ANA Discussion Forum
AN Community => AN Community => Topic started by: ppearl214 on January 24, 2008, 10:50:06 am
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Hmmmmmmmmmm... should I or shouldn't I post this? Could REALLY stir up heated discussions....... ok, will pull out my whip to keep everyone on track if this gets out of line.......
*ahem*
Saw this on cnn.com........ found it interesting and thought I'd post it here (gawd help me!).
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/01/23/ep.obnoxious/index.html
So, at what point are we obnoxious in dealing with our dr's? At what point should we just simply "ask" or "demand" certain things from our physicians... especially in the case of our AN treatments ('member folks, let's try to keep this regarding AN's as this is an AN website)?
Know that I'm going to watch this thread carefully for any discussions that get outta line.....
Have fun all!
Phyl
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hmm.............. gonna think this one over really hard before I make up my response. Going to visit my doctor in about 10 minutes. Will give me something to think about when I do!
~Karen
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I think the article was pretty right on. There will always be doctors which have personality conflicts also with certain patients and also those drs who think they are god. The nicer one is to your dr than the dr is going to be nicer back to you in most cases. One does have to be your own advocate though and keep pushing if treatment is not helping as many well know here.
I am a hospital nurse and have more problem with obnoxious relatives of pts than the pts themselves! I am lucky to work where most of the drs are very good and receptive to what the nurses suggest a pt needs.
Cheryl R
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Its true.. the internet is a wonderful place to research stuff, years ago we only had a library... (and I never went to one unless I had too )
but...
you have to put your own common sense in with it .. * the internet is men's room wall * don't believe it just because you saw it on a web page... I can find a all sorts of hate , aliens on earth , to the world is really flat web pages.. find multiple sources.. and take into account the source... is it cnn or Fred's blog? ... just this morning I found a blog about a the worlds biggest AN at 7cm .. now that's a biggie.. but we all know that's not the worlds biggest....
so do the research .. engage your doctor with questions... but also remember, your doctor went to years of med school and experience...not just a couple hours on WebMD ... but if you don't like the answers to your questions... that's ok... get a second opinion... there is no reason for you or the doctor to be argumentive or obnoxious
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YO Phyl - great article - thanks for posting. Hope y'all keeping warm up there.
We had an interesting encounter with our neurologist of four years. He actually apologized to us for the way we got the "run-a-round" over a two-day period with his office. We thought we were turning into "obnoxious" patients and he said "no way" - you know how I like my practice to run and this particular incident should never have happened!!
Sheryl "wait and watch" snowbird.
Larry "CK done 10/1/07" snowbird.
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*sits back with martini and popcorn....*
Like Karen, I gotta think about this one... too many personal issues that I have run into and have to give this one thought......
Phyl
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Well Phyl - where angels fear to tread ? or similar ?
I had a chat with a senoir nurse on very similar lines to the cnn Doc
She really was quite forthright about "own" research (very much against)
When I pointed out that had I followed her the "Doc knows best" advice
I would now be blind, paralysed and/or dead - and in any order
...the colour drained from here face and....she said...
"well you probably did the right thing"
- the subject didnt come again.......
(of course 99 out of 100 times patients can panic themselves
into a false danger situation, and are then hard to handled
because their view wont change - but once in a while
.............the patient is right ?)
Best Regards
Tony
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Well, as a nurse, I've certainly dealt with my share of obnoxious patients!
I think you have to walk the line between insisting on quality medical care and being respectful of the medical professionals who are trying to help you. Doctors are not perfect (nurses are, of course ;)), so you have to make sure to look out for your own best interest while realizing that if you knew everything - you wouldn't be there for his/her advice in the first place.
I've had people tell me they needed medication or some treatment because they read somewhere that they have "x" illness, without even giving themselves the benefit of having an exam or speaking with the doctor about it. Then they get mad when you won't just have to doctor write a referral or a prescription for them without the doctor ever seeing them. I've never had a problem with patients being informed and bringing things to my attention, because i certainly don't know every illness or condition that exists, but when they come in armed with binders full of paperwork and tell you they have the Ebola virus and insist on whatever drug the news reporter said they should be on, that's when it get's a little obnoxious.
The "Doc knows best" thing definitely has some flaws, but I think any reasonable doctor would not mind being questioned in a polite way. If he/she does get defensive or rude about answering your questions, then maybe it's time to find a new doctor. If I hadn't questioned my Mom's doctor a few years ago, she would have wound up having a bone marrow transplant when the only thing that was causing her problems was a simple medication she was on. I suggested we try changing that before we dive into her bone marrow and - viola - it worked.
There were some good points in the article. Common courtesy and the Golden Rule work well too.
Popcorn, please?
Lori
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I have had the experience of good communication with our families providers about 98% of the time. Most Drs encourage this type of dialogue in their offices. It is helpful to us as patients and to them for future patients. They are usually very thankful to have the latest research that they may not be aware of. This being said there are some Drs that do not welcome any questions and still have the attitude of Drs know best and this is not the best fit for patients like us that are active and informed about our care. I also believe that communication is an art that is learned over time and experience and not all patients and Drs are at the level that I have found on this forum. Practice practice practice and sometimes critical self reflection can help you to communicate better the next time. I know that I learn lessons that help the most through errors I have made along the way. I have also had the pleasure of being on both side as Lori has also.
Phyl thank you for posting this it has reminded me to keep working on my communication skills and these skills are needed in all areas of my life. You amaze me more every time you post! We are very lucky to have you with us. You think of things that need to be addressed and thought about that I would have never thought of. Have a great weekend to all of you! ;D 16
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I thought the article was very good and had many good points. I should take the advice about the index cards. I need to write things down and have them organized like that so that I can make the most efficient use of my 15 minutes with my doctor. Hopefully I will remember to do that! :)
This kind of reminds me about Elaine on "Seinfeld" when she got on her doctors chart as uncooperative or something like that. Anyone remember that?
Sue in Vancouver
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I don't remember that exact episode, but that totally sounds like Elaine -- she was always getting in trouble for having a bad attitude over things! I love that show! My SIL has gotten to know her as her (Elaine's) son was in my BIL's class at school and he coached his paddling team. She said that she is very nice and she, along, with other parents were VERY good to them (w/ nice hotel rooms, etc)!!!!
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My wife and I have always had good relationships with our doctors. She is a very pleasant, demure and intelligent woman who usually asks lots of questions (she's undergone multiple surgeries) but does so politely and with deference to the doctor's position. If she disagrees, she doesn't make it an 'issue' but simply says she'll have to consider his recommendation for surgery, therapy, medication, whatever. She won't tolerate any doctor that is dismissive of her complaints or symptoms, wastes her time by running way late on a consistent basis or acts in a disrespectful manner. She has 'fired' one or two such doctors by simply not going back and, in only one case, asking that her records be transferred. No one asked her why, which was telling.
I rarely saw a doctor as I've been blessed with good health most of my life, but I did see our affable PCP every two years or so. He usually told me that he wished all of his patients my age were in as good condition as I am. I liked this doctor! When my AN symptoms manifested themselves (early 2006), I saw my PCP and he ordered an MRI. He called me at my home at 7 PM to give me the bad news that the MRI showed a large AN. After a false start, I was referred to the neurosurgeon who ultimately performed my surgery; Dr. Issac Goodrich. My wife accompanied me to the consultation and we both had questions, which the surgeon patiently answered over a 30 minute period without ever looking at his watch or taking a phone call. He kept using the phrase 'if you decide to hire me' and that impressed us, as he came highly recommended, taught at Yale Medical School and had 30 years of experience. We hired him. He did a remarkable job and worked closely with a radiation oncolgist to 'map' my subsequent FSR treatments. The radiation oncologist was also great. Very friendly and open to discussion, if we wanted to. Overall, a very gratifying experience.
The constant seems to be maintaining an environment of mutual respect between doctor and patient. My wife and I educate ourselves regarding whatever medical issue she or myself (mostly her) may be dealing with but we don't presume to know more that a highly trained specialist. We are not intimidated by any doctor and refuse to be patronized or treated with disrespect. We usually aren't. If we are, we walk, without a lot of drama. Fortunately, that has hardly ever been necessary. I trust this will continue to be the case in the future.
Jim
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Jim, I like the idea of "hiring" the doctor. Now too bad we can't decide what we want to pay them!! :D
Lori
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Jim, I like the idea of "hiring" the doctor. Now too bad we can't decide what we want to pay them!! :D
Lori
Actually, we did ask him about the cost of the surgery. Dr.Goodrich replied that he accepts whatever the insurance pays (I had Blue Cross) and not to spend a moment worrying about money but to "just concentrate on getting well". I followed his advice. The insurance company paid him and his surgical assistant (an M.D.) a total of $28,000. We never received a bill from his office for anything else. Oh, I have to pay the doctor (and the MRI facility) my co-pay but his co-pay is only around $9.00 per semi-annual visit. Hardly a burden.
Jim
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It's always nice to find a doctor who became a doctor for the right reasons. I'm fortunate to finally have a few of those too - otherwise I would have had to put a donation jar with my picture on it at the local convenience store and hope for some spare change!
Lori