ANA Discussion Forum
General Category => Inquiries => Topic started by: dieselducy on September 05, 2006, 05:18:53 pm
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http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/tooloud.htm
it says that loud noise can cause ANs!! :o I have listened to a Walkman at full blast since I was 13 and I am 29 now!!! i still LOVE my music loud!!! please let me know how valad this is!!
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dieselducy:
I have heard this before but never gave it much thought. If I got it from loud noise it was from airplanes. I grew up very close to Mpls. St. Paul Int'l Airport. They flew so low over our house and were so loud you could not hear the person talking next to you when they were overhead. There was a airplane overhead every two min. durring the day.
If loud noise, music is the cause of AN's shouldn't they be more common than they are?
Kathy
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i'd think so.. HOW can a noise cause a growth?? ::) anyway, it'd be nice to know. . I think the study was done in ohio..
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dieselducy,
There have been many studies atempting to find environmental "causes" for An tumors. Including things like cell phone use, etc. I found one that had one of it's best statistical matches to be having children around- which I thought was pretty funny. You'll find several stories out there about causes for AN, but they seem to be serendipty.
The only "cause" that I've seen mentiuoned in medical literature was related to a gene on the 22nd chromosome, some tumor suppressor gene.
So, it's probably not loud music. Although that obviously can harm hearing.
Regards,
Rob
PS: My first concert was Hendrix- naw it couldn't have been that.
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it seems like "living" is hazardous to your health ;D
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I recall seeing something about loud music having something to do with the growth rate of an AN, but not causing it. I went to a ton of concerts in my youth, and always found myself at the front barracade with one of the Marshall stacks screaming into my right ear...my AN ear. The doctor said that my AN was large for my age, and since I don't have any of the other "so-called" risk factors to blame, I'm going with that one...noise stress on my acoustic/balance nerve that may have sped up the growth process of something already there.
Rob...mine was Judas Priest...a couple years too shy of Hendrix time...which is too bad since I live near his home town!
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I have managed a record (CD, now) store for 20 years, so I have been exposed to loud music daily. I have been to many, many concerts*. I also lived less than half a mile from an airport for 12 twelve years. So although a link to AN makes sense to me, but I'm still not convinced it is the cause.
*My first concert was Alice Cooper in 1977. ;)
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I had GK last December and was told the cause "is unknown" - big help. Never hear the loud noise theory but I always thought mine was caused by being strapped into the passenger seat going down the freeway at 80 mph while my husband complained complained complained about the kids - so I went deaf in my left ear!
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I attended a seminar at Mass Eye and Ear today on "Hearing loss/balance, Tinnitus/BAHA-Cochlear implants" and this was certainly discussed. In agreement with others, MEEI noted that their is no direct scientific correlation of loud noises causes AN's. They did note about being able to preserve current/usuable hearing in today's environments of loud noises but no proof in they actually cause the growth of AN's. Someone in the audience also noted about mobile/cellphones and 2 of the dr's there shared that although that was brought up a few years back, there is been no shown just cause that the waves emitted by mobile phones (or their antennae) cause AN's or hearing loss. Just FYI what MEEI shared.
Phyl
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I'm no physician or scientist but I do know that Acoustic Neuromas were noted - and operated on - over 100 years ago (the patients usually died as a result of then-primitive surgical techniques). As that was long before jet airliners, cell phones or rock bands and amps I have to seriously doubt the 'loud noise causes AN's' theory. Not that there weren't plenty of loud noises in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially if you worked in a factory, but I still don't see any logic in a tumor growing just from sheer noise, which vibrates the eardrum and excites the inner ear's nerve cells but hardly seems likely to instigate a tumorous growth on the eighth (cochlear) nerve. That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm more inclined to believe that genes are a factor, not sound. However, I'm just a layman and could very well be wrong. In any case, until AN's become more common and get a celebrity spokesman (usually a former patient) to push for more research money, we may never find out.
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I don't and never really did listen to alot of loud music. This study reminds me of the cell phone study. I don't use a cell phone very much now or even prior to my surgery. I basically have come to the conclusion that I had a cell that went wild in my head and as a result if it my tumor came about.
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Group,
I heard something very scary today on the news. They said there has been a 25% increase in brain tumors over the past 15 years. They did not say what kind of brain tumors. Anybody hear this?
Of course there were AN's a hundred years ago. Even my neurosurgeon said she she thinks there has been an increase in AN's in recent years. There has been an increase in cancer why not brain tumors? Cancer has always been around too.
Sandy
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My doctor told me in the last couple of years he's gone from doing 1-2 surgeries a month, to 1-2 a week. Didn't pontificate as to why he thinks the rate is increasing. So??????????
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Group,
Of course there were AN's a hundred years ago. Even my neurosurgeon said she she thinks there has been an increase in AN's in recent years. There has been an increase in cancer why not brain tumors? Cancer has always been around too.
Sandy
The point is that if Acoustic Neuromas (as well as cancer) have been around for well over 100 years, that fact makes the theories about cell phones and so on being the alleged cause, invalid. I am not a physician or scientist but I still think it's genetic, not environmental. Same with cancer: genetic.
With MRI scanners being used extensively and a better awareness (by both physicians and patients) of Acoustic Neuromas, I'm not surprised that they are being found and removed at a higher rate than before. This is a good thing.
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Group,
I heard something very scary today on the news. They said there has been a 25% increase in brain tumors over the past 15 years. They did not say what kind of brain tumors. Anybody hear this?
Of course there were AN's a hundred years ago. Even my neurosurgeon said she she thinks there has been an increase in AN's in recent years. There has been an increase in cancer why not brain tumors? Cancer has always been around too.
Sandy
*blows kiss to Sandy* :-*
Sandy, interesting point brought up. I do know from my own experience.... when we lost my sister back in 1969, there were also cases of diagnosed cancers and lupus on the street we lived on in my home town (a short street with only 15 houses total - 8 one side, 7 other side). We had come to find out that there was some toxic dumping approx 1 mile away from the house and there is a river that flows through the area of the dumping. Now, many of us in the family, as well as those that lived on that street (that we remain in contact) have discussed about the chance of the toxic dumping and could it have been a direct affect to the illnesses (we had my sister's malignant childhood astrocytoma, 3 cases of lupus, including my baby sister, next door neighbor and another neighbor 3 houses up the street, 2 breast cancers and my pancreatic, but we believe that is heredity from my grandfather).ÂÂ
From my understanding of AN's, although the research I have read on it does not (at this time) show any environmental influence of their growths, I have read about the chance of a genetic link... as I think others here have mentioned it as well. So, could it be that for AN's, many ancestors or somewhere in the blood line, family members may have had them and never knew it? Makes sense, for me, as my maternal grandmother had issues with unbelievable tinnitus, balance, etc but was never diagnosed as such.
Thoughts?
Phyl
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Hey Phyl and everyone - Maybe it's Massachusetts!! Having lived here almost 60 (not for nine more days) years - more than half on Cape Cod (which they are doing research on the upper Cape - near Otis ANG), both my husband and I have benign brain tumors - his was a meningioma which had to be removed and I'm still waiting and watching on my 9th cranial nerve schwannoma. On top of that, myself and two neighbors have had breast cancer and one had colon cancer. There may be more but I've lost track of some of the people in the neighborhood. I'm sure there's a genetic predisposition but I am wondering more and more about environmental factors.
Sheryl
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I have doubts about the noise and cell phone theories. I went to a few concerts while in college, and I listen to loud music occasionally. I hardly ever use a cell phone. I think if the noise and cell phone theories were true there were be so many cases that it would be more like 1 in a 100 instead of 1 in 100,000 cases. Just my opinion. I agree that living is hazardous to one's health. It would be nice to know what is going on, though, that causes this thing to appear. With all of the advances in medicine, I have no doubts that one day we will know. Hopefully it will lead to prevention. I have a small AN (5mm x 4mm) and so far I am watch and wait. No growth shown in second MRI. I feel blessed so far, but I am still fairly young (47), and I know there is the possibility that it will grow. Have decided not to worry about it for now, but sometimes it is hard. Always on my mind literally! Best wishes to all of you who are dealing with surgery, radiation and watch and wait issues. Nancy
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Hello all you "Adorable Newbies," (new definition of AN)
Studies.....We can compare notes and do our own conclusion. You know........one day "coffee" is listed as bad for everyone and then the day after report is that it is good for you. (everything in moderation, you know) Big Sigh! For what it is worth, I was born and lived very near the Burbank, CA. airport until my nineteeth birthday. I left at night and never to return. I would like to know why I have this darn thing, other than that I have always been extremely healthy. (knock on wood) This thing is the "pits" with so many symptoms. (extra large brain tumor) Everyone has my sympathy, for sure.
Good luck to all of you,
Palace
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PS
I grew up across the street from "high-volocity" radiation, I suppose. There was a huge empty lot with high voltage towers; nineteen years living there!
Palace
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Oh well, strong coffee is scary too. Maybe sugar and strong coffee can cause tumors. The news changes every single week. Oh, this is good for you and that isn't. We need to do things in moderation. I still wonder what gave me this AN thing. It drives me crazy that I don't know why I have it. (soon to be zapped, on the 29th, 30th of Nov. and Dec. 1st.
HAPPY NEW YEAR FOR US ALL COMING SOON,
Palace
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My new PCP (I need one now to facilitate local on-going monitoring of AN with Stanford as remote) said it could be modern day "discovery bias". I think that was the term he used? Meaning more means (MRI, CT, etc.) to "discover" or identify diseases whereas years ago patients had them but might not know what they were or died of. My Stanford doctors, new PCP and many others do not think cell phone is the culprit.
Mary
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There are a number of posts on this site that attempted to find a "common cause" but I think that as with the current array of research being done, it is likely to be caused by any one of a number of factors.
cell phones (analogue not digital)
loud noise
bad gene /s
Exposure to microwaves,
etc
I don't think that we will ever get to the crux of the matter in our lifetime unfortunately.
laz
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I have been a Flight attendant for 18 years. Need I say more?
I believe ALL my ear problems stem from engine noise and pressure changes. Radiation is the big culprit. Lots of ratiation on those airplanes!
Flight attendants have a high rate among them for uterine, breast and thyroid cancer. Prostate and brain cancer is common among pilots. I just had my thyroid removed. My endocrinologist believes it was a result of radiation exposure. Wouldn't be surprised if radiation is now the root to many health problems. Some studies have been done which indicate that the radiation from Chernobyl is just reaching us now...20 years later. Hmmmm?
ingy
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I have been a Flight attendant for 18 years. Need I say more?
I believe ALL my ear problems stem from engine noise and pressure changes. Radiation is the big culprit. Lots of ratiation on those airplanes!
Flight attendants have a high rate among them for uterine, breast and thyroid cancer. Prostate and brain cancer is common among pilots. I just had my thyroid removed. My endocrinologist believes it was a result of radiation exposure. Wouldn't be surprised if radiation is now the root to many health problems. Some studies have been done which indicate that the radiation from Chernobyl is just reaching us now...20 years later. Hmmmm?
ingy
Hi 'Ingy'...
You have my sincere sympathy re your health problems particularly if your occupation has been a major contributory factor.
Are you aware of whether the unions and other organisations representing the interests of airline personnel and indeed the interests of airline passengers have any data, statistics and evidence to support what you are indicating?
Just wondered how people like me, with a diagnosed 2cm AN, who very rarely use air transport and who do not knowingly come into contact with radiation, also end up with an acoustic neuroma?
Regards
Derek
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Hi Derek,
Many years ago, our Canadian government and military started a study on the amounts of radiation on an airplane. Several flight attendanta and pilots were to carry a small glass vial of liquid. The more bubbles present in the liquid the higher the radiation. This study went on for I think about 3 months and then abruptly stopped. The only results we (Flight attendant) were told of by the company was that the results found that levels were higher at the window seat, Cockpit (directly behing the satallite dish in the nose), and at high altitudes. High level routes were Hong Kong and other northern routes. Our union at the time told us that the study was discontinued because the levels were found to be far too high and the cost to the airline industry would be incredible. The actual levels were never published.
What does that tell ya? Let me just say that the only good thing about flying is that it gets you from one point to another fast. That's it.
http://www.pparc.ac.uk/Nw/Aircraft.asp I just found this. I didn't read all of it, but this is along the same lines of what we did on our aircraft.
http://dwarmstr.blogspot.com/2006/04/airplane-radiation-graph-with-geiger.html
one more edit...
I had gotten my hearing checked several times during my career. Way back when, it showed I already had a reduction in my hearing. Would I try to get compensation for my hearing loss? Probobly not. I could never prove that it was caused by flying. However, I believe it was.
ingy
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Hi Ingy,
I was reading the exchange between you and Derek re: radiation risk associated flying. I had always been aware that the levels of exposure were higher at altitude, but not significantly above the amount of Rads given in an X ray. Obviously constant exposure such as a pilot or flight attendant receives is worthy of study. The second link of the UK study with Virgin Airlines was dated 2000, since that was 7 years ago I assume that it was finished. Do you know where we can find the results of that research?
Of more significant interest would be support of your claims that people working in airplanes have a dramatically higher incidence of different types of cancer. A study of the exposure levels is not very meaningful to me unless that translates into a undesirable outcome, i.e. increased illness. This would be a standard epidemological study that if there were suspicions or theories I would expect any one of a number of health agency's in the world ( NIH in the US) or teaching medical centers would have explored this issue at some point. My caution is that we should be able to document a higher incidence of occurrence in a specific population before making claims of what a cuase might be.
This has certainly peaked my curiosity since I am a frequent flyer and certainly don't want to have anything generate a reoccurrence of my AN. I also don't consider my self naive and recognize there are "agendas" in the world, but I think Oliver Stone style conspiracy allegations rarely play out. So while I certainly would in no way challenge the reality of this issue as a health risk I would look at it in the same light I consider the "cell phone causes AN's " debate, which is until you can demonstrate an increase in the number of AN's diagnosed to begin with ( which I haven't seen a study to support) how can one start assigning causal factors.
That would be my two cents, but I'll certainly see if I can find some research out there that would be definitive on this issue.
Mark
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OK, here are some links that may be of some use to the "risk of radiation exposure in flying" discussion. Because inquiring minds want to know ;D
The last one is the most relevant. At a minimum , it would be very inaccurate to say this issue hasn't been studied by a lot of different folks
mark
http://www.iswap.org/InflightRadiation.htm
http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/COSPAR04/00878/COSPAR04-A-00878.pdf
http://www.jlab.org/div_dept/train/rad_guide/effects.html
http://www.hpa.org.uk/publications/HPM/summer_2006.pdf
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:D8FDAWrBsb8J:www.hpa.org.uk/publications/HPM/summer_2006.pdf+radiation+exposure+from+flying+causing+health+outcomes&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=22&gl=us
This might be the most useful
http://www.aviation-health.com/news/browse.php?load=ors.htm
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Mark,
I certainly wasn't trying to make a claim towards one theory or another. My experience with this "inflight study" was 15 yrs ago.
The issue hadn't come up again until my doctor recently mentioned it to me when I had my thyroid removed. I doubt a study has been done on occurance rates of cancer with crew, I don't know. It sure would be interesting. All I know is that I feel 100% better since I hung up my wings.
Whether an AN can develop from engine noise...who knows?
ingy
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Hi Ingy,
I thought the issue you raised was very relevant and not one I had considered previously and while I would have no where near the exposure you have had as a flight attendant, I do fly more than most people so I thought it was worth pursuing. I posted the links to provide some credible studies to the question as I am never comfortable with blanket assumptions about this causes that without them.
If you looked at the last link I posted from Aviation Health there are references to about 10 studies on the subject including a couple from Air Canada which may be the one you were referencing. In general the consensus is that a) it is an issue that needs continued study b) there might be some statistical risk of increased skin and breast cancers, but not clear and c) more recent studies suggest little to no statistical increase over general population rates of occurrence. So, there are clearly some differences of opinion that make it a issue worth consideration and I appreciate you're raising it.
Cancer issue aside, I definitely feel better when I get out of a plane in every aspect, so I totally agree with that :D
Mark