncommon. It was just the timing.
You will figure out what needs to be done for your doggy. Give yourself some time.
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First, some fun answers:
Invite your dog to join the forum. We would welcome her. :)
Call Dr. Brackmann. At this point in his career, he might welcome one more challenge, and if not, he might get a smile out of it. He is the only one I would trust to do AN surgery on a dog.
Start a rumor that ANs are contagious and can be transmitted by pets. :o
Ok, more seriously.
I wonder if steroids would help, or just bring on some unpleasant side effects. The symptoms don't necessarily indicate a large tumor threatening the brainstem; it could be a small one, causing some mischief in the balance and hearing nerves. Watch and Wait is probably the best treatment choice, with some mild medication if there is evidence of pain or discomfort.
It is destiny, Sam. A man and his dog are the best of friends, and share everything, including their ailments. Scratch her ear. :)
Steve
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Acoustic Neuromas in canines DO exist.
Here is some medical (ok veterinary ::) ) material to ponder
http://books.google.com/books?id=8fXzJrDfFgUC&pg=PA1295&lpg=PA1295&dq=acoustic+neuroma+in+canines&source=web&ots=oRQzBAge9L&sig=3Yq5YqOgI2LJpAoYl-6KN6Jb-UI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result
“IF" it were true that both the human and the canine had AN tumors- it would make me question,
“Is there an environmental link… or just bizarre chance and probability?�
Unless you have a look inside the dog’s brain– you will never know.
DHM
P.S. I know Dr. Brackmann will be amused by this one… be sure to share. If there is an environmental link it could help in his research to find "the cause"... Premonition ...I feel a dog survey coming on... 8) ;)
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Sam.
I can't even imagine what the odds are of this happening -- they must be astronomical to say the least. :o I'm not sure what I'd do, but if you think the steroids might help, its worth a try.
Wendy
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Funny you should mention odds. As you know, I'm not too far into the oh my goodness what do I have stage. Well, we have had my dog at the vet many times now for, you ready for this? Head tilting to one side (no infection), unbalanced, difficulty standing straight, head wobbling back and forth. They x-rayed the legs. Hmmm... now I'm thinking it's the brain. She's only 8ish, but walks like she's 15.
Ernie
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My 13 yr old dog was diagnosed with a liver tumor. We tried meds but it was obvious we were just putting off the inevitable...so on June 28 we put her down...It is so hard as they become part of our family. As previous stated, make her comfy and you will know when the time comes...huggsss to you and pooch
JO
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Well, I must comment also. This is past weird and into bizarre. For an AN patient to have a dog with acoustic neuroma is ... well I can't even find the words to express it! But maybe you should buy a lottery ticket. Odds seem to be doing tricks in your life at the moment and maybe something good will come of it. Remember me if you win, however! Monetarily, that is.. ;)
As for your poor pup, I hope something can be done to ease the symptoms.
But, when you think about it, all animals have nerves and they have ears and they have schwann cells and they get tumors, so they probably have the same gene that goes awry, just like we do. But, it's not something I ever thought about before this. Almost a Ripley's Believe It Or Not! kind of thing.
You might even write a letter to the ANA newsletter telling them about your poor dog. I'm sure they would publish this!
Sue in Vancouver, USA
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This is quite a story! I have to admit that when I first read this I thought that maybe your vet knew about your acoustic neuroma and was just displaying a rather odd sense of humor when diagnosing your dog -- obviously that's not the case. You can tell your vet that he has certainly impressed a lot of people with his knowledge! As all pet owners know, our pets depend on us to do the right thing by them, and I'm sure you will know, and do, what's best for your dog in this situation.
My now 11-year-old Cavalier K.C. Spaniel experienced early onset deafness about five or six years ago. I was really upset and asked my vet if there was anything we could do, since I figured that Bailey was going to be pretty traumatized by his deafness, even though he already knew hand signals from obedience and agility training. He told me of some studies at one of the vet schools in the country (can't recall which one he mentioned) -- dog hearing aids were being developed, but they were pretty expensive and since most dogs don't like having things stuck in their ears they would often work the aids out of their ears and eat them. This didn't sound too promising! My vet went on to assure me that since dogs pretty much "live in the moment" Bailey was much less distressed by his deafness than we were, and would simply hone his other senses to compensate. And indeed he has. And I still talk to him as though he can understand every word I say. I have to say that I've viewed him as something of a role model as I live with my SSD.
I hope things will go well with your dog and that your vet will be able to prescribe something that will help with the symptoms and make her feel a lot better.
Catherine (JerseyGirl2)
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Wow, Sam, I think I am a day late and a dollar short on this one! I was totally amazed, but when you think about it, why not in a dog? I had a Pug that did that and the vet said she had hip problems and sent us to a specialist who did an MRI (very expensive) and said the dog's hips were fine. He said he thought she had an inner ear infection. He put her on a course of antibiotics and she was fine for a while and then started all over again. After spending several hundred dollars on vets we decided to make her as comfortable as possible and she lived four years beyond the first symptoms. She passed away in my lap, with what I will always think of as her final smile to me.
I would try the steriods and see how she does on them and go from their, but i would also consult with Dr Brackman.
I'll keep her in my prayers as well as you and your family. Our dogs are the best part of who we are.
Brenda
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Sam,
That is a strage coincidence. What a connection the two of you must have! Give you dog hugs, and you will know what is right for your family, your circumstances and your dog. At 13, it seems like the rate of growth might be slower than her natural life span. Good luck,
Laura