ANA Discussion Forum
Archive => Archives => Topic started by: Gennysmom on September 28, 2006, 12:26:06 pm
-
OK, here's a question....in the 4 weeks I've been back to work I've noticed something...my boss will give me instructions or explain a concept, and I'm not intuitively getting it as well as I used to....I seem to make things more complicated than they need be, and it seems that I'm looking at things more literally than I used to...clouding the intuitiveness that I usually have. Anyone else notice this? I'm feeling like I'm needing to relearn how to do this, and I'm doing a lot of repeating what people say back to them to make sure I'm understanding correctly. It's getting kind of frustrating.
-
yep ... its like I lost 10 iq points or something ! .. I'm not as sharp as I used to be ... >:( >:( >:(
-
Check out this paper By Kenneth Erickson on Cognitive Aspects of Vestibular Disorders:
http://www.backgroundfacts.com/menieres/COGDIS.htm
It is a long read especially if you have a vestibular disorder!!! I highlighted some of it and had Dr Love read it so he understood what I was going through.
This is why, when I'm driving around doing errands, I have a list of my stops, in order, in my car beside me in big letters. I can't concentrate on driving and also remember where I'm supposed to go and end up driving around in circles and back-tracking.
Capt Deb 8)
-
Joe...it's weird, I'm not feeling like I've lost IQ points, it's just that I solve problems/puzzles differently than I did before. Example...I work with 3 others that basically do the same job as I do, and we share the workload...we were working on redistributing how we do things, and they set out a weekly schedule that for some reason I jumped to the extra conclusion that it would rotate EVERY week and be different....when in reality it's the set every week schedule. It didn't say specifically that either way was right when it came out, but when I found out the correct way to do the schedule I knew that intuitively reading between the lines pre-surgery I would have just known what the right thing was, but now I end up somewhere else with it. This has now happened 8-10 times.
-
Re: the above paper--download it and print it out--it's 18 pages and easier to comprehend in small chucks.
Capt Deb 8)
-
I don't know how anybody cannot go through what surgical patients go through and not come out of it with some residual "fog"! My goodness, you have just had REALLY major surgery, and some heavy duty meds. It's a wonder you even remember your own name!! And the more you think about what isn't working quite right adds more stress, which makes things not work quite right and there you go...around in circles. And I imagine some are more sensitive to this than others. Maybe you can keep track of the instances and ask your doctor about it. IMO, I would think this would clear up in time.
Sue in Vancouver
-
I find that at times I had to work much harder at a given task, that pre-AN would have come so easily. My problem solving ability has been somehow re-routed and I find that I tend to complicate things that should otherwise be a simple thought process. I do have to ask others to repeat instructions and sometimes find that I need it written down in order to dissect it and totally understand it. I know that my frustration does exacerbate the problem. When I get flustered, my thinking becomes clouded and the task takes longer.ÂÂ
I know it's frustrating, but remember, your brain is working overtime in the healing process. What I have learned during my AN journey is that I can do everything I used to Pre-AN, but the application process is sometimes different. I always get to the finish line, but sometimes I take a different route.
Hang in there and sending big hugs,
Cheryl
-
Deb...thanks...I had read that pre-surgery and forgot about it...it's a great document. I can really relate to the driving scenario, and the ah-ha scenario, like what Cheryl describes (Cheryl, you hit the nail on the head with that). I re-read it on the way home in the train...luckily, I don't have the issue where I have to do stuff like that in small chunks...just complex instructions and math. So I guess where my curiosity lies now is that does this issue of surgery change like the facial stuff is, or am I dealing with something permanent, since the nerve was severed, that I either deal with or try to retrain myself? I'm guessing the latter....I do have a Dr. appointment tomorrow that I may bring that paper up to for discussion. I'm frustrated in that I know there's a change, but it's not a stressful frustration...in some aspects I find this all fascinating from an educational standpoint and I may ask questions not from worry, but from curiosity.
-
Yes, I am getting a funny idea that I just want to say "I don't know what you want me to say". ..some strange confusion in problem solving. I have always been very mechanical. Since surgery I don't solve mechanical inventive problems as quickly. Sometimes I just give up and become weary of "thinking about it". I feel as if I am missing a few pieces of a puzzle and I just don't want to look around for them.
I guess I'll just settle for a sense of humor.
-
After 2 weeks in ICU, 4 weeks in a rehab facility, and 5 months of outpatient rehab, on the last day my speech therapist gave me some proverbs to explain and an alarm went off and i was sent to many hours of cognitive testing. Apparently I was too literal. For example "a watched pot never boils" or "a rolling stone gathers no moss" Well after all my cognitive therapy i am still literal but i think it is because of my science background. They suggested getting proverbs and practice thinking. They are probably on the web. patti
-
Thanks so much for posting that paper, Capt. Deb. It's very helpful.
-
For me, It's the constant questioning myself. I just don't feel the confidence in my ability anymore. I agree with joe that it feels like theres been a reduction in the IQ, but I know that really isn't it. The inability to focus and concentrate as well, or get the thought completed enough before it comes out of my mouth. I'm always questoning, did I say that right, or do that right? It's like everything is so jumbled in my head I'm not sure if I put it in proper order before I say or do something. Usually, I have, but always questioning if I did. Does this make any sense to anyone?
Patti UT
-
Patti UT - It makes perfect sense to me, your description fits me exactly.
hugs,
Cheryl
-
I've actually gotten in fights with my wife over simple stuff :( , because I am having trouble explaining something correctly ... Patti , I can relate! Its not a matter of who's right and who's wrong ... she just does not understand what I'm trying to say .. and we both get mad... >:(
-
I notice that when I'm working on a painting, and I work from digital images that I took while I was still able to "get out" that when I come to a place that needs to be "edited", I really have a hard time with that place. Like a photo with a place that has too much reflected light on it and in the photo it reads as a white spot and should be a rock or a tree trunk. I want to paint the white spot even though it makes the painting look bad. I used to paint a little more impressionistically and now I've moved into a more detailed realistic style--an almost photo realism. Consequently I'm spending about 4x longer on each painting than I used to.
It's like I can't "make stuff up" or leave out any detail. Or I can but it's more of an effort. Dr. Love is a big help with this and sometimes suggests that I leave stuff out of the painting that is in the photo.
I had a left side AN--wonder if that's make any impact with all this left-brain/right-brain stuff or is it the vestibular disoder?
Capt Deb 8)
-
Patti yootee that's it, that's one of the issues. It's hard, that's why I started this thread, I know it's a cognitive issue, but it seems so complicated that I was wanting to poll others reality of it. I've always been a science minded intellectual, who was tested as having my intuitiveness being one of my strong points....in a test where you separated groups into realist, emotional, or intuitive...it's the group where you may not have data to support the conclusion, and you're not reacting emotionally to the conclusion....you got to the conclusion because your gut told you so and you don't know why, and 99.9% of the time it's the correct answer. So now, I don't know if it's 99.9% anymore, and what that does is twists your reality when you're such a cognitive person. Plus the thing about the multi-tasking driving having to watch pedestrians, bicycles, motorcycles, cars, etc. moving in all directions....that's so dead on for me...if all moving things aren't going in the same direction in a logical pattern, my brain shuts down and doesn't deal with any of it and I start to lose my balance.
Deb, that's interesting, I haven't had to deal with that....I've never been good at impressionism, always photo realism, which is why I don't paint much anymore....I layer over and over and over, and have to be careful I don't overwork things....which is why I like chalk pastels, layering actually enhances coloring and texturing. It's also why I don't do landscapes, I look at it and want to do every blade of grass and it seems too overwhelming.
I'm right AN and right is my dominant side. It's an interesting question.
-
Has anyone brought up this subject with their doctors? I have and get the same response of " I don't believe there is any correlation". For me, these issues have been the hardest to deal with the past 8 years. Kathleen, I have the same problem with driving, I am fine when everything is headed in the same direction. Intersection are tough, as well as freeways. Pre-AN, I would be able to take in the scenery around me while driving, but I can't do that anymore.
I hope the AN symposium includes the topic of cognitive disorders. Despite what my doctors believe, I know there IS a correlation.
cheryl
-
I'm really glad this topic has come up.
Driving: i find that the super 10-12 lane highways or more are too much especially with major arterial intersections with other hwys. There is too much movement going in too mnay directions what with all the curves and swoops. Brain overload.
Intuitive thinking: I used to be very intuitive and often could grasp the big picture almost immediately. Now i find myself stalled on details often.
IQ changes: I was aware of my IQ pre An and treatment as it was done a number of times at various times in life. I had felt that it had changed a lot so i took it after An treatment. It confiremd what I expected. Although the total IQ points remained almost the same, there was a change in strengths. I used to be very high on the verbal metaphorical language scores. They dropped. ( not surprising for me lol). What did surprise me were the scores in math, spatial problems etc. They were higher. Many of those problems required linear thinking, logical step by step thinking.
I miss the "seeing the big picture" as it affects my writing of fiction (hard to see the whole novel in my head, i get bogged down with details) and it has changed the way i paint also.....like DEb i simply don't "see" things the way i used to.
My An is left sided, I am right handed, and did test equally in left brain right brain thinking about 15 years ago. I expect if i was retested on that there would be a change.
Perhaps one day studies will show why this happens to brain tumour folk.
Oh, i had fsr not surgery by the way.
Windsong
-
I have a Dr.'s appointment today...lets see what mine has to say.
I wonder if this is something that we could bring up to be done at the Symposium....Cognitive tests and pre and post surgery effects. Not that it really changes anything, but I find it interesting at least to get validation.
-
Thanks for that article, Cap't Deb. Hey, the guy was in Portland, Oregon. Anyway, my question. Do all AN patients have vestibular problems? I don't have balance problems as some of you have had. I do remember having some dizzyness in years past. I remember laying in bed and I felt like I was spinning (and no alcohol was involved, thank you!) I've had that a couple of times in the last 15 years or so. It didn't last very long. Nothing I got concerned about or went to the doctor for. But I do remember I had those short episodes. Now I think maybe it had something to do with growing an AN in my head! Then, maybe it was an unrelated event. In any case...I can relate to a little bit of what that article said, but not all of it.
But what I came away with, after reading this thread, is that you guys are a bunch of talented people. You folks could have your own gallery. Your own little Artist Colony. I am very impressed.
Sue in Vancouver
-
Oh so true!!
>>I have the same problem with driving, I am fine when everything is headed in the same direction. Intersection are tough, as well
>>as freeways. Pre-AN, I would be able to take in the scenery around me while driving, but I can't do that anymore.
I drive a gazillion miles every year..it was hard as first, I would look at street signs or scenery and the car would wander! its like my "hands" forgot how to drive! , you turn your head and the hands go with them .. Pre-surgery , they could manage the road by themselves....
I have a theory .. because of the balance nerve lost, I've lost where in "space" my hands are in relation to my head, or at least now its difference than it used to be .. so in another 20 years of driving, my hands and head will re-learn on to drive on their own . but for now, I can't look at signs , other cars, or scenery .. I just pay attention to my driving and I'm fine .. I just got back from Italy , and drove about 700 km .. (and at high speeds!) ... and did ok .. just missed allot of scenery I had to force myself NOT to look at and to keep my eyes on the road...
-
I've actually gotten in fights with my wife over simple stuff :( , because I am having trouble explaining something correctly ... Patti , I can relate! Its not a matter of who's right and who's wrong ... she just does not understand what I'm trying to say .. and we both get mad... >:(
WOOOOOOO now Joe, this opens up a whole new can of worms. Now I'm gonna spill the guts here a bit, cuz this one has become a hugh problem for me. lately, I can't even try and have a discussion with my hubby because of exactaly what you just said. He feels like I am not, as he put it the other day, "following a simple line of logic" and I am listening to him and feeling like he is making no sense, so I kinda of cut him off and try to get to the point of the discussion and skip the "line of logic" because it doesn't seem necessarry and it just joggles in my mind. Kind of weird for a woman to want to get right to the point, I know. And I know he is thinking I am not making any sense. I have almost not wanted to share the web sites with him that explain the cognitive issues, because now he actually has something to fire back at me, "well you just don't remember things" It really gripes me because more times then not, I am sure I know what I heard, but then I start to question myself.
The hardest part for me is I feel he is down talking to me and treating me like he thinks less of my intellegence now, and of course I get hurt and angry. I never dreamed that my AN surgery would effect my marriage, but it seems to be doing just that in a way.
Patti UT
-
Patti, I don't know the kind of guy your husband is, but I'd at least take Deb's advice and print out the paper and have him read it.
OK, so I asked my doc today and his answer was two-fold...one, he wants to go talk to the neurosurgeon, but two, he thinks that the length of time on anesthesia and the lung machine could be the culprit as well. He said that he's seen similar issues on long timed surgical patients that were not AN patients. He's not ruling the AN as the cause out, but he wanted to question the neurosurgeon and get his opinion. He also opined that more than likely, it will never return to what it was pre-surgery, but it will get better, and that he wants to continue to check in with me on the progress with this aspect. Seemed very interested. At least I didn't get the brush off.
-
Patti-yootee
Definitely print out the cognitive disorders paper--I've had the same problems in my marriage--not so much anymore as Dr Love has adjusted to the "new me" pretty well, particularly after reading parts of this paper, especially the parts about difficulties following a conversation. He used to get upset with me for interrupting him all the time. I've learned to try to be quiet and pay closer attention and really try to follow the conversation a little better. He's learned to be a little more patient. It's not all me or all him. We try to meet in the middle and get through this together.
In a way, this cognitive problem has actually made me a better painter. Maybe not better, just different. My work sure is selling better than it used to. Since it takes me so much longer to finish a piece, I just charge more!
Capt Deb
-
Kathleen,
This was a REALLY good topic. I finally read more of the paper, thanks Capn! and discovered a lot of my problems in it. I just thought it was the dizziness, but I am more dyslexic now, have problems following a long sequence of instructions/thoughts--the driving thing is not a problem for me--probably the MdDS issue--numbers I go round and round. I saved the paper so I can show it to my family.
Nan